Members kevorkazito Posted February 11, 2007 Members Share Posted February 11, 2007 I just read a HC user review say that you had to tune in A-440 to use the hr-2. Is this true? I wanna get one but I'm tuning down a half-step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jeid2000 Posted February 11, 2007 Members Share Posted February 11, 2007 I hope so, cos I tune down half a step and I just bought one on eBay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Strapping_Young_Lad Posted February 11, 2007 Members Share Posted February 11, 2007 take a second to think about it... that does not make any sense !!1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hbar Posted February 11, 2007 Members Share Posted February 11, 2007 That is a fine question...I've always wondered that as well. Report back with your findings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members paperhouse Posted February 12, 2007 Members Share Posted February 12, 2007 A-440 doesn't mean EADGBE. 99% of tuners are set to A-440. as long as a tuner says you're in tune, no matter what tuning you're in, you're tuned based on A-440. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hbar Posted February 12, 2007 Members Share Posted February 12, 2007 A-440 doesn't mean EADGBE. 99% of tuners are set to A-440. as long as a tuner says you're in tune, no matter what tuning you're in, you're tuned based on A-440. What does that have to do with anything? What if you tune 1/4 sharp....will the HR2 be able to properly harmonize? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members paperhouse Posted February 12, 2007 Members Share Posted February 12, 2007 What does that have to do with anything? What if you tune 1/4 sharp....will the HR2 be able to properly harmonize? both of you are confused on what A-440 means. maybe the person who made that claim is too. i haven't used that particular pitch shifter, but i would guess that it works fine if you tune a half step up/down. that's the same thing as playing the same note up/down a fret. alternate tunings shift notes up or down on the fretboard, just like using a capo or fretting a note in a different place. an open low E string in standard tuning is the same pitch as playing the first fret on a low E string tuned a half step down. a pitch shifter wouldn't know the difference. there are tons of frequencies out there. A-440 refers to the frequency that an A below middle C is tuned to, and all other pitches are tuned relative to that pitch. it's what deteremines what frequency an D5 is, etc. it's what most instruments made in the last 100 years are tuned to. i'd imagine that properly intonating a guitar tuned to anything other than A-440 would require different fret spacing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members angelhair0 Posted February 12, 2007 Members Share Posted February 12, 2007 A-440 doesn't mean EADGBE. 99% of tuners are set to A-440. as long as a tuner says you're in tune, no matter what tuning you're in, you're tuned based on A-440. True. If you were in 441 or 443 or something like that, there is no way it would work because the HR-2 only "knows" notes based off of 440. But who in their right mind tunes to quarter steps besides indians? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ComingApart Posted February 12, 2007 Members Share Posted February 12, 2007 Wow, I had no idea the effects forum was the "special forum". Re-read what Murch wrote and just take a minute to think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members murch33 Posted February 12, 2007 Members Share Posted February 12, 2007 Wow, I had no idea the effects forum was the "special forum".Re-read what Murch wrote and just take a minute to think about it. Yeah, but I deleted my post since paperhouse already explained it better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cantoXIII Posted February 12, 2007 Members Share Posted February 12, 2007 i tune down to c#, which is 1 and 1/2 steps down. tracks no problem... [edit]: 1000th post. hooray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hbar Posted February 12, 2007 Members Share Posted February 12, 2007 True. If you were in 441 or 443 or something like that, there is no way it would work because the HR-2 only "knows" notes based off of 440. But who in their right mind tunes to quarter steps besides indians?This is what I was thinking. And lots of recordings are a 1/4 step sharp or flat (of course I can't think of any off the top of my head, but it's not uncommon to speed the recording up a hair to tighten things up). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members murch33 Posted February 12, 2007 Members Share Posted February 12, 2007 This is what I was thinking. And lots of recordings are a 1/4 step sharp or flat (of course I can't think of any off the top of my head, but it's not uncommon to speed the recording up a hair to tighten things up). I wanna say there's some Pantera that's like a 1/4 step flat. And isn't one of the early Metallica albums a little sharp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members angelhair0 Posted February 12, 2007 Members Share Posted February 12, 2007 This is what I was thinking. And lots of recordings are a 1/4 step sharp or flat (of course I can't think of any off the top of my head, but it's not uncommon to speed the recording up a hair to tighten things up). Really? I was trying to learn a song yesterday, can't remember what it was, and it was 1/4 off from whatever the key was and I was like WTF?! This is that common? Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members angelhair0 Posted February 12, 2007 Members Share Posted February 12, 2007 Wow, I had no idea the effects forum was the "special forum".Re-read what Murch wrote and just take a minute to think about it. Wow, you're an ass. (I could post a smiley, but I won't.