Members ckett Posted October 29, 2006 Members Share Posted October 29, 2006 Hello, I am looking into establishing a sampling system for my music composition. Debating whether to go with an Akai S6000 or stick with a software sampler. I will be using a sampler for triggering all sorts of sounds for an ambient world music style. I don't need hard disk streaming for using super large orchestral libraries. Many of the samples will be self created and manipulated in a variety of creative ways. So really the question is this: Has software sampling been reliable enough to use without too many hang-ups or should I look into an Akai S6000 that has a proven reliable OS? I just see so many issues with every upgrade in the software world that it appears that tools such as Kontakt and Gigastudio are more of a headache than a reliable tool.Upgrade your sequencer, then your sampler version X has problems. Upgrade sampler x and then it doesn't run on your current sequencer version x. Here is my DAW computer system:Cubase SX 3Asus A8V Deluxe with AMD X2 dual core chip2GB Corsair RAMRME Digiface Hammerfall sound card Thanks and look forward to your interesting experiences! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue halo Posted October 29, 2006 Members Share Posted October 29, 2006 After beating my head against the wall trying to get Kontakt to work (never really did, gave up on it) I installed Halion, and that worked like a charm. The great thing about a soft-sampler is that 1) most of your sound design/editing is done on the computer anyway, so it's all right there and 2) keymapping is really {censored}ing easy on a computer. Now, I'm not really sure if any of the newer hardware samplers have a computer based editor, but it really does make it easier for mapping and velocity changes.. So... There's been no major clitches with using Halion, except the inherant computer glitches (my home puter sucks balls) but that has nothing to do with the plug. Hope that helps somehow.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Yoozer Posted October 29, 2006 Members Share Posted October 29, 2006 If your computer's stable, Kontakt should run just fine. Keymapping is indeed one of the biggest advantages. If you have an S6000 with USB expansion and a keyboard hooked up to it, it should be probably just as easy; organization turns into joy instead of a chore with computer-based sampling. Also, there's pretty much no limit to the number of effects you can stack in there. Convolution reverb, an absurd amount of filters with easily editable envelopes - the only thing it's missing would be a Z-plane filter . Do get the trial version if you haven't done so yet; it pulled me over the edge. A folder full of drumkit samples but no program? Drag 'm in there and you're nearly there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue halo Posted October 29, 2006 Members Share Posted October 29, 2006 Originally posted by Yoozer If your computer's stable, Kontakt should run just fine. True enough.. I have an early version of Kontakt (1.x) and you can't really upgrade an NFR copy... And I'm not a dealer anymore, so I can't get a new version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members P321 Posted October 29, 2006 Members Share Posted October 29, 2006 Originally posted by Yoozer If your computer's stable, Kontakt should run just fine Sorry, but even as a Kontakt fan myself, that's just not true. The last hard lockup my PC had was so long ago I don't even remember (maybe over a year ago). I'd wager my machine is more stable than 95% of people who dedicate a machine for audio. Whilst Kontakt 2 is mostly ok it's near the top of the list of unstable plugins. It is one of the more unreliable/unstable VST's that I have especially when you start to work around in it long enough. Most Native Instruments VST's are rock solid, but Kontakt has always been somewhat crash prone. Reliability has improved in recent revisions of version 2, but it's still not something I would trust in something like a live situation.. Whereas I'd have no problem doing that with most VST's. Gigastudio uses kernel mode with GSIF to give it its low CPU usage and latency with high polyphony, which is what makes it so unstable. Any small mistake in your cards drivers, or in the Giga code, and it's blue screen time. That's why people dedicate computers to it. Just get it to work and leave it alone to do its stuff sort of thing. There's a new VST version of Giga just released, and that SHOULD be a lot more stable, although you will lose some performance because going via VST instead of GSIF. There are many more stable programs than Kontakt for sampling, but all of them lack in some way, except maybe EMU's Emulator X 2, which apparently isn't totally rock solid either. HALion is definitely more stable. There's also more simple samplers like RGC SFZ that should be more stable. If you want the features though, then Kontakt is still #1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members idiotboy Posted October 29, 2006 Members Share Posted October 29, 2006 That you even raised the question is enough for me to recommend hardware for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kazper Posted October 30, 2006 Members Share Posted October 30, 2006 I agree with Idiotboy. If you go for the akai make sure you have the USB option. I can drag and drop samples and edit from the screen on my mac to my Mpc4000. It's only drawback has been moving lots of files to and from seems to cause it some problems but were talking usb 1.1 . Keymaps, setups, patterns are edited on screen no problem with the software. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members drxcm Posted October 30, 2006 Members Share Posted October 30, 2006 I had Kontakt2 until recently. I sold it. It was nice, but I prefer hardware sampling. I found it crashed with some regularity also (dual-core g5). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MuzikB Posted October 30, 2006 Members Share Posted October 30, 2006 I'd prefer hardware if I could get my hands on an Akai Z8. I use Kontakt 2 and love it's versatility. It's locked up on my once or twice but has never crashed on me (Apple Dual G5 and Powerbook single G4). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cloacal-X Posted October 30, 2006 Members Share Posted October 30, 2006 What you need to be looking at is Shortcircuit - www.vemberaudio.se SC is my workhorse instrument these days. It's super-flexible, very easy GUI, it sounds great, very stable, small footprint, no custom drivers, easy on the CPU, etc. etc. Basically I cannot sing it's praises enough - anybody who does creative sampling for sound design, etc. should take a serious look at Shortcircuit. The only hardware samplers that are really comparable are the Yamaha A4000/A5000, E-mu E4 Ultra, and Kurzweil K2500/K2600. But those will all cost more, take up physical space, and are not nearly as fast (both interface-wise and in terms of loading, etc.). I think the only reason to own a hardware sampler these days is if you already know and love either the workflow or the sound of a specific device. Also maybe if you want to do live performance and you don't have a laptop. Other than that, software is just lightyears ahead in terms of workflow. Kontakt 2 is probably okay if you want to stream large libraries, but next to SC I've found Kontakt to be clunky, slow, and unreliable. Try Shortcircuit, seriously. There is a free version with only 2-note polyphony. It probably sounds like Claes (head honcho at vemberaudio) pays me, but I swear I'm just a huge fan because SC had changed how I do music (for the better, obviously). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ckett Posted October 30, 2006 Author Members Share Posted October 30, 2006 Wow! Thanks for all of the great feedback. I will try out ShortCircuit. Looks interesting. I have an Akai S6000 coming in this week. I plan on doing a big showdown to test stability and workflow. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stikygum Posted October 30, 2006 Members Share Posted October 30, 2006 One more reason to go hardware is for better sound. Software sampling lacks what a harware samplers like EMUs or Kurzweils can bring to the table with more organic definition of sound. But for ease of use and organization, software can't be beat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Yoozer Posted October 30, 2006 Members Share Posted October 30, 2006 Originally posted by stikygum One more reason to go hardware is for better sound. Software sampling lacks what a harware samplers like EMUs or Kurzweils can bring to the table with more organic definition of sound. A sampler contains: - internal memory - a small character-based or graphic display - a SCSI harddisk / zipdisk / CD-rom reader/writer - a central processing unit - a bunch of D/A converters That makes it suspiciously look like a computer . So, "organic" would only consist out of better-programmed filters (we're not talking about Emulators with analog filters here) or better (subjective; they color the sound, which is usually perceived as pleasant) D/A converters, because for the rest, it's identical to any computer out there, just with a restricted feature set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cloacal-X Posted October 30, 2006 Members Share Posted October 30, 2006 Originally posted by Yoozer So, "organic" would only consist out of better-programmed filters (we're not talking about Emulators with analog filters here) or better (subjective; they color the sound, which is usually perceived as pleasant) D/A converters, because for the rest, it's identical to any computer out there, just with a restricted feature set. Mmm, there are a lot of things you aren't considering, such as: *internal resolution (for voice summing, etc.)