Recommendations for B3, Rhodes, wurli etc

[nirE]

Have been planning to buy a Nord Electro 61 because I want the classic organ, sounds, but wondering if there's another option to work with my current board.

I have a Roland EP7II- is there anything out there that I can bring the sounds into that keyboard with for less money than buying a Nord? Sorry for being so vague- I'm not the tech type- just want to get something with good sound for a decent price.

[zxcvbnm098]

You cannot "bring the sounds" into it, but you can use a rack mounted unit via MIDI. Emu made a "Classic Keys" rack mounted unit that has many of the sounds and more of a Nord. Not as good certainly, but I bet you can find one pretty cheap (~$250?).

[nirE]

Would it be a good option to get an e-mu x board, and then load on the patches for the sounds I want?

[mate_stubb]

The way you are phrasing your questions leads me to believe that you don't understand how synths work. Pardon me if I restate some things that you already understand.

 

You can't load sounds or patches from one instrument onto another in most cases.

 

You can use MIDI to control a second instrument with the sound you want from your main instrument.

 

You can often program your main instrument to get close to the sound on another box.

 

Having said that, you cannot imitate a Hammond organ convincingly from a synth. You need a dedicated organ simulator for that. These days those instruments are often called clonewheels.

 

They include keyboards (Nord Stage and Electro, Hammond XK-1 and XK-3, Korg CX-3, Roland VK-7 and VK-8) and modules (Nord Electro, Hammond XM-2, Roland VK-8M).

[wildpaws]

 

The way you are phrasing your questions leads me to believe that you don't understand how synths work. Pardon me if I restate some things that you already understand. You can't load sounds or patches from one instrument onto another in most cases. You can use MIDI to control a second instrument with the sound you want from your main instrument. You can often program your main instrument to get close to the sound on another box. Having said that, you cannot imitate a Hammond organ convincingly from a synth. You need a dedicated organ simulator for that. These days those instruments are often called clonewheels. They include keyboards (Nord Stage and Electro, Hammond XK-1 and XK-3, Korg CX-3, Roland VK-7 and VK-8) and modules (Nord Electro, Hammond XM-2, Roland VK-8M).

 

 

I would have to disagree that you cannot imitate a Hammond organ convincingly from a synth. I have long had excellent Hammond patches on my DX7IIFD, I later converted those patches for use on my SY77 and SY99, run them through my Leslie 910 and I defy you to tell me which is the synth and which is my Hammond C3 in the same room. As to the OPs needs, I also find the DX/SY synths excellent for Rhodes and Wurli sounds, perhaps a TG777 would be a viable solution.

Clyde

[dabowsa]

I would have to disagree that you cannot imitate a Hammond organ convincingly from a synth. I have long had excellent Hammond patches on my DX7IIFD, I later converted those patches for use on my SY77 and SY99, run them through my Leslie 910 and I defy you to tell me which is the synth and which is my Hammond C3 in the same room. As to the OPs needs, I also find the DX/SY synths excellent for Rhodes and Wurli sounds, perhaps a TG777 would be a viable solution. Clyde

 

Who said anything about a Leslie?

[mate_stubb]

 

I would have to disagree that you cannot imitate a Hammond organ convincingly from a synth. I have long had excellent Hammond patches on my DX7IIFD, I later converted those patches for use on my SY77 and SY99, run them through my Leslie 910 and I defy you to tell me which is the synth and which is my Hammond C3 in the same room. As to the OPs needs, I also find the DX/SY synths excellent for Rhodes and Wurli sounds, perhaps a TG777 would be a viable solution. Clyde

 

Really?

 

You get good tube overdrive from your FM patches? Authentic chorus vibrato? Foldback? Mono triggered percussion?

[wildpaws]

Who said anything about a Leslie?

 

Typically anyone using a Hammond or wanting to do a Hammond emulation will run it through a Leslie, you do realize that the Leslie rotors have idle (no doppler effect to speak of) and fast which gives the Leslie tremelo effect.

Clyde

[wildpaws]

 

Really? You get good tube overdrive from your FM patches? Authentic chorus vibrato? Foldback? Mono triggered percussion?

 

 

The quality of FM Hammond emulations lies in attention to detail in programming the sound. There are patches that have good key click and good overdrive. Authentic chorus vibrato, no I don't think so. Foldback, no again, but I think that with further programming and the help of an MEP4 that could be acheived. Mono triggered percussion, again I think the MEP4 could do a pretty good job with that. While your questions may be to the point technically speaking, my answer was based on the sound from the synths compared to my Hammond C3, both in my home studio and in recordings I have done, I hear very little difference in the two and I doubt anyone else would either.

Clyde

[Mi-key]

I just bought one and found a place in CA. sells the 73 for $1495.00 thats 200 less then anywhere else I've seen

 

Mikey

[flattop]

Are you a Hammond player that never touches the drawbars while playing?

 

Wes Taggart

Analogics

http://www.analogics.org/

[wildpaws]

 

Are you a Hammond player that never touches the drawbars while playing? Wes Taggart Analogics http://www.analogics.org/

 

 

If your question was directed to me the answer is no. There were "adjustable drawbar" patches done on the DX7II series many years ago.

