Members XorAxAx Posted October 5, 2006 Members Share Posted October 5, 2006 I understand where the OP is coming from, and I agree (to a point). If you have the brain cells, training, and time to use a tool like Max, then yeah, it pretty much is the most versatile and capable synth possible. This is IMHO, as I have never seen Max in person and am just making inferences based on what I do know. I am a programmer first -- a kickass programmer who lives and breathes programming. I am an amateur musician second. I will definitely learn Max as some point in the future. I will also learn how to do audio programming. I already have the proper programming and math skills; I just don't know how you actually use those to e.g. build a filter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members simulacreant Posted October 5, 2006 Members Share Posted October 5, 2006 Well, I don't think it's a stupid question.I use Max/MSP, ChucK, and Supercollider to supplement my Nord Modular, Nord G2, and 2 Serge panels. I'm nowhere near as facile with the first three as I am with the latter three, though, but I plan on getting there.Yes, I could technically replace most or all of them, in terms of raw capability, with one of the first three. And I've considered this. But, and this is the crux, neither Max/MSP, ChucK, nor Supercollider satisfy me as immediately and creatively as the Nords and Serge.Sound design on the latter three is usually much faster and more intuitive. But I've persevered with the 'languages' in order to complement my profession-oriented Java training and to provide challenges and terrain for experimentation and education that might be lacking with the other instruments. I've discovered that I'm as much of an amateur musician as I am a professional programmer, a child with his toys, and a restless experimenter.Every 'tool/toy' satisfies a different aspect of my personality, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kooki_sf Posted October 5, 2006 Members Share Posted October 5, 2006 its all in the learning curve. but once you get over that it really is the most powerfull softsynth, and video synth, and midi router, and..and... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members droolmaster0 Posted October 5, 2006 Members Share Posted October 5, 2006 Originally posted by kooki_sf its all in the learning curve. but once you get over that it really is the most powerfull softsynth, and video synth, and midi router, and..and... No, it's not ALL in the learning curve. It is simply faster to program a hands on synth than it is to program a synth from the ground up in csound, or max/msp. How can anyone even begin to argue this point? that of course doesn't mean that there isn't tremendous value in learning how to create synths in these programs, but it isn't the same thing. Obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hyperstationjr Posted October 5, 2006 Members Share Posted October 5, 2006 See I don't think that's necessarily true, at least in Max. I imagine that once you make up all of the building blocks in Max (several oscillators, filter types, modulators and envelops), you could just type in "osc" or "fltr" and it would be there waiting to be patched, just as you would any other modular environment. Sure it wouldn't be as quick as having a Mini in front of you with knobs and some nice speakers, but as far as modular environments go, it would be very close, with a lot more room for variation... infinite really... Obviously you would have to be able to make a lot of that stuff yourself first, but some of it is already made, it would just be a matter of knowing how to do certain basic things, and then building off of what others have done. I think it really does come down to the learning curve... Perhaps also the visuals too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kooki_sf Posted October 5, 2006 Members Share Posted October 5, 2006 you dont reprogram your entire system every time you sit down with max/msp. part of the learning curve is creating your own building blocks (encapsulated objects) to make further maxing much faster. and once you have created said meta-objects, you CAN program them with such greater ease than afforded with your typical {censored}ty interfaced hardware synth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members realtrance Posted October 5, 2006 Members Share Posted October 5, 2006 Ultimately it's about how you want to spend your time, and what you want as results from your efforts.There are people who are happy to just drive a BMW330; there are others who'd rather take a Nissan 240x and tweak it out to be their own custom car.Would you rather spend more time driving, or proving you can make a car that's more suitable to your needs than anything a company with years of experience and expertise could make for you?For me, I like to build upon the expertise around me; exercises in which I prove my mastery of fundamental techniques and theory are fun as exercises, and confidence-building for my sense of knowledge about synthesis, but more often than not, I'm not convinced I'll end up with results that are both unique enough and spectacularly better than what has "already been built" for me -- be it a filter, or an oscillator, or a delay line -- that it's worth spending the time on.Fiddling with all that stuff is mainly for the joy of being a tweakhead; if that's what you enjoy, no reason to get anything that will stop you short, full steam ahead MAX/MSP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mildbill Posted October 6, 2006 Members Share Posted October 6, 2006 Originally posted by kooki_sf you dont reprogram your entire system every time you sit down with max/msp. part of the learning curve is creating your own building blocks (encapsulated objects) to make further maxing much faster. ........................ is there a pool of these building blocks available somewhere? if not, how many years would it take to build the skills to be able to build them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hyperstationjr Posted October 6, 2006 Members Share Posted October 6, 2006 It's for sale actually, I don't have a link, but there are companies who do this, there are also some parts that are user made and available free... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members simulacreant Posted October 6, 2006 Members Share Posted October 6, 2006 yes, you can buy or download (for free) various packages of building blocks that are general or specialized... here are some links. the ARGO set doesn't even require a full version of MaxMSP, just the runtime. a lot of them are CPU intensive, however. Tap.Toolshttp://www.electrotap.com/taptools/ Litter Prohttp://www.bek.no/~pcastine/Litter/ ARGOhttp://perso.orange.fr/Paresys/ARGO/ PeRColatehttp://www.music.columbia.edu/PeRColate/ UBC Max/MSP/Jitter Toolboxhttp://www.opusonemusic.net/muset/toolbox.html RTC Libhttp://www.essl.at/works/rtc.html That's just the (very large) tip of the iceberg... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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