Members papamaverick Posted October 27, 2005 Members Share Posted October 27, 2005 You have GOT to try clipping the C10 capacitor (bright cap) on your vibrato input. I'd read about it here and on musictoyz forum and then after some back and forth decided to give it a go. The bright cap basically maintains the same amount of high frequency (guessing 8k and up from the sound) regardless of where the volume knob is at. Therefore, if you play the amp at 8-10, the capacitor will have next to no effect. If you play the amp at 2-5, however, your signal will have a disproportionate amount of high frequency content. I like to call this "fizz" - and it is especially noticable on dirt pedals. Clipping that capacitor adds balls to the signal at low (clean) volumes. I have a bunch of dirt pedals that I use, and the ones that I set for moderate to heavy distortion (rat, blues driver, big muff, etc) were really helped. Still not sure you want to do it? There's a simple way to find out. Do an A/B test between the "Normal" side (where there is no bright cap) and the "Vibrato" side (where there is one). Make sure there's no reverb or tremolo. If you like the "Normal" side better, and want the reverb/trem, then you'll want to do this mod. Here is a link that has some more information. INSTRUCTIONS (for the reissue):It's a pretty simple mod to do if you've ever tinkered before, you don't really need any tools besides a screwdriver, pliers, and wire cutter. First you'll need to pull out the chassis that holds all the tubes, electronics, etc. There are i think 7 screws (4 top, 3 back) that hold that chassis in place. Unscrew those, unscrew the power cord restrainer (on the side of the cabinet, only if it gets in your way), and disconnect the speaker, reverb, and footswitch. This will allow you to put the chassis up on a desk or somewhere that you can work better. Be careful, though, not to touch any of the electrical components, as there can be some pretty high voltages lying around. The chassis itself and the circuit boards are both safe for your hands, as they're grounded (provided you leave the power cord plugged in). Now you'll need to take all the knobs off the front panel (volume, treble, bass, reverb, etc). These each have a screw-tightener that will need to be loosed (just a half-turn will do) and they'll pop right off. Underneath the knobs (and on the input jacks) are some washers that you'll need to twist off (pliers help). Take these off as well. The C10 capacitor is located on the printed circuit board (green one) that is connected to all the knobs. In order to get to the cap, you'll need to partially remove the printed circuit board. Be careful not to bend it very far, and also be careful not to yank out the bias leads (three leads from the main board are plastic-tied to the circuit board on their way to the bias adjuster knob). Once you get in a position to look at the components on the circuit board, find C10. (You might need a lamp or flashlight to light the area up). It should be located between the "Vibrato Input 2" jack and the volume knob. Once you've found C10 (it's labeled), simply clip one side. If you ever want to undo the mod, it's reasonably simple to solder the lead back. Not comfortable doing all this yourself? Find an amp tech/electrician/electrical engineer that you trust, bring them the chassis, and have them do it for you. If you do the work to remove the chassis, take off the knobs and washers, etc. then it won't take them more than 5 minutes and they won't be able to charge you very much at all. Hope someone out there enjoyed this.Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarcapo Posted October 27, 2005 Members Share Posted October 27, 2005 Why wouldn't you just turn down the trebel when playing at lower volumes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members papamaverick Posted October 27, 2005 Author Members Share Posted October 27, 2005 Turning down the treble will affect a different range of frequencies. To my ears, the treble on the deluxe primarily affects 4-6 kHz or so... The bright cap lets "presence" frequencies pass (8-12kHz). These are ironically the very frequencies that many mixers will cut ruthlessly on recordings of dirt guitar. To my ears, removing the bright cap lets the amp sound as it should at all frequencies. On most larger Fender amps, the bright cap is there in the form of a bright switch; on the Deluxe, it's switched "On" all the time. Your mileage may vary, but that's why it's so nice to A/B the Normal and Vibrato channel before you do it. It gives a great sneak preview Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Great Waldo Pepper Posted October 27, 2005 Members Share Posted October 27, 2005 Originally posted by papamaverick Turning down the treble will affect a different range of frequencies. To my ears, the treble on the deluxe primarily affects 4-6 kHz or so...The bright cap lets "presence" frequencies pass (8-12kHz). These are ironically the very frequencies that many mixers will cut ruthlessly on recordings of dirt guitar.To my ears, removing the bright cap lets the amp sound as it should at all frequencies. On most larger Fender amps, the bright cap is there in the form of a bright switch; on the Deluxe, it's switched "On" all the time.Your mileage may vary, but that's why it's so nice to A/B the Normal and Vibrato channel before you do it. It