Clyde

[Musicale]

 

The quality of FM Hammond emulations lies in attention to detail in programming the sound. There are patches that have good key click and good overdrive. Authentic chorus vibrato, no I don't think so. Foldback, no again, but I think that with further programming and the help of an MEP4 that could be acheived. Mono triggered percussion, again I think the MEP4 could do a pretty good job with that. While your questions may be to the point technically speaking, my answer was based on the sound from the synths compared to my Hammond C3, both in my home studio and in recordings I have done, I hear very little difference in the two and I doubt anyone else would either. Clyde

 

 

Hey Wildpaws:

 

I am interested in the DX-7 patches you may have that simulate Hammond organ. The best work done on this programming that i know of was done by Lance Armstrong (probably not the bicyclist). It was described in Yamaha Publication "After Touch" February 1986. This article describes how the amplitude roll off rates for each drawbar are determined with a voltmeter. If you plot output amplitude vs frequency for a drawbar, you map the roll off rate. These amplitude roll off rates can then be programmed into the DX operator, however only for six drawbars. You can select any six. Thus, I am curious of the basis of your system, and can it be applied to the DX-7 also?

Anyway if you are willing to share some of your programming preferably on programming sheets I would be interested in seeing your work.

 

Regards, Musicale

[dabowsa]

Typically anyone using a Hammond or wanting to do a Hammond emulation will run it through a Leslie, you do realize that the Leslie rotors have idle (no doppler effect to speak of) and fast which gives the Leslie tremelo effect. Clyde

 

Well, the point is that you're telling the guy he can get "excellent Hammond patches on a DX7" or whatever synth he has, he doesn't need a clone. All you have to do is purchase, haul, and mic a Leslie. Hence, my original .

 

In the interest of reality, he's much better off getting something like the NE61 that he's considering. The other advice of older clonewheels or ROM'plers is appropriate as he's looking to spend less money. VK-7 is probably a great place to start, and the Emu is another great recommendation. I used to get by on the Alesis QS organs.

 

Actually, the real point is that we're once going back and forth through the minutia and the original poster is nowhere to be found.

[wildpaws]

 

Hey Wildpaws: I am interested in the DX-7 patches you may have that simulate Hammond organ. The best work done on this programming that i know of was done by Lance Armstrong (probably not the bicyclist). It was described in Yamaha Publication "After Touch" February 1986. This article describes how the amplitude roll off rates for each drawbar are determined with a voltmeter. If you plot output amplitude vs frequency for a drawbar, you map the roll off rate. These amplitude roll off rates can then be programmed into the DX operator, however only for six drawbars. You can select any six. Thus, I am curious of the basis of your system, and can it be applied to the DX-7 also? Anyway if you are willing to share some of your programming preferably on programming sheets I would be interested in seeing your work. Regards, Musicale

 

 

Yes, Lance Armstrong's patches/explanations were very good, I still have the original copy of Aftertouch with his work in it. As to whether it can be applied

to the DX7, I assume that you are talking about the original MkI. The limitation on that would be as you mentioned only six drawbars, on the DX7II series you can do it as a dual mode voice that could actually do as many as twelve drawbars, through choice of algorithms and/or disabling operators you can do the correct number of drawbars (nine if you leave off the footpedal/bass drawbars). I don't think that I've done anything that extrodinary, I just used some of Lance's original patches, kept editing them over the years as I found other patches that showed me other things to try, tweaking and tweaking until I found results that appealed to my ear. At one point I converted/moved them to my SY77 where I did most of my work, I later moved them over to my SY99. I don't have any of these patches on data sheets as they were simply tweaked/edited on the fly and then saved to disk, I can probably pull up the many versions from the workbanks that are on disk from over the years as each new version was saved to disk as "Workvox 6-98", etc. And it may be interesting to pull together all of the versions of those patches to see the progression, perhaps when I get my new music room completed I'll have more time to do so, between that project and other renovations to my house there is little spare time at the moment.

Clyde

[Musicale]

Thanks for some explanation. Yeah, I too have quite a few of the After Touch mags. It's amazing how hard Yamaha worked to get into the musical world. It would be nice if a vendor were so customer oriented these days.

 

I have a original DX7, and I am the original owner. Starting to break it out again to play with. Currently I have a A100 twin Leslies, a Baldwin grand and I just picked up a GEM PRP800. This is a fantastic piano and Rhodes. The rest of it is pretty much filler. Bought it only for piano and Rhodes however.

 

Anyway if you ever do get a chance if you could email me some of you patches, I would be interested. By the way Lance alluded to using a TX802 to simulate a Leslie. Any ideas here.

 

Kindest Regards, Musicale.

