Hammond RT20- desirable model?

[pink floyd cramer]

I'm hoping Outkaster or STG will jump in here and enlighten me.

I'm not finding much info on Google, just some specs.

 

AFAIK:

 

RT20 (similar to B2?) has B3 tonewheels, chorus/vibrato and tube circuitry.

 

Has bigger cabinet? More foot pedals and thus is heavier.

 

Does not have: B3 percussion

 

correct me if I'm wrong please

[mate_stubb]

Did you mean RT-2?

 

If so, you are correct. The wider cabinet is to allow space for the 32 note concave radiating pedal board, which is the standard adhered to by AGO (American Guild of Organists).

 

The normal B-3 consoles had a 25 note flat radiating pedalboard.

 

The RT series also had a sort of tube monophonic note generator in addition that had some solo pedal voices.

[pink floyd cramer]

Yes I did mean RT-2:o - thanks mate stubb.

[Outkaster]

Yes the large consoles (RT and D series) are heavy and not big sellers. Hammond wanted to compete in the classical organ market so most these 32 versions were institutionally based. A lot of churches and colleges had them. The bass solovox units are a pain to fix also. Logistically they are a bitch to move:

 

Model RT-2

Production Years: Nov 1949 to Jan 1955

Synopsis: Same as model RT but with controls which provide vibrato on either or both manuals, also additional control for "NORMAL" or "SOFT" overall volume.

Finish: Walnut.

Manuals: Swell and Great, 61 keys each.

Pedals: 32-note radiating, detachable.

Controls: 9 preset keys and 2 sets of 9 adjustable harmonic drawbars for each manual. For pedals, two adjustable drawbars (16' and 8'). One expression pedal controlling swell, great and pedals.

Amp/Output: Internal preamp only.

[pink floyd cramer]

thanks Outkaster (and once again, Mate Stubb)- my local Hammond/Leslie tech tells me also that they are not much in demand (but I bet they sound pretty damn good) He said that if I was curious (which I'm not at this point) I could look at one he has in his shop.

 

First things first- he has my Leslie 760 and says it needs a new horn driver (and a new power cord) =$400 worth of work. The previous owner had replaced the original Jenson driver with a different make that couldn't handle it. Since I only paid $350 for the thing he says I could get my money back out of it if I were to sell it later. At least I got some use out of it before it blew.

[eric]

 

Originally posted by pink floyd cramer thanks Outkaster (and once again, Mate Stubb)- my local Hammond/Leslie tech tells me also that they are not much in demand (but I bet they sound pretty damn good) He said that if I was curious (which I'm not at this point) I could look at one he has in his shop. First things first- he has my Leslie 760 and says it needs a new horn driver (and a new power cord) =$400 worth of work. The previous owner had replaced the original Jenson driver with a different make that couldn't handle it. Since I only paid $350 for the thing he says I could get my money back out of it if I were to sell it later. At least I got some use out of it before it blew.

 

 

I think you may be getting gouged on the Leslie repair quote. $400 for a new horn driver? That is a pretty easy DIY job and you could even get something SWEET like and Atlas PD-60 for way less than this. Not sure what is involved in the new power cord thing, but that may be DIY as well. I would hold off on paying someone that much to do those kinds of repairs.

 

As for the RT-2, it would not be my first choice even if free. Not bad to have in a "never gonna move it again" situation (kind of like my Hammond A-101), but there are plenty of Hammonds out there without you needing to settle on an RT-2.

 

Regards,

Eric

[pink floyd cramer]

The part itself (jenson driver) costs $240- the rest of the $400 is labour and the power supply cord.

[pink floyd cramer]

Probably too late to change the plan- the tech started to work on it last nite. He did mention to me that he has heard leslies with different horn drivers and in his opinion, the original jensons sound better. He is probably not hip to every Hammond/leslie hot-rod being done today, but he is a good tech/repairman and does work for national gospel/blues acts when they pass through here.

 

Maybe a "sweeter" driver might help, but I know it would still be a solid-state Leslie (which IMO still sounds killer with all the bass from the big drum).

[suitandtieguy]

any tech who puts an original jensen in a 760 is an idiot. those things can barely handle the 14 watts a 122 amp throws at them and 760s basicly fry the {censored} out them: that's why it needs to be replaced to begin with.

 

any "tech" who puts a V21 in a 760 either is dumb and doesn't know not to do that, or _wants_ it to fry so you'll come back in a year and have him do it again.

 

also: 760s don't have power cords. they're 9 pin, and get their power from the instrument.

 

have him stop the work and take it to someone who's not a careless asshole, and if he puts up a fight give me his phone number. he's {censored}ing you pretty hard.

[pink floyd cramer]

Thank you STG! I just got in and have not talked to the guy today.

Its ironic that he says the driver blew BECAUSE it was non-stock and couldn't handle it (actually I think I just pushed it too hard on a gig). He didn't say what kind it was.

 

I thought that the Pro-Line series (760, 860, etc) were known for being pretty dependable. King Julian has an 860 and the Real MC has had good luck with his 760- but I would like to hear from more players out there.

 

I will find out tomorrow exactly what Jenson driver the tech wants to use. I don't want to go through this again so STG thanks for the tip- still have a hard time thinking this guy is incompetent but I guess that leaves "grease him up and {censored} him" as his motivation. (BTW the cord in question is the Leslie preamp 9-pin cable that plugs into the 760.)

 

My best bet may be to unload the 760 and use the funds to save towards a 122.

 

[suitandtieguy]

 

Originally posted by pink floyd cramer I will find out tomorrow exactly what Jenson driver the tech wants to use.

 

 

there are a variety of horn drivers to use, ranging from a 30 dollar driver from MCM to the Ham-Sooz ferrofluid driver at 150 bucks.

 

you'll need one of these so you can play around with different drivers:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270028166737

 

the V21 is nice for a 122 in proper working condition but higher power leslies fry the {censored} out of them.

 

122s fry the {censored} out of them too, but the frying takes a lot longer.

 

 

Originally posted by pink floyd cramer (BTW the cord in question is the Leslie preamp 9-pin cable that plugs into the 760.)

 

 

check with this guy: http://www.tonewheelgeneral.com

 

rick really knows his {censored} and has the most comprehensive and easy-to-use ham-les parts catalogue on the internet.

[Outkaster]

 

Originally posted by suitandtieguy there are a variety of horn drivers to use, ranging from a 30 dollar driver from MCM to the Ham-Sooz ferrofluid driver at 150 bucks. you'll need one of these so you can play around with different drivers: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270028166737 the V21 is nice for a 122 in proper working condition but higher power leslies fry the {censored} out of them. 122s fry the {censored} out of them too, but the frying takes a lot longer. check with this guy: http://www.tonewheelgeneral.com rick really knows his {censored} and has the most comprehensive and easy-to-use ham-les parts catalogue on the internet.

 

 

Yeah Ricks list of stuff is amazing. All the top techs have stuff listed there.

[pink floyd cramer]

Thanks for the great site STG. I asked about the issue in question, Rick promptly mailed me back- said the V-21 is somewhat fragile, but would last if I didn't overdrive it. Also said the Atlas PD-60 would last forever, just wouldn't have the original sound (but close). BTW in my Googling I found that Paul Schaefer has a PD-60 in his 122.

 

I am waiting for the Tech Dude to call me back- but am pretty sure that the work was completed late Thurs. nite. He is the only tech around that I know of and travels all over the Southeast, always with about 3 weeks backlog of work- I guess his prices reflect that.. I would not have been afraid to put a horn driver in myself but did not know how to diagnose the problem as the 760 would not make a peep of sound out of the drum ether.

 

I am pretty sure that if you are a vintage gear buff you better

 

A) be independently wealthy or

 

B) be a DIY'er

[pink floyd cramer]

This is intriguing- device to "tubify" a tranistor Leslie

 

http://www.keyboardpartner.de/hammond/lesliemods.htm

[King Julian]

Hi pfc,

That looks really interesting - I'd be really keen to hear any reviews. I recently bought a 122 (definitely keeping the 860 as well) and an XK-3 so any more purchases are out of the question for a while.

John

 

BTW, love your new sig - i reckon it means you're coming up with a lot a definitive solutions to people's problems

[suitandtieguy]

 

Originally posted by pink floyd cramer Also said the Atlas PD-60 would last forever, just wouldn't have the original sound (but close). BTW in my Googling I found that Paul Schaefer has a PD-60 in his 122.

 

 

actually i prefer the PD-60 to the V21. i personally feel that stockstock is over-rated, and i'd rather get a brighter organ sound by messing with the drivers than the amplifier (because if you think about it that really makes more sense anyway).

 

that's cool to know about Paul. the organ sound on The World's Most Dangerous Party is probably the finest organ sound ever.

 

 

btw, yes the V21 will last a long time if you don't over drive it. but why be a {censored}? overdriving your leslie is where all the fun is. you don't play organ to be polite.

[pink floyd cramer]

I think I blew my driver on a gig with 2 wanna-be guitar heroes who were insanely loud. I am pretty much out of that kind of scene now (put myself out to piano bar pasture) but thinking of getting back into the blues clubs where the volume stays reasonable (but healthy).

[eric]

 

Originally posted by pink floyd cramer Thanks for the great site STG. I asked about the issue in question, Rick promptly mailed me back- said the V-21 is somewhat fragile, but would last if I didn't overdrive it. Also said the Atlas PD-60 would last forever, just wouldn't have the original sound (but close). BTW in my Googling I found that Paul Schaefer has a PD-60 in his 122.

 

 

I've been recommending the PD-60 for years and glad to see someone besides me likes it! When I first got my current 122 about 6 years ago, the Jensen driver was fried and I promptly replaced it with the PD-60. Whoa. Feckin' awesome. I will never go back.

 

Regards,

Eric

[pink floyd cramer]

Update: the work has been completed- but instead of the V-21, he installed the Ham-Suz ferro-fluid driver that is in the new Leslies- and which he claims is more rugged than the Atlas PD-60. BTW the blown driver is an Atlas- he will give me the remains.

 

Total bill is $400 but he also oiled the motors and did other maintenance that was long overdue, and got a new 9 pin Leslie preamp cable.

 

BTW the "tubifying" device on the keyboardpartner.de site got a good review here:

 

http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Guitar+Amp/product/Leslie/760+Cabinet/10/1

 

Maybe we will hear more about them.

[eric]

 

Originally posted by pink floyd cramer Update: the work has been completed- but instead of the V-21, he installed the Ham-Suz ferro-fluid driver that is in the new Leslies- and which he claims is more rugged than the Atlas PD-60. BTW the blown driver is an Atlas- he will give me the remains. Total bill is $400 but he also oiled the motors and did other maintenance that was long overdue, and got a new 9 pin Leslie preamp cable. our BTW the "tubifying" device on the keyboardpartner.de site got a good review here: http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Guitar+Amp/product/Leslie/760+Cabinet/10/1 Maybe we will hear more about them.

 

 

Sorry man, but this tech still took the money and ran.

 

I would recommend avoiding him in the future and would be real curious to learn more about what he replaced. Oiling motors is a 5 min job anyone can do and the cable is just a cable. Not to shave your buzz, but just wanted to point out that a lot of this stuff really easy DIY for future reference.

 

Regards,

Eric

[Outkaster]

Here is an auction for one:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/AN-ABSOLUTELY-BEAUTIFUL-HAMMOND-RT-2-ORGAN-SPEAKER_W0QQitemZ250030671393QQihZ015QQcategoryZ64429QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[pink floyd cramer]

To eric:

 

yeah I was {censored}ed. I picked it up today and the bill stated $248 for the Ham-Suz 100 watt ferro-cooled horn driver. AFAIK that could have been bought for $130-$150 (he claimed to have purchased from Ham-Suz directly).. I understand that he would have been entitled to some mark-up but $100?

 

Thinking I will stick to Ham-Suz digital clone stuff, call him up and tell him he won't get any more of my $$ and why. He thinks that Atlas stuff is junk. He has the tech ability and experience but he doesn't know where musicians are coming from because he is not one himself.Thanks for the cold hard truth (STG too).