Will a boss hr-2 harmonist work if you don't tune in A-440?

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how about if you purposefuly set it wrong? do you get messed up sounds? can it be used in a good way?

 

 

Yes, the glitch-y bad pitchshifting from setting it to the wrong key is awesome.

If you set it wrong and then play chords it gets especially wonky. It starts jumping around intervals semi-randomly.

[Yarmo]

 

But who in their right mind tunes to quarter steps besides indians?

 

 

IIRC, Radiohead's Just is 1/4 step sharp.

[hbar]

 

If I understand your question correctly, then no, it doesn't need to know your frequency. Whether you tune to standard E, or whether you tune to D and play the 2nd fret on your E string, etc., it's still E, therefore if you set the HR-2 to E, it will harmonize accordingly.

You're not understanding my question. The two notes you mention have the same frequency...that's why they're both D. The problem I'm having is that what you call "D" is really only relative to your tuning. I mean, sure A is 440. but is it really? Walk into 5 churches and put a strobe on their piano, and you'll see that "A" isn't always 440. But it's close.

 

Likewise, if my guitar is "in tune", but I'm actually a 1/4 step sharp from A-440 (so what is that? Let's call it A-441 for the sake of argument). That will put all the notes "off" from where you'd expect them to be based on an equal temper tuning. So how does the HR2 know where my A is? Or what if you're using a sweetened tuning, or Buzz Feiten, or you're just plain flat or something? All the notes are shifted from where they are found on the equal temper scale.

 

Or have am I missing where it doesn't need to know the frequency of the tonic in order to calculate where you're at in the scale, and thus the harmony note frequency?

[cantoXIII]

habr, i think you're making this all too complicated. get the pedal, {censored} around with it, and i'm sure you'll find something that sounds ok in your 1/4 quarter sharp/flat/{censored}ed-up tuning.

 

ha. when i played it, i set the knob to whatever was nearest to one of the main notes of what i was playing and it turned out awesome. don't try to think of it technically before you can hear it audibly, because chances are it will sound great.

[hbar]

habr, i think you're making this all too complicated. get the pedal, {censored} around with it, and i'm sure you'll find something that sounds ok in your 1/4 quarter sharp/flat/{censored}ed-up tuning. ha. when i played it, i set the knob to whatever was nearest to one of the main notes of what i was playing and it turned out awesome. don't try to think of it technically before you can hear it audibly, because chances are it will sound great.

Hey chief, I'm not the one wanting to buy one, you'll have to direct that to the OP. I'm just trying to figure out how it works.

[cantoXIII]

Hey chief, I'm not the one wanting to buy one, you'll have to direct that to the OP. I'm just trying to figure out how it works.

 

sorry! in that case...kevorkazito! reread my post above hbar.

[MrMunky]

The HR-2 has a control that allows you to select the key that the pedal is to "think" around. The keys listed on the pedal are in concert pitch---A=440.

 

The guitar is traditionally tuned to one octave below concert pitch (the octave difference doesn't affect the HR-2). If you tune your guitar down, nothing will change; you just have to remember to set your HR-2 to the correct concert pitch key. For example, in standard tuning, if you wanted to harmonize a major scale that begins on the eighth fret of the sixth string, you'd set the HR-2 to C. If you tuned your guitar down a half step and wanted to do the same, you would set the HR-2 to B---one-half step lower than C.

 

The HR-2 has some built in tolerance. I don't know exactly how much, but it will treat a 442 hz tone or a 438 hz tone as an A without any trouble. If you're too sharp it will see a Bb, and if you're too flat it will see an Ab.

[hbar]

The HR-2 has some built in tolerance. I don't know exactly how much, but it will treat a 442 hz tone or a 438 hz tone as an A without any trouble. If you're too sharp it will see a Bb, and if you're too flat it will see an Ab.

Well, that helps a bit. I'm still not clear if the harmony output would be based on the pure 440, or the actual 438, for example. I'm surprised with the number of people that use PS5's around here who also use strobos, there isn't more interest in how the shifter shifts, with respect to precision tuning. I don't use either, so it's more of a curiosity thing for me.

[angelhair0]

 

You're not understanding my question. The two notes you mention have the same frequency...that's why they're both D. The problem I'm having is that what you call "D" is really only relative to your tuning. I mean, sure A is 440. but is it really? Walk into 5 churches and put a strobe on their piano, and you'll see that "A" isn't always 440. But it's close. Likewise, if my guitar is "in tune", but I'm actually a 1/4 step sharp from A-440 (so what is that? Let's call it A-441 for the sake of argument). That will put all the notes "off" from where you'd expect them to be based on an equal temper tuning. So how does the HR2 know where my A is? Or what if you're using a sweetened tuning, or Buzz Feiten, or you're just plain flat or something? All the notes are shifted from where they are found on the equal temper scale. Or have am I missing where it doesn't need to know the frequency of the tonic in order to calculate where you're at in the scale, and thus the harmony note frequency?