[Outkaster]

 

I would have to disagree that you cannot imitate a Hammond organ convincingly from a synth. I have long had excellent Hammond patches on my DX7IIFD, I later converted those patches for use on my SY77 and SY99, run them through my Leslie 910 and I defy you to tell me which is the synth and which is my Hammond C3 in the same room. As to the OPs needs, I also find the DX/SY synths excellent for Rhodes and Wurli sounds, perhaps a TG777 would be a viable solution. Clyde

 

 

 

I bet I could tell the difference. You have a Hammond C-3 and a Leslie 910 and the DX7IIFD sounds the same? Doubt it.

[tucktronix]

 

I bet I could tell the difference. You have a Hammond C-3 and a Leslie 910 and the DX7IIFD sounds the same? Doubt it.

 

 

True dat...

 

Hey, have you seen McNally's setup? He's been using a DX7, with a keyboard (whose model I don't recall) for the lower manual both connected to a 122R(I believe). Didn't sound too bad. Now he tells me that he wants a CX3...?

 

Copycat:D

[wildpaws]

Well, the point is that you're telling the guy he can get "excellent Hammond patches on a DX7" or whatever synth he has, he doesn't need a clone. All you have to do is purchase, haul, and mic a Leslie. Hence, my original . In the interest of reality, he's much better off getting something like the NE61 that he's considering. The other advice of older clonewheels or ROM'plers is appropriate as he's looking to spend less money. VK-7 is probably a great place to start, and the Emu is another great recommendation. I used to get by on the Alesis QS organs. Actually, the real point is that we're once going back and forth through the minutia and the original poster is nowhere to be found.

 

I don't think I anywhere said "whatever synth he has". So much for accuracy.

The OP has not been seen in this thread since his second post was answered with an explanation of how synths work, I don't disagree with the explanation, but obviously the OP decided to not pursue the topic. A clonewheel may answer his organ/B3 needs but I don't think it addresses his Rhodes/Wurli needs.

 

Clyde

[wildpaws]

 

I bet I could tell the difference. You have a Hammond C-3 and a Leslie 910 and the DX7IIFD sounds the same? Doubt it.

 

 

If you read all of the posts, you would realize that I'm currently doing this on an SY77/99, though it does sound similar on the DX7IIFD and we're not talking about "factory patches"). Doubt it all you like, that is certainly your right to do. Next you'll be telling me that the Steinway samples on my SY99 couldn't possibly sound like a Steinway (which I can also A/B in my home studio against my L grand). It amazes me that many people want to debate something they have never heard as though they knew every possible bit of knowledge available in the world of synths/organs/etc. I tend to instead listen to people that share new or different ideas and learn from them in the hope that I can expand my knowledge.

Clyde

[TheFoosa]

Your Steinway samples don't sound like your Steinway, and your SY and DX synths don't sound like a real tonewheel organ. Having never even heard them, I would place a 5 million dollar bet on this. It is entirely impossible for those things to be accurately recreated the way that you are doing it, and either you can't hear at all, or you just don't know what it is that you aren't hearing, as far as the differences between them. If you really want to expand your knowledge like your copout at the end of the post suggests, then say so and I will explain why I can be so sure of this without hearing it. Or you can plug your ears and go LALALA WHO NEEDS A STEINWAY WHEN YOU HAVE A SY99 LALALA.

[wildpaws]

 

Your Steinway samples don't sound like your Steinway, and your SY and DX synths don't sound like a real tonewheel organ. Having never even heard them, I would place a 5 million dollar bet on this. It is entirely impossible for those things to be accurately recreated the way that you are doing it, and either you can't hear at all, or you just don't know what it is that you aren't hearing, as far as the differences between them. If you really want to expand your knowledge like your copout at the end of the post suggests, then say so and I will explain why I can be so sure of this without hearing it. Or you can plug your ears and go LALALA WHO NEEDS A STEINWAY WHEN YOU HAVE A SY99 LALALA.

 

 

Well gee, I guess I must be completely tone deaf and lacking in any conception of what instruments sound like. Having played organs/synths/piano for the last 48 years has been a real experience since I don't know what I'm hearing, I guess those A/B comparisons in my home studio between my synths, my Hammond C3, and my Steinway L grand are just not valid. And, oh well, what's the point, you know "everything" and I'm just a poor, uneducated, tone deaf fool.

Clyde

[TheFoosa]

With the amazing stage piano technology today, things are still not accurately reproduced. As close as the top technology can get, anybody who calls themself a pianist would not hesitate to pick a less than perfect real piano (but still somewhat in tune and playable) over a digital simulation. Why is it that you have managed to create something that is a completely accurate reproduction of the piano sound? And how did you do it (on such old technology)? Would you mind posting a clip or two, and explaining a little on the process in which you sampled the piano and programmed the patch?

[Outkaster]

 

With the amazing stage piano technology today, things are still not accurately reproduced. As close as the top technology can get, anybody who calls themself a pianist would not hesitate to pick a less than perfect real piano (but still somewhat in tune and playable) over a digital simulation. Why is it that you have managed to create something that is a completely accurate reproduction of the piano sound? And how did you do it (on such old technology)? Would you mind posting a clip or two, and explaining a little on the process in which you sampled the piano and programmed the patch?

 

 

 

Yes that is a good idea.

[TheFoosa]

Bump.