How much is smoke & mirrors when you gig?

[MarkShovel2]

Evanescence live

- I saw them on their first tour. They were using sequenced keyboards and backing vocal tracks along with live drums, guitar, bass and vocals. It seems wierd to hear this massive backing track integrated into the live band experience.

- This is the difference between a live four piece band and studio overdub act. No disrespect to them. It's a necessary evil to reproduce the music live. Otherwise, they would have had to hire another three or four musicians to make the whole show live. An then it would not have sounded as good as the excellent voice that Amy recorded.

Oh yeah, Amy was very hot! It's amazing how small she was.

[Meatball Fulton]

How much of your "live" gigging is actually just miming over a recording and how much is actually playing?

 

 

It's 100% live but the styles of music I play on gigs don't lend themselves to the use of backing tracks or sequenced parts anyway.

[lawst]

I dont think miming is acceptable as nothing beats a live performance. If I want to listen to a recording of a band then I'll get their CD but using a recording kind of defeats the purpose of a live show. On the other hand, I dont have a problem with backing tracks if they are used to do stuff that isnt normally possible live. E.g. a reverse guitar or other samples...

[coyote-1]

I put a band together a couple years ago. The drummer, whenever we'd try something new that I couldn't play the first time, would say "Hey let's sequence the part".

I'd reply "I'll never learn the parts if we do that! We will play it til I get it."

Of course, I'd do my homework so that I'd have the part within a few weeks. But increasingly, people cheat on these things. It bugs me.

I noticed a few times that Amy Lee would be playing an intro or whatever on a keyboard, then grab the mike and start running around dancing & singing....and magically the piano would continue in the background. Was she even playing the intro or just miming? How much of your "live" gigging is actually just miming over a recording and how much is actually playing? Is miming perfectly acceptable now, or is it considered "cheating"? Sorry if my questions are naive....

 

[a_rose2025]

It probably happens a lot more than you'd like to think... Oh for the good old days when it was all played live (even if it ment hiding some extra players under the stage).

 

 

I might be mocked mercilessly for admitting this, but I saw coldplay right before their second record came out (and began the extended letdown of every record since) and even back then they were either playing to a click, or had a dude playing synth pads offstage. It bummed me out, because I knew they could have done it all if they'd wanted, but they'd decided Chris Martin wouldn't look cool playing a synth while singing.

 

F that S.

[kooki_sf]

sequences are fine on stage if you dont mime it. and if it doesnt match the structure on the album. in fact i LIKE it when electronic music acts let sequences run and focus on cutting it up and reordering things live, than bringing out some hired musicians to play drums or bass or whatever where it was never even a live instrument on the album. (that sucks).

[gdh]

not to hijack this thread but how do you all feel about singers who rely on Antares Autotune for both recording and live. Personally I see this in the same way. I'm not talking about using it to fix minor pitch changes after recording but using it all the time.

[kooki_sf]

i like the sound of melodyne better. that cher effect is f*cking annoying.

 

also: is it really hard to hit those notes? then how did you get that contract?!

[TheFoosa]

 

i like the sound of melodyne better. that cher effect is f*cking annoying. also: is it really hard to hit those notes? then how did you get that contract?!

 

 

Pretty face and no artistic vision, so the execs can tell you do whatever the want, and you bend over and do it.

[DiSiAC]

My band plays out with sequencers and backing tracks. We needed our sound effects and some synth stuff but with only 3 people its a little hard to do everything live. The drums, Singing, and Guitar are the only things that are live 100 percent of the time, sometimes the keys are live as well depending on what I need to do on the guitar. As far as "miming" thats just stupid.

about 2 weekends ago our backing tracks took a {censored} half way through a song. did it stop us? well the lead singer freaked out but got back on it when he relized myself and the drummer kept it together and finished the set that way.

[Karma1]

I've struggled with this issue a bit myself. As someone who played guitar in rock bands for decades, sequences and pre-recorded tracks were never a consideration. But now that I'm doing solo gigs of ambient electronic synth music, I find that it's very helpful in filling out my sound. All my backing tracks are loops and samples that I've created, and I play live over them with two keyboards and a synth module. Sometimes it feels dishonest to do that, but it makes a big difference in the fullness of my sound, and at least I can say that everything the audience is hearing has been created by me, even if some of it has been sequenced. I don't want to use the "everybody is doing it" excuse, but it seems to be common practice in today's music.

[Ozben]

In one of the three bands I'm in, just 2 songs are sequenced: "Love Shack" and "Boogie Shoes". The vocalist for Love Shack likes to run around like an idiot and dance like a fool while waving around a flex-tone. My sequence frees him from his normal bass duties. So my dino Korg T-2 sequence covers the bass and horn parts while a wail away on the Korg CX-3 and play the cowbell. On Boogie Shoes, I also let the T-2 take the horns while I play the keys with one hand and the cowbell with the other. I don't freak out about it though. No one is paying that much attention and crying foul. As a matter of fact, they are too busy dancing and having a good time to notice I ain't covering all parts with both hands. Live non-drum percussion is a HUGE factor in our sound.

[Prog]

Otherwise, they would have had to hire another three or four musicians to make the whole show live.

Oh, the horror!

An then it would not have sounded as good as the excellent voice that Amy recorded.

Which means, she can't sing.

[FAFAPHONEY]

I don't think it's so bad to use sequencing to augment a band with extra padding. If someone was actually acting like they were playing but the sound was sequenced - NOT COOL. That's as bad a Milly Vanilly. Most respectable musicians who are putting on a SHOW might spend a little time on their instrument then leave to interact with the audience, and the part they were playing continues on afterwards. I'd hope that this is scripted for the show and that the sequenced part starts where the artist ends. I have a Peter Gabriel DVD where I think he does this a few times.