*interpolation method (for transposition, *hugely* important to a sampler's sound)*modulation speed and resolution Those are probably the most important aspects of a sampler's sound, aside from the filters. Of course, none of those are things that hardware automatically has the edge on - to the contrary, a lot of software samplers do really well in the interpolation department (although Kontakt is fairly mediocre here, Emulator X, Shortcircuit, and SFZ+ all do quite well). Also, the internal resolution for most of the software samplers defaults to the host sample rate, and usually 32-bit FP processing internally. The filters on a lot of software samplers are really great, too. Gigastudio's filters kind of suck, but Kontakt's are pretty good, and SC and Emu-X are both superb. In terms of fidelity, software is really just hands-down better IMHO - if you want character, for now (until products like this start showing up) the hardware has the edge, especially the oldies like the SP-1200, Emulator II, Emax, Mirage, DSS-1, etc. Honestly, if I could have an E4XT-ultra for the price of an Emax SE, I'd still take the Emax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members P321 Posted October 30, 2006 Members Share Posted October 30, 2006 Originally posted by Cloacal-X a lot of software samplers do really well in the interpolation department (although Kontakt is fairly mediocre here, Emulator X, Shortcircuit, and SFZ+ all do quite well).In one of the recent Kontakt 2 updates there's a new high quality mode which answers that, although it'll eat more CPU. But if you're stretching a sample over many keys the CPU hit may be worth the better quality difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stikygum Posted October 30, 2006 Members Share Posted October 30, 2006 Originally posted by Yoozer A sampler contains: - internal memory - a small character-based or graphic display - a SCSI harddisk / zipdisk / CD-rom reader/writer - a central processing unit - a bunch of D/A converters That makes it suspiciously look like a computer . So, "organic" would only consist out of better-programmed filters (we're not talking about Emulators with analog filters here) or better (subjective; they color the sound, which is usually perceived as pleasant) D/A converters, because for the rest, it's identical to any computer out there, just with a restricted feature set. Yep, that's for sure. But only one or two pieces of the puzzle can make a big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cloacal-X Posted October 30, 2006 Members Share Posted October 30, 2006 Originally posted by stikygum Yep, that's for sure. But only one or two pieces of the puzzle can make a big difference. But those are two pieces that aren't absent on a computer! You can actually get D/A stages far superior to anything on a hardware sampler if you want (like a lynx card + apogee, for example), and the filters are just algorithms - there's nothing precluding a software sampler from having excellent filters, and some really do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members idiotboy Posted October 30, 2006 Members Share Posted October 30, 2006 One nice thing about the AKAI S6000 is the removable control panel. The cable that connects the panel to the sampler can be extended with a plain old DB9 cable. So I had the sampler hidden in an out-of-reach rack, and kept the control panel sitting on my keyboard, like a proper remote. And if you've got the USB board connected to your computer, even better. That's a great sampler. Doesn't have the old S900 grit, but it's got a lot of power, and muy muy stable from my experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lord Toranaga Posted October 31, 2006 Members Share Posted October 31, 2006 I love my s6000 it is compatible with every midi sequencer on the planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted November 1, 2006 Members Share Posted November 1, 2006 FYI -- I'm doing a Pro Review of the Emulator X2 software sampler here. It's a very capable sampler, I particularly find the SynthSwipe option pretty compelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Nightsynth Posted November 1, 2006 Members Share Posted November 1, 2006 I use an S-5000 with USB and the EB20 effects card. This still is my favourite sampler ever... hardware or software. I also use Kontakt 2 and find it's pretty stable, but when I just want to have something completely rock solid, I go to the Akai. With USB, it basically acts like a software sampler anyway. You don't even have to use the front panel... at all! The FX are a little weak, but useable. Keymapping is very easy to do (even without USB). The Akai is just much more intuitive than any sampler I've used. The S-5000 will remain in my setup indefinitely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members program_insect Posted November 1, 2006 Members Share Posted November 1, 2006 I'll reiterate what somebody already said....I love Kontakt (2), it's my favorite sampler that I've ever used, but there's no way in HELL I would depend on it in a live setting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stikygum Posted November 1, 2006 Members Share Posted November 1, 2006 Originally posted by Anderton FYI -- I'm doing a Pro Review of the Emulator X2 software sampler here. It's a very capable sampler, I particularly find the SynthSwipe option pretty compelling. I don't think your link works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mook Posted November 1, 2006 Members Share Posted November 1, 2006 Try this: http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1351934 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members elsongs Posted November 1, 2006 Members Share Posted November 1, 2006 And which do you choose, a hard or soft option? - Pet Shop Boys,"West End Girls" Has anyone here used MOTU Mach Five? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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