 

 

Ahhh I know what you're saying. I believe the HR-2 only works in 440. All of the settings on the right knob where you set what key you're playing in are all based off of 440 and I don't think you can change that. On a PS-5, which is basically the same idea of the HR-2 on the harmonist setting, it doesn't work unless you're in tune to 440. I know that from experience.

 

Edit: I just read Mr Munky's post... I didn't know about that tolerance thing. So I guess he's right! I'm sure it works BETTER in 440 but if you're a little off I guess I can see the thing making up for it unless it's TOO off.

[MrMunky]

 

Well, that helps a bit. I'm still not clear if the harmony output would be based on the pure 440, or the actual 438, for example. I'm surprised with the number of people that use PS5's around here who also use strobos, there isn't more interest in how the shifter shifts, with respect to precision tuning. I don't use either, so it's more of a curiosity thing for me.

 

 

The harmony output is based on your signal - the actual 438 in your example. It takes whatever you give it and shifts it up or down a major or minor third (or 5th, 6th, whatever you asked it to do). That's why its a pretty solid unit - if you bend a note or use the whammy bar, the harmonized note bends with it. It works well.

[hbar]

Well, I played a PS5 in GC the other day, and I bent a note, and you're right, the harmony bent up with it. But when I got past a certain point, there was a distinct break in the harmony, like it suddenly decided to harmonize a different not or something. It was sort of like a glitch, I guess.

 

Glad to hear I wasn't being stupid about all this...you guys were being stupid about my question.

 

And now that we have resolution on this....I don't need to post this:

 

[MrMunky]

Well' date=' I played a PS5 in GC the other day, and I bent a note, and you're right, the harmony bent up with it. But when I got past a certain point, there was a distinct break in the harmony, like it suddenly decided to harmonize a different not or something. It was sort of like a glitch, I guess. QUOTE']

 

That's pretty much inevitable with intelligent pitch shifting, no matter how good the unit is. When in the key of C you bend, for example, a C to a D (a full step), a harmonized bend would be from an E to an F (a half step). The harmony player wouldn't need to bend as far, and so would bend at a slower rate to match your bend from C to D.

 

The HR-2 and PS-5 aren't this smart. They can't read your mind so they don't know in advance exactly how far you are going to bend. What they do is just stay exactly a third (or whichever interval you select) above the note you're bending until you have bent the note so far that the HR-2 thinks that you're closer to the next note in the scale. At that point it will abruptly shift to harmonizing that next note. If the harmony for the next note is a different interval than for the prior note, you will hear an abrupt---as opposed to smooth---pitch change.

[hbar]

Good info Mr Munky.

 

And a big *suck it* to everybody who thought I was being dense on this topic.

[angelhair0]

Just get a second guitar player! That's why I'm selling my PS-5 and why I don't use an HR-2 or anything.

[paydirt]

Just get a second guitar player! That's why I'm selling my PS-5 and why I don't use an HR-2 or anything.

 

 

My HR-2 is smarter than my other guitar player.

[angelhair0]

My HR-2 is smarter than my other guitar player.

 

Ya know, honestly, it's probably smarter than my other one, too. However, just recently we have been working together with harmonizing leads, so it's getting better. He just takes forever to get them down. Slowly but surely. Or Shirley as I like to call him.

[PFDarkside]

I agree with MrMunky 100%. Just to clarify, musical intervals are always a whole number ratio of frequencies. For example, an open fifth is always a 3:2 ratio (A=440Hz, E=660Hz) and a major third is a 5:4 ratio (A=440Hz, D=550Hz). So a harmonizer detects (with some tolerance) that you are playing an A at 440Hz and programmed the harmonizer to play at a 3rd and 5th. It knows that since you specified the key of Amajor and you are playing an A, it will take that frequency and multiply it (digitally I believe) by both 5/4 and 3/2. If you are a touch sharp, the ratios still hold and the harmonies are still in tune. Once you cross the threashold into A# territory, it changes it's algorythms based on you playing an A#.

 

It's all quite interesting, but the real challenge comes with approximating a guitar tone (many harmonics) as a single frequency. I assume they use some sort of a low pass filter before the detection portion to make it easier.

[angelhair0]

I agree with MrMunky 100%. Just to clarify, musical intervals are always a whole number ratio of frequencies. For example, an open fifth is always a 3:2 ratio (A=440Hz, E=660Hz) and a major third is a 5:4 ratio (A=440Hz, D=550Hz). So a harmonizer detects (with some tolerance) that you are playing an A at 440Hz and programmed the harmonizer to play at a 3rd and 5th. It knows that since you specified the key of Amajor and you are playing an A, it will take that frequency and multiply it (digitally I believe) by both 5/4 and 3/2. If you are a touch sharp, the ratios still hold and the harmonies are still in tune. Once you cross the threashold into A# territory, it changes it's algorythms based on you playing an A#. It's all quite interesting, but the real challenge comes with approximating a guitar tone (many harmonics) as a single frequency. I assume they use some sort of a low pass filter before the detection portion to make it easier.

 

[PFDarkside]

 

You know it, and don't you ever forget it!