 

 

Yes, I was just thinking the same thing. Peter Gabriel "Growing Up" he sets the intro that is a loop for the song "Darkness" as the band joins him on stage after performing "Here Comes the Flood".

 

However I do think this is diiferent in that it is just a loop and not a "pad" or solo of the song. Its like the voice samples when Roger or Floyd is perfoming for example, "Dark Side of The Moon", it's in a sequence but you know the band is actually perfoming the synth work on stage. If you found otherwise you may think, "wow that sucks".

 

The funny thing is I am posting a new topic just becuase of Peter Gabriel and coming in from my car, this thread caught my eye first and I was ironically thinking just what you said. HAHA :

 

See my post: Goosebumps

[void]

When I play live, It's usually just me up there[sometimes I have guitarist and drummer as well] But I cut my backing tracks up so that say that piano starts the song and then something else comes in overtop of that, I play the beginning piano and once the next part comes in I have the piano on backing track from that point on and take over the new part [if that makes any sense]

[android]

It's clearly a matter of genre.
If you, like me, are in a two-piece electropop band, there's no chance in the world that you could play everything live. But on the other hand, I find it really daft when people mime, or just stand behind their synths and clap their hands during most of the songs...

[Qwave]

If I pay for a live concert, I think I should hear and see musicians playing as much live aspossible.
If some people accept playback shows, it is OK for them. But not for me.

And I really hate to see even more and more amateur EM musicians and groups faking playing live, while you see and hear a DVD played on a big screen behind them.
Those people should not "play" on a stage at all. They should ask themself why a live concert is named live concert.

[wades_keys]

And I really hate to see even more and more amateur EM musicians and groups faking playing live, while you see and hear a DVD played on a big screen behind them. Those people should not "play" on a stage at all. They should ask themself why a live concert is named live concert.

+10000000000

This borders on false advertising.

Consumer protection laws would be nice here...

[Miket156]

I use Midi backing tracks these days.

Years ago, I use to play piano, harmonica, and sing. "Most" clubs were like "You play piano? (Yawn) we don't use dinner music here". I'd tell them that I didn't play dinner music, I did a "Billy Joel act" (with other things too) and most clubs weren't interested. At some of the gigs I DID get, armed only with a piano, harmonica, and microphone, some people would shout "Play Freebird", or "Stairway to Heaven". Sure, that would sound just great on an acoustic piano wouldn't it. (A..hole)

Then, a few other musicians locally started using either KB's sequenced songs or a PC to play backing tracks. They would play guitar and sing and let the sequencer do the rest. They were good at it, and got LOTS of jobs.

If you can't fight them, join them.

These days I play KB's live on every song, sing lead, and use a Digitech harmonizer. Almost every song is sequenced. So, I'm a One Man Band. People have come to expect more from musicians, along with the technology that allows us to do it. A lot of small clubs and private parties aren't going to pay big $$$ for a full band. That's my market. I can pick and choose what jobs I want to take, and how much I charge. It beats the hell out of being in a band.


Mike T.

[coyote-1]

No disrespect to you at all, but from an ntertainment perspective I can't stand OneManBands. Even if I appreciate the work and talent etc involved in doing it.... it just does not excite me. If the entertainment's a OneManBand, I'll typically skip it. In fact, a piano bar act interests me more - at least you're seeing/hearing that person perform.

So, I'm a One Man Band. Mike T.

All that said, I do understand why you do it.

[setAI]

even Tangerine Dream started to mime to tape by the early 80s- it is silly to watch Edgar pretending play Chris' obvious Moog 900 sequences by hand?!

I remember that early 80s post-punk period it was the coolest thing in the world to mime playing your keyboard to backing tape just like all the cool kids were doing on Top of the Pops

remember Liquid Sky? "me-and-my-rhythm-box... it's---pre-programmed"

I always followed the Kraftwerk workflow model for playing sequencer-based music live: go ahead and have everything programmed- only add in simple pads or one-off sounds and spend most of your time modulating the pre-programmed tracks- there is NO REASON to ever fake or mime when you can simply tweak- a little dynamic filter mod looks just as good on stage and 'busy' as faking the actual notes

[MaNdU]

2 Years ago i was in a Royal Caribbean cruise ship , and the official ship band play live every night but also with alot of pre recorded background instruments, some times the same instruments they where playing. And it sounded strange some times. Also very nice equipment there, nice extralarge digitall consoles, genelec monitors, huge processing racks, very nice and veru huge gear.

[Miket156]

Quote by Coyote:
---------------------------------
No disrespect to you at all, but from an entertainment perspective I can't stand OneManBands. Even if I appreciate the work and talent etc involved in doing it.... it just does not excite me. If the entertainment's a OneManBand, I'll typically skip it. In fact, a piano bar act interests me more - at least you're seeing/hearing that person perform.
--------------------------------
A lot of musicians don't like "one man bands". When I just started using a drum machine along with my piano, I had drummers tell me I was putting them out of work. Fact was, I was going to do a solo, no more bands. I could control the drum volume as well as what it "played" and it didn't take up the room a set of drums did. Anyway, smaller clubs didn't want live drums, "too loud". I played in bands for years, then I had a duo for a number of years with a guitar player. He was great, when he was sober or bothered to show up for rehearsal to learn new tunes. It gets old.

Coyote, I still play some songs with just the piano and vocals. On every sequenced song I am playing a piano, organ, and/or a synth part. So people are "hearing me". But I'm not an octopus. People are getting what they ask for, but most musicians pass on OMBs. I understand why you don't like it.

Mike T.