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hbar Posted February 12, 2007 Members Share Posted February 12, 2007 both of you are confused on what A-440 means. maybe the person who made that claim is too. i haven't used that particular pitch shifter, but i would guess that it works fine if you tune a half step up/down. that's the same thing as playing the same note up/down a fret.alternate tunings shift notes up or down on the fretboard, just like using a capo or fretting a note in a different place. an open low E string in standard tuning is the same pitch as playing the first fret on a low E string tuned a half step down. a pitch shifter wouldn't know the difference.there are tons of frequencies out there. A-440 refers to the frequency that an A below middle C is tuned to, and all other pitches are tuned relative to that pitch. it's what deteremines what frequency an D5 is, etc. it's what most instruments made in the last 100 years are tuned to. i'd imagine that properly intonating a guitar tuned to anything other than A-440 would require different fret spacing.Right, I get all that, but doesn't the HR2 need to know what frequency to expect as the tonic in order to calculate the intervals properly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members claffman Posted February 12, 2007 Members Share Posted February 12, 2007 Wouldn't it be relative to whatever the note is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hbar Posted February 12, 2007 Members Share Posted February 12, 2007 Wouldn't it be relative to whatever the note is?Then why do you have to tell it what key you're in? I'll grant everybody that I'm probably not thinking this through very clearly, but I haven't heard a good explanation as to what the HR2 is actually doing. I mean, a whammy doesn't need to know what key you're in... And another thing, what if you want to play in F#...where do you set the key knob? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members angelhair0 Posted February 12, 2007 Members Share Posted February 12, 2007 Then why do you have to tell it what key you're in? Because, if you know anything about theory (NOT trying to insult you by any means, just let me make a point), you can't just play, let's say, an E major scale and use your Whammy to harmonize at a major 3rd up. The Whammy will play a major 3rd up to what ever note you play rather than the 3rd that each note is assigned in that E major scale. For instance, F# is a note in the E major scale. Within that scale, an F#'s "3rd up" is an A. With a Whammy, it's going to play you an A#. That is theoretically incorrect if you're playing in E major, and it won't sound good if you're doing, for isntance, a solo during a part in E major. The HR-2 "knows" what key you're playing in because you turn the knob to that E major setting, and it harmonizes accordingly. Therefore, if you set it to E major, it is going to play an A when you play an F#, a B when you play a G#, etc. And of course, there is always the given statement that there are no rules for writing and playing music... harmonize and play whatever the {censored} scales and notes you want. My rant above is strictly for those interested in harmonizing within a key and strictly that key. I hope I explained that clear enough. And again, not trying to insult anyones intelligence, it just seems that some people don't understand the difference between an HR-2, PS-5, and other "smart" harmonizers in comparison to lets say, a Whammy, HOG, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members angelhair0 Posted February 12, 2007 Members Share Posted February 12, 2007 And another thing, what if you want to play in F#...where do you set the key knob? Depends... if you are playing in F# minor, set it to the relative scale, which is A major. If you are playing in F# major, set it to the relative scale, which is... {censored}... Eb minor. Well, then you're {censored}ed! Or maybe you can use the voice knobs to compensate. I don't know... I've never played one And for this thread's reference: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kevorkazito Posted February 12, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 12, 2007 Great info! So what I can determine from the facts is that the HR-2 will not work properly drop-tuned *unless* you set the key relative to your drop-tuned scenario. Eg.If I am in the key of G in my drop-tuned world, I have to tell the Harmonist to track the key of F#. I see it now. Although I really want to test it further to see if I can find any sort of operational dependence on the A-440 thing. Anyone else have a clue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hbar Posted February 12, 2007 Members Share Posted February 12, 2007 If you are playing in F# major, set it to the relative scale, which is... {censored}... Eb minor. Well, then you're {censored}ed! Further adding to my confusion on this pedal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ben Glass Posted February 12, 2007 Members Share Posted February 12, 2007 how about if you purposefuly set it wrong? do you get messed up sounds?can it be used in a good way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members angelhair0 Posted February 12, 2007 Members Share Posted February 12, 2007 How does the HR2 know what frequency your E is, in order to properly determine what degree was played, and then to properly calculate the frequency for the harmony? Or have I missed something? If I understand your question correctly, then no, it doesn't need to know your frequency. Whether you tune to standard E, or whether you tune to D and play the 2nd fret on your E string, etc., it's still E, therefore if you set the HR-2 to E, it will harmonize accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members angelhair0 Posted February 12, 2007 Members Share Posted February 12, 2007 And of course, there is always the given statement that there are no rules for writing and playing music... harmonize and play whatever the {censored} scales and notes you want. My rant above is strictly for those interested in harmonizing within a key and strictly that key. So yes Go for it! Make noise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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