Guitar effects *sequencer*

[Kuroyume]

I hate multi-effects pedals! Having banks and banks of sounds to choose from is all great and wonderful. What I would rather have is something where I can choose a set of sounds that represent a song and just click through as different parts occur.

 

For instance, let's say that I'm doing "Fade to Black" by Metalllica. The first brief part is clean, the second part is the intro lead, the next part is clean, the next heavy distortion, clean, heavy distortion, lead. This is what I want - a set of sound settings in this order for this song (clean, lead, clean, distortion, clean, distortion, lead) with a click to the song and a click through each sound setting. Unfortunately, I don't have like 'two sounds' that I play. I play various artists and would need dozens of sounds. Most of these pedals (and rack devices) don't have the ability to rearrange, organize, and group like this.

 

Is there *any* multi-effects pedal or device that can do this (and for less than the cost of a 40' RV)?

 

Thanks,

Kuroyume

[Purplexi]

I have heard of some company that offered random selection cueing of an effects bank, I'll try and recall. If not I'm pretty sure Z.Vex has something to simulate that.

[DanJep]

So you basically want something to switch all of your effects for each section of the song? It might be cheaper to hire a midget to push buttons for you.

[MegaTom]

Just about any Midi capable effects unit and a midi sequencer should be able do this for you.

[Kuroyume]

So you basically want something to switch all of your effects for each section of the song? It might be cheaper to hire a midget to push buttons for you.

I don't use individual effects pedals (blech - I stopped doing that 15 years ago).

I do have a Shortboard for my Line 6 Flextone III and an 'el-cheapo' Digitech RP200 (hey, I've had an Eventide Harmonizer, Roland GR-33 MIDI-synth, and so forth but they were older and the digital sound wasn't as good then - plus I've ebbed-flowed on equipment over time due to financial situations).

The Line 6 does have a piece of software that lets you load and save sound banks and edit them on the computer - but this isn't the same as what I want.

You find me the midget, I'll feed him marshmallows.

[Kuroyume]

Just about any Midi capable effects unit and a midi sequencer should be able do this for you.

 

 

The Line 6 is MIDI capable (this is how the Line 6/software transmit back and forth). I don't think it allows MIDI sequencing though - on the fly especially. Maybe some other software would work (?).

 

Have any recommendations for multi-effects unit and software that would allow this type of thing?

 

Also, not being totally experienced with MIDI sequencing, would this allow user-triggered changes or would they need to be timed. I'm definitely looking for the former - something where I can kick each effect setting in as needed during play and not having to hope for absolute/automated timing precision on switching.

 

Setting the 'song' set doesn't bother me much. My main concern here is not having to find the appropriate sounds and click back and forth (several times sometimes) on a switch. Nothing more distracting than trying to go from a clean picking section to a distorted lead in less than a second and miss-clicking or miss clicking!

[SUPER VELCROBOY]

I hate multi-effects pedals! Unfortunately, I don't have like 'two sounds' that I play. I play various artists and would need dozens of sounds. Most of these pedals (and rack devices) don't have the ability to rearrange, organize, and group like this.

 

this is incorrect. Rack effects are exactly what you want. More specifically, what you want is midi implementation to retrieve presets. These presets are saved on a dedicated midi foot controller, which can then be recalled for each part of the song.

 

Rack effects all have midi implementation. You can even use pedals. These can be switched in a out with a rack midi switcher which in turned is controlled by the foot controller. the beauty of rack processor is that you can have a bunch of different effects turn on and off together and saved as presets. These presets are recalled by the foot controller.

[Kuroyume]

 

this is incorrect. Rack effects are exactly what you want. More specifically, what you want is midi implementation to retrieve presets. These presets are saved on a dedicated midi foot controller, which can then be recalled for each part of the song. Rack effects all have midi implementation. You can even use pedals. These can be switched in a out with a rack midi switcher which in turned is controlled by the foot controller. the beauty of rack processor is that you can have a bunch of different effects turn on and off together and saved as presets. These presets are recalled by the foot controