Members bsumpter Posted May 30, 2006 Members Share Posted May 30, 2006 Hello all!!! My band has started gigging pretty seriously this spring, and I'm finding things I don't like w/ my current rig. First some specifics... Amp: B-52 AT-212 (3 channel w/ selectable reverb / efx loop on pedal) Pedalboard: RMC2 Wah, Analogman TS (sometimes), Zoom G2 (in the efx loop), B52 Channel Switcher. My problem is the constant tap-dancing that is required to pull off the tones I want. For instance, I'll start a song w/ the amp clean channel, with the Zoom providing reverb and chorus. The song chrous comes up, and I have to quickly bump the Zoom up to the next channel (reverb only, no chorus), and then get my foot over to the channel switcher for the amp to go dirty. While this is happening under my feet, my right hand is switching the pickup selector from position 4 to position 1, and my left hand is attempting to keep the song going. Maybe I'm just not as talented as many of the guitarists around, but I'm having problems multi-tasking so much in such a short timeframe without screwing up the timing somehow. I'd like to simplify, and somehow set things up to where one button push can do everything I need -- certain effects on clean, certain on dirty, and do the amp channel switching for me. The "hand" part I can handle if I'm not bouncing switches on my board. I'm not opposed to completely changing my pedal rig around. I'm very happy w/ the G2, but if one of the multis with built-in amp switching would solve my problem, I'm game. I'm also game to ditch the multi, go w/ seperate effects and a loooper that can control amp channels. I also have a Behringer 1010 midi controller that may come in useful in my quest for simplicity. I just am unsure which of my many different options will be the best route. Cost is a problem for me. The G Major will do what I want, but it's just out of my budget. I prefer to stay away from rack units, but would do so if it is the only way to keep my costs down. I already have an SKB 3-space rack that I could move things into if needed. How do you guys handle this sort of situation? In my case, what do you all think I should do? All info appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members usa83strat Posted May 30, 2006 Members Share Posted May 30, 2006 well pedal organization helps. i set up my rig so i can do double foot switching simultaniously also got the psm5 as a loop for single foot switching. but for example got so separate od i use one for rhytim and background noodling one for a boosted lead. set them up right next to each other so i can single footed flip them. or turn both on at the same time as needed. got my fuzz set up to whe i can balance on my heal to turn it on while i turn the comp. but i need to change things ups a bit an get use to the new arrqangement. currently my pedal board consists of dirt , comp and wah. it goes like this wah>route 66> ts-9> super overdrive> fuzz> eq and then i have the amps drive and more drive channels. last 2 gigs i whent back to basics, just using the wah an route 66 plus the amp drives. i can get the sounds i need out of the simplified set up. but i find with less dirt to change ups thing i need some modulation, so i looking for a chorus daley and phaser. your other shoise would be a looper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Snare227 Posted May 30, 2006 Members Share Posted May 30, 2006 You might want to look into the Boss ME X. It's discontinued but it has some built in effects like reverb and delay and plenty of swirl effects too... but the cool thing about this pedal board is that you can set it up like a poor mans Ground Control. You can integrate your own pedals into the board and with a single stomp you can change from a super wet swirly clean sound to a dry raunchy distortion and anywhere in between depending on how you set it up with your various stomp boxes, the built in effects, the built in eq, and the amp switching midi capabilities. I have one and used it for years, but have since went to a simple pedal board with only 3 or so pedals. PM me if you can't find any info online about it and I'll be glad to fill you in. They pop up on Ebay from time to time and sound like a reasonably priced option for what you want to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Moltisanti Posted May 30, 2006 Members Share Posted May 30, 2006 i know you said you didn't have a lot of money, but what the hell get the credit card out and get yourself one of these badboys : http://www.tcelectronic.com/Files/Products/G-System/index.html http://www.tcelectronic.com/media/G-System_Perspective.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members english_bob Posted May 30, 2006 Members Share Posted May 30, 2006 One thing to consider while you're waiting for your reorganised rig is how to minimise the problems with your changes. It's not as though ALL of these problems will go away with some new wonder rig anyway.... My number one piece of advice would be to prioritise certain changes over others: audiences won't notice you turning off a "room" or a subtle "hall" reverb, but they WILL notice if you're off with a clean/dirty channel change, especially if your band goes in for Nirvana-style quiet/loud dynamics, same with "special effects". It's a bitch, but it can be done, and it gets easier with practice. Also, the more of your changes you can make subconscious, the better, so PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE. If you use the same guitar all the time, it's not too tough to get used to the feel of the pickup selector without concentrating too hard- for changes from the neck to the bridge pickup and vice versa, a quick swat is more than enough, as long as you have half decent hardware that you can be a little rough with. If you don't have to look at the guitar, you have your full faculties to concentrate on tap dancing. If you don't have to do more than glance at your pedals either, you have your full faculties for bringing the RAWK Consider how much of your effect switching you can do without. If audiences won't notice you turning an effect on or off, is it worth having it on in the first place? Save it for the demo recording. Are you meticulously crafting a different reverb setting for every song when you could just use your amp reverb? Do you even need reverb, or is it adding unnecessary muddiness to your live sound? Think about what you CAN do with what you have. What's the most effective way to use the gear you've already got? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bsumpter Posted May 30, 2006 Author Members Share Posted May 30, 2006 Thanks for all the replies! Lots and lots of good advice here. This is gonna be long -- so I'll warn you now. usa83strat: I've thought of arranging things so I can hit two switches at once, but it is a compromise. I have the ability to kill the entire effects loop from the amp footswitch. I could flip the locations on the amp footswitch for the reverb and effect switches. That would put the efx loop switch right beside the channel switch. This would allow me to just kill the efx loop at the same time I go to my dirty channel. This in effect would turn off the chorus that I would have been previously running while clean (I hate chorus on distortion). The only problem with this approach is I despise the amp's built in reverb, and was hoping to find a solution that would let me utilize the Zoom's reverb, as it is SO much better than the amps. By killing the loop, I kill my chorus, but I also kill my Zoom reverb, which puts me back to the B52 reverb. This will work, and is probably my cheapest option. But its not my ideal solution as it leaves my dirty signal completely dry with no option of efx. Snare227: How are the efx in the ME series? Will I lose the "soul" of my tube amp by going to the Boss efx? I really like the transparency of the Zoom, but I hate that it is so limited w/ control options. The thoguht of a poor-man's ground control is pretty exciting, however. Moltisanti: Oh, how I would love one of those! But I've spent over $2k in the last couple of months on guitars and music toys -- I don't think the wife would agree that I need it so badly! I also need a backup tube amp and a retube kit for the one I have now. So much to buy, so little money! english_bob: I'm sort of using your suggestions now. I will do my channel switch (clean / dirty) and pickup selector first, and then deal w/ the efx switching. Needless to say, the channel and pickup switch happens in a timely fashion, but I'm well into the first chord of the chorus (or verse) before I get my foot over to the efx unit. All the audience should hear is a brief bit of chorus on my dirty's, and a brief moment of dryness on my cleans until I can re-engage the chorus. Not sure if that translates out in the crowd or not, but I can hear it on video recordings my wife made. -------------------------------------------------------------- I primarily play rhythym guitar in this band while our lead player weedle-deedle-dees for the most part. That leaves me with holding down the rhythym backline 90% of the time. I can routinely go from clean to dirty in a song 4 or 5 times before its finished. During my cleans, I like a nice hall reverb, definately some chorus to chime it up a bit, and have been considering a compressor to smooth out the strumming when either adreneline or alcohol takes away a bit of my hand control. For my dirty's, I like a nice hall reverb, and *possibly* a small amount of delay. I rarely run the delay, but it really thickens up the sound and I think it could be useful at times. We have a few songs where we do the old 'call and repeat' type soloing between me and the other guitarist. It would be nice to incorporate the delay in those lead breaks (maybe some boost), and kill it while I hold down rhythym for his section. So if I understand this correctly, here are my options: 1) Relocate switches so things can be turned on/off w/ a single foot press. Not ideal, but will work and is cheap. 2) Get a loooper that can switch amp channels and a few more pedals to split some of the efx out of the Zoom so the looper will work. 3) Get a midi controlled loooper that can do amp switching, rack my pedals, and use my Behringer FCB 1010 to switch. Also requires a few new pedal purchases since the Zoom can't be switched via Midi. 4) Mortgage the house and get the TC Electronics system and be done with the whole problem. Lots to think about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bsumpter Posted May 30, 2006 Author Members Share Posted May 30, 2006 OK, I've been reading. The TC system is nice, but honestly just out of my reach financially right now. Maybe I can move up to this system later. I like the price of simply moving switches and rearranging the board, but in the end I don't think that will be flexible enough for me. About all I can hope to do is engage/re-engage the EFX loop of the amp w/ one stomp. I've narrowed it down to these options: 1) Pedalboard looper or Midi looper. Anyone have any links for decent looopers, or schematics to build such a critter? 2) Multi EFX units that can do amp switching (Boss ME, etc). I prefer one that can do the 4-cable method as well as amp switching. Analog amp switching would be cheaper as I wouldnt have to buy a MIDI switcher for the amp. What multi's have these features? I know the Boss do, but I'm not sure of any others. I want one that can use the 4-cable method as I'd like to use some EFX post and some pre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Snare227 Posted May 30, 2006 Members Share Posted May 30, 2006 Re: Snare227: How are the efx in the ME series? Will I lose the "soul" of my tube amp by going to the Boss efx? I really like the transparency of the Zoom, but I hate that it is so limited w/ control options. The thoguht of a poor-man's ground control is pretty exciting, however. I can't say much for any other Boss multi units... but I can speak specifically for the Boss ME-X. It can be as transparent as you want it to be. You can bypass everything on the board and will lose very little signal, it isn't noticable with my Peavey Classic 50 at all. It sounds exactly like what you're going for though, I'd definately try to dig one up and give it a shot if you can find one. There are some reviews in the Reviews section of this site that might be able to clearly describe the unit. From what I understand it is more like a bunch of analog type units that are out of the loop until they are engaged instead of a big digital sounding computer unit. If you have any questions let me know, I'll be happy to help you out if you decide to go this route. Also I agree with the previous poster who mentioned thinking about the sound from the crowds point of view. Reverb is generally only noticed in three levels.. none... some... and as an over the top swallowing well type effect. I'd concentrate on clean and dirty changes first... then worry about adding effects that layer on top of that because if they come in a beat or so late no one should really notice granted they are being used in small quantities. But then again I've went from a rack setup down to a truckload of pedals... which I then tamed down with the Boss ME X... and now I'm down to the basics. Is my tone as versitile... no. But I was never one to make anyone cream their pants with my playing anyways. Have fun with the tone search. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bsumpter Posted June 1, 2006 Author Members Share Posted June 1, 2006 I figured out a workable solution for now that won't require any money to be spent. It's not what I want exactly, but it did cut down the tap dance routine significantly. I rediscovered that my FCB1010 midi controller also has two analog switching relays in it (I had completely forgotten). I moved my entire pedalboard to the side, hooked up my 3 space rack w/ VAmp pro into the efx loop of the amp, and programmed the pedal to do the channel switching on the amp. Now I can have clean w/ reverb and chorus on patch 1, and distortion w/ reverb on patch 2, etc. One button push changes the channel of the amp as well as the patch on the V-Amp. Now my problem is that I hate the effects on the V-Amp as compared to the Zoom! If only the little Zoom unit was MIDI controllable, it could just sit on my amp in the backline. Oh well ... I'm still keeping the Zoom because it sounds great through my old vintage (1957) Silvertone amplifier. So I guess I'm just going to try to find a good rack mount midi-controllable efx unit. Looking at the G-Major and Rocktron Xpression units now. Beyond my budget for the moment, but I should be able to get them next month. Until then, the V-Amp will have to suffice. Thanks for all the tips! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bsumpter Posted June 9, 2006 Author Members Share Posted June 9, 2006 Hello again! Well I have the rack system working perfectly, and switching is now a one button affair. After living with it for a week or so, and due to another thread here on HC, I'm rethinking things yet again! What I have now: I'm once again considering the Zoom G7. Since I'm packing the FCB 1010 floorboard anyway, I'm thinking I should replace the FCB1010 with the G7. I could use the G7 MIDI out to control the rack efx back at the amp. That only leaves me w/ the channel switching issue. So, see if this would be a good gigging rig: Guitar --> Zoom G7 --> Amp input --> Amp EFX Send --> Rack EFX --> Amp EFX Return Zoom G7 controlling the Rocktron (Vamp for now) efx via MIDI for loop based efx. All effects in front of the amp input would come from the Zoom. I would then have to get something like a Nobels MS-4 for the rack to handle channel switching (or get a Replifiex or Multivalve Rocktron that has channel switching). Once again, thoughts? Am I simply overthinking this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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