gives a great sneak preview Tis true. If you wanna have the option for treble bleed switch called "Bright" on Fender amps then you don't wanna clip the cap out. You could use the 47pF cap and a push/pull pot on the volume to get a cosmetically perfect mod. Generally, folks never go back to BRIGHT settings once they go without for a short while. I am glad folks are still into the Deluxe Reverb RI. Inspite of it's short comings off the line I do think this is the best Fender RI all around. Sure you could benefit greatly from a new speaker etc. But I think the newer ones shipped with a better one anyhow. Now if only I could find a reliable 6V6! I am using 6L6's in mine now cause I am sick of EH 6V6's failing for no good reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members papamaverick Posted October 27, 2005 Author Members Share Posted October 27, 2005 Originally posted by catalinbread Tis true. If you wanna have the option for treble bleed switch called "Bright" on Fender amps then you don't wanna clip the cap out. You could use the 47pF cap and a push/pull pot on the volume to get a cosmetically perfect mod. Great idea! For me, however... Originally posted by catalinbread Generally, folks never go back to BRIGHT settings once they go without for a short while. I have the feeling this will be the case. It's like an old studio mixing trick...when you find yourself constantly turning up treble, take a 30sec break. Silence. Now listen again...and a whole different perception! After listening to reasonably loud sources for a while, our ears will almost always crave for that extra presence, even if it (in reality) sounds worse. At least that's my experience. Originally posted by catalinbread I am glad folks are still into the Deluxe Reverb RI. Inspite of it's short comings off the line I do think this is the best Fender RI all around. Sure you could benefit greatly from a new speaker etc. But I think the newer ones shipped with a better one anyhow. I put a Weber in mine. Very happy with it. Originally posted by catalinbread Now if only I could find a reliable 6V6! I am using 6L6's in mine now cause I am sick of EH 6V6's failing for no good reason. Try some JJ 6v6s, talk to Bob at Eurotubes...I just took out my EHs last night and rebiased and it was a pretty remarkable difference. The response, sound, etc is just so much more...solid. And Bob is a stand-up guy. By the way, I've heard rumors that 6L6s running in a 6V6 amp can be very bad news for the transformer. You might want to do a search on this, or ask Bob when/if you talk to him. No first hand experience, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hookstrapped Posted October 27, 2005 Members Share Posted October 27, 2005 Originally posted by catalinbread Now if only I could find a reliable 6V6! I am using 6L6's in mine now cause I am sick of EH 6V6's failing for no good reason. Brimar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Great Waldo Pepper Posted October 27, 2005 Members Share Posted October 27, 2005 Originally posted by papamaverick By the way, I've heard rumors that 6L6s running in a 6V6 amp can be very bad news for the transformer. You might want to do a search on this, or ask Bob when/if you talk to him. No first hand experience, though. I am pretty sure the transformers used in the RI's are as beefy as the originals. Fenders are notorously eager to please. I've run my old Super Reverb without speakers accidentally for nearly a minute. Plugged them back in and she worked great. My Champ is the same. I plugged my bass into it with a booster LOUD, the 6V6 died taking the $0.25 cathode cap with it. I was nearly certain I blew the speaker. NOPE, just that tube and the cap. Granted these are stupid mistakes on my part, but if they were done to a Marshall I would have had to spend some real bucks getting them back up and running. Anyway, the Svet 6L6's I have in there do a great job and have treated me well for 6 months. I don't worry too much since the transformers in the 'lil beast are only $50 at most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members papa taco Posted October 27, 2005 Members Share Posted October 27, 2005 Is this the RI you're talkin bout willis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Great Waldo Pepper Posted October 27, 2005 Members Share Posted October 27, 2005 Originally posted by papa taco Is this the RI you're talkin bout willis? Me? Deluxe RI yes other amps mentioned no. Taco you have a Z-28 correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mikoo69 Posted October 27, 2005 Members Share Posted October 27, 2005 on my origianl 1965, there is a capacitor right on the volume pot when you open the chasis....it isnt hidden and no circuit board needs to be removed...is this the cap i wanna clip?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members skipstar59 Posted October 28, 2005 Members Share Posted October 28, 2005 Originally posted by Mikoo69 on my origianl 1965, there is a capacitor right on the volume pot when you open the chasis....it isnt hidden and no circuit board needs to be removed...is this the cap i wanna clip?? Yea Mikoo69, that is the cap you want to clip or as I did, unsolder it and pull the cap back away from the volume pot so as not to touch it. I did this to my 72' which was modded to 65' specs. I first modded it to exact Blackface specs and it still sounded fuzzy and tinny until I did the cap mod. It made all the difference with my OD's, which alot of them sounded thin even when cutting back treble on the pedals. I still have all the treble I need for my tastes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Gainster Posted October 28, 2005 Members Share Posted October 28, 2005 Hey Skip....good to see ya around again. Missed talking with you. How's the studio? PS: Slap a JBL K120 in that Deluxe.....!