what is the percussive instrument used in indian music?

[jcn37203]

I'm sorry if "indian music" isn't the right phrase, but I don't know what else to call it.

 

Music from India.

 

Anyway, it sounds cool as hell, like some kind of drum, but it kind of sounds like water dripping or something.

 

What is that?

[GPD]

tabla

[ginnboonmiller]

You're thinking of tabla. It's actually a couple drums. The water-dripping sound is all technique -- the drums have really loose heads, and a thick spot, and you can get an insane number of different sounds from how you tap it and how much pressure you apply with the palm of the hand.

 

[jcn37203]

Originally posted by GPD tabla

 

What, no pics?

 

I gotta go do my own leg work?

 

Sheez.

 

 

Thanks.

[ginnboonmiller]

Originally posted by jcn37203 What, no pics? I gotta go do my own leg work? Sheez. Thanks.

 

Hmph.

[jcn37203]

You know, the funny thing is that I always just unthinkingly assumed the dripping sound was some kind of effect or something.

 

Then I thought, wait, that can't be right...

[GPD]

Check out Zakir Hussain for tabla mastery.

 

I recommend "Tabla Beat Science". The live album is incredible.

[tim gueguen]

A skilled tabla player can move his fingers at amazing speeds. I saw a clip of Trichy Shankaran a while back giving a demonstration of the complex rhythms he could play, and his fingers just raced across the heads.

[riffdaddy]

The tabla is a regional thing. There's another drum used in its place in other parts of India, but the name escapes me right now.

[puretube]

drums on Mutron

(or: Tube Zipper...)

[fernmeister]

the tabla is primary associated with northern indian classical music. however, you also have a different tradition, called carnatic music, which comes from the south and in that the main percussion instruments are the mridangam, which is a double-sided drum and the ghatam, which is clay pot. although tabla-driven music is great, I personally prefer the percussion sounds of carnatic music.

 

the find drumming of tabla players is simply breath-taking. i've had the chance to play with a couple and it is pretty daunting really. i'm out of my league with this music.

[telepaul]

I saw a Sarod concert last night that featured tabla as well. Indian classical music is amazing. Everything was in the key of D and the tablas were tuned to the same key center as the Sarod. I believe many of the sounds created on the tabla have a phonetic context. (Sanskrit or Hindi Fern? Or does it matter?) The concept of music as means to spiritual evolvement. Mind blowing stuff I saw last night.

[fernmeister]

 

Originally posted by telepaul the sounds created on the tabla have a phonetic context. (Sanskrit or Hindi Fern? Or does it matter?)

 

 

yes, and it is Hindi. it is an important difference and different language as well as culture is part of the reason for the two traditions (hindustani and carnatic).

[threm]

Originally posted by ginnboonmiller You're thinking of tabla. It's actually a couple drums. The water-dripping sound is all technique -- the drums have really loose heads, and a thick spot, and you can get an insane number of different sounds from how you tap it and how much pressure you apply with the palm of the hand.

Only the bass (left) drum has a loose head. The skin of the solo (right) drum is very tight, depending on pitch used though.

 

If you look at the pic of Alla Rakha, grandfather of Indian tabla, you see the position of the left hand. By pushing down the skin with the lower part of the hand while tapping with the fingers you can go up and down in pitch, stepwise or sliding, several notes.

The fingers of the right hand, moving sideways and down, do the "water dripping" thing. Often heard in the part of a raga where th solo instrument withdraws for a while and the table takes over.

 

[IndofunkCity]

Hi.

 

Sorry to do this, but I must correct some of the information in this thread so far.

 

As you know, there 2 very different styles of classical music in India. North Indian (Hindustani) and South Indian (Karnatik). Although very similar at many levels and I daresay very difficult for the uninitiated to distinguish, there are many differences, one of the most obvious ones being the instruments used.

 

As has been mentioned, tabla is the main percussion instrument in Hindustani music. In fact, North Indians don't really use any supporting percussion. In contrast, in the South it's pretty rare to see a concert with just one percussion instrument. The main South Indian drum is the mridhangam. There's a whole host of supporting percussion, like the ghatam (clay pot), morsing (jaw harp), kanjira (small tambourine), and vocals (konakkol).

 

On the subject of vocal percussion, which is part of the pedagogary in both North and South Indian drumming, it's exactly analagous to jazz scat. They are nonsense syllables, so to answer whoever's question, it's not Hindi or Sanskrit or any of the other 50 official languages in India. In the North there are specific syllables, or bols, that correspond to each stroke on the tabla (eg, "dha" = index finger on the edge of the high drum + middle finger in the middle of the low drum, etc), whereas in the South, there's no syllable-to-stroke correlation.

[Vince]

The best Tabla playing I've seen, was an Aziz Ibrahim (ex stone roses and Ian Brown www.aziz.co.uk) solo gig and for the warm up he did some songs on an acoustic guitar with a Tabla player. He pulled the jack plug out and then proceeded to play some wicked Jungle (rave/dance whatever) music tapping the end of the jack plug on his guitar and changing the pitch using a whammy pedal. The Tabla player did the rest and it sounded really really cool!

[do art]

The mridangam is south India's drum. It has great tone too.

 

[telepaul]

 

Originally posted by IndofunkCity Hi. Sorry to do this, but I must correct some of the information in this thread so far. As you know, there 2 very different styles of classical music in India. North Indian (Hindustani) and South Indian (Karnatik). Although very similar at many levels and I daresay very difficult for the uninitiated to distinguish, there are many differences, one of the most obvious ones being the instruments used. As has been mentioned, tabla is the main percussion instrument in Hindustani music. In fact, North Indians don't really use any supporting percussion. In contrast, in the South it's pretty rare to see a concert with just one percussion instrument. The main South Indian drum is the mridhangam. There's a whole host of supporting percussion, like the ghatam (clay pot), morsing (jaw harp), kanjira (small tambourine), and vocals (konakkol). On the subject of vocal percussion, which is part of the pedagogary in both North and South Indian drumming, it's exactly analagous to jazz scat. They are nonsense syllables, so to answer whoever's question, it's not Hindi or Sanskrit or any of the other 50 official languages in India. In the North there are specific syllables, or bols, that correspond to each stroke on the tabla (eg, "dha" = index finger on the edge of the high drum + middle finger in the middle of the low drum, etc), whereas in the South, there's no syllable-to-stroke correlation.

 

 

You obviously know a lot more about this then I but I don't see a specific syllable to stroke correlation being analogous to jazz scat at all. Seems like the vocabulary for the tabla would be a lot more rigid. Maybe I'm missing something; would you mind clarifying with regard to the Northern Classical style? Are you just making the analogy with regard to the nonsense syllables? I'm not bustin' your balls; I'm just genuinely intrested and you seem to know.

 

 

I was trying to find the "one of ten" and the "one of sixteen" btw in a couple of the pieces and I was definitly feeling very gringo trying to do so...

 

The sarod master I saw was Brij Narayan btw. Homeboy started off with a mellow evening raga but was straight up shredding in the key of D at the end of the night for sure.....Seemed like the first half stayed on what we would think of as D Major with all the sliding and microtones of course. Absolutely no flat fives or dominant sevens, flat threes though....The second half seemed to be in what we would think of as D Minor; D harmonic minor at times.....I heard the notes and intervals but I sure wasn't gettin the time once they got going and picked things up.....

[fernmeister]

i don't think Bols is analogous to Jazz Scat at all. however, there might be a better analogy if we compare it to solfege.

 

also, since we are all trying to be accurate, there are not 50 official languages in india. there are two official languages, Hindi and then English is an Associate Official Language. then there is a list of 22 Scheduled Official Languages (including Hindi) which was recently grown from the original list of 16, for the purporses of the dual language system. of course there are many more languages and significant regional dialects of scheduled languages, but these are not official lanaguages in any meaningful sense.

[IndofunkCity]

Originally posted by fernmeister also, since we are all trying to be accurate, there are not 50 official languages in india. there are two official languages, Hindi and then English is an Associate Official Language. then there is a list of 22 Scheduled Official Languages (including Hindi) which was recently grown from the original list of 16, for the purporses of the dual language system. of course there are many more languages and significant regional dialects of scheduled languages, but these are not official lanaguages in any meaningful sense.

Me = PWN3D!!!

 

Yes, there are only 22 official languages. I've gotten so used to exaggerating for effect that I no longer quote the real number.

 

22.

 

22.

 

22!

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks.

[IndofunkCity]

Originally posted by telepaul I don't see a specific syllable to stroke correlation being analogous to jazz scat at all. Seems like the vocabulary for the tabla would be a lot more rigid. Maybe I'm missing something; would you mind clarifying with regard to the Northern Classical style? Are you just making the analogy with regard to the nonsense syllables?

 

Originally posted by fernmeister i don't think Bols is analogous to Jazz Scat at all. however, there might be a better analogy if we compare it to solfege.

 

Me = Pwn3d twice!

 

Ok, let me explain what I meant. And your take may be different.

 

Bols and konakkol use nonsense syllables. "Dha" has no meaning in any Indian language that I know of. In fact, it's just a letter. Same with most other bols.

 

The difference is that North Indian bols are, as telepaul says, "rigid" and defined. As I said in my previous post, each syllable is strictly defined to mean a specific stroke. If I say "dha" to a tabalchi, he or she knows exactly what sound should emanate from the tabla, and exactly how to produce that sound. The solfege analogy is certainly more valid in this case.

 

South Indian konakkol, OTOH, does not make a one-to-one correspondence between syllable and drum technique. Perhaps this is because there are so many different percussion instruments that you can't have exact maps for each syllable onto all of them. But whatever the reason, if I say "dha" to a mridhangam player, kanjira player, ghatam player, etc, all they will do is hit the damn drum. A specific teacher may always use "dha" to mean a specific stroke on the mridhangam, but AFAIK, there's no regimented codified solfege system in the South.

 

*whew* Hopefully I won't be pwned anymore

[IndofunkCity]

Mridhangam:

 

 

Ghatam. The best players have a big pot belly, which they stick into the mouth of the pot, so by sucking their belly in and out, they can create the "water dropping" sounds that someone mentioned earlier "Lesser" players (j/k) who don't have large bellies need to use their hand

 

 

kanjira (made with snakeskin):

 

 

Morsing:

 

 

The following are used mostly in Malayalam (state of Kerala) religious functions.

 

Chenda:

 

 

Edakka:

 

 

And since we're talking religious drums, here's a more common religious drum, the thavil, used in South Indian temples outside of Kerala:

 

[telepaul]

Originally posted by IndofunkCity Me = Pwn3d twice! Ok, let me explain what I meant. And your take may be different. Bols and konakkol use nonsense syllables. "Dha" has no meaning in any Indian language that I know of. In fact, it's just a letter. Same with most other bols. The difference is that North Indian bols are, as telepaul says, "rigid" and defined. As I said in my previous post, each syllable is strictly defined to mean a specific stroke. If I say "dha" to a tabalchi, he or she knows exactly what sound should emanate from the tabla, and exactly how to produce that sound. The solfege analogy is certainly more valid in this case. South Indian konakkol, OTOH, does not make a one-to-one correspondence between syllable and drum technique. Perhaps this is because there are so many different percussion instruments that you can't have exact maps for each syllable onto all of them. But whatever the reason, if I say "dha" to a mridhangam player, kanjira player, ghatam player, etc, all they will do is hit the damn drum. A specific teacher may always use "dha" to mean a specific stroke on the mridhangam, but AFAIK, there's no regimented codified solfege system in the South. *whew* Hopefully I won't be pwned anymore

 

Cool. Thanks! I'll have to pick up some recordings of these North vs. South traditions and listen for the differences; I find this music beautiful and......obviously exotic to my gringo ears and musical sensibilities...Reason I was asking about meaning in the syllables is because of the belief in certain circles that the SOUNDS of Sanskrit as a sacred language (as opposed to a survival language like English) are profound in and of themselves....

 

Also I missed what "solfege" or "solfege system" is?

[gappie]

interesting thread.

 

does somebody know if there are books about konakkol available?

[fernmeister]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solfege