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BillyK Posted October 28, 2005 Members Share Posted October 28, 2005 I've got a mint '67 blackface DR and my amp tech (Pete Cage)suggested a couple of years back that I try it without the bright cap. That's a great idea to compare the Normal and Vib channels with your pedals. Thanks for the idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chriss Posted October 28, 2005 Members Share Posted October 28, 2005 I had that mod and a few others done on my DRRI by amp genius Blackie Pagano at Tubesville here in NYC. Sounds beautiful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members papamaverick Posted October 28, 2005 Author Members Share Posted October 28, 2005 Bump for the friday crowd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mikoo69 Posted October 29, 2005 Members Share Posted October 29, 2005 bump for the saturday crowd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wacopacco Posted October 29, 2005 Members Share Posted October 29, 2005 i thought about doing that, but i just use the normal channel anyways. i'd rather not {censored} with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members converge Posted October 29, 2005 Members Share Posted October 29, 2005 Originally posted by catalinbread Tis true. If you wanna have the option for treble bleed switch called "Bright" on Fender amps then you don't wanna clip the cap out. You could use the 47pF cap and a push/pull pot on the volume to get a cosmetically perfect mod. Generally, folks never go back to BRIGHT settings once they go without for a short while.I am glad folks are still into the Deluxe Reverb RI. Inspite of it's short comings off the line I do think this is the best Fender RI all around. Sure you could benefit greatly from a new speaker etc. But I think the newer ones shipped with a better one anyhow.Now if only I could find a reliable 6V6! I am using 6L6's in mine now cause I am sick of EH 6V6's failing for no good reason. the newer jj 6v6s are built like brick {censored}houses and sound great, too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarcapo Posted October 30, 2005 Members Share Posted October 30, 2005 I kind of like the idea of having it both ways with the normal side different than the vibrato side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members papa taco Posted October 31, 2005 Members Share Posted October 31, 2005 Originally posted by catalinbread Me? Deluxe RI yes other amps mentioned no. Taco you have a Z-28 correct? Si senor. I love the Z28. I think it would make beautiful tone babies with your sagrado poblano, senor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hookstrapped Posted October 31, 2005 Members Share Posted October 31, 2005 I was going to do all that after reading about it on the FDP, but before I went to all that trouble I talked to Mike at KCA tubes and he suggested some NOS RCA 12AX7 tubes for the Vibrato channel. With those tubes installed, it became almost as warm as the Normal channel.I, too, used to just use the Normal channel and hid my shame, but the crappy preamp tubes that come with the DRRI are a big part of the icepick problem. Add some Brimar 6V6 tubes and I haven't looked back.I've gained newfound appreciation for my DRRI with my GVCG Esquire. And gotta have that touch of reverb! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members papa taco Posted October 31, 2005 Members Share Posted October 31, 2005 I've got Brimars in my z28 too! Nice tube, mang. taco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wacopacco Posted October 31, 2005 Members Share Posted October 31, 2005 Originally posted by hookstrapped I was going to do all that after reading about it on the FDP, but before I went to all that trouble I talked to Mike at KCA tubes and he suggested some NOS RCA 12AX7 tubes for the Vibrato channel. With those tubes installed, it became almost as warm as the Normal channel. I, too, used to just use the Normal channel and hid my shame, but the crappy preamp tubes that come with the DRRI are a big part of the icepick problem. Add some Brimar 6V6 tubes and I haven't looked back. I've gained newfound appreciation for my DRRI with my GVCG Esquire. And gotta have that touch of reverb! any idea how much and where i can get them? i'm VERY interested in doing that to my drri. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Europa760 Posted November 11, 2005 Members Share Posted November 11, 2005 i just clipped C10. its for real. my pedals sound good through the vibrato channel now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members papamaverick Posted November 14, 2005 Author Members Share Posted November 14, 2005 Originally posted by Europa760 i just clipped C10.its for real.my pedals sound good through the vibrato channel now. Bingo! Enjoy the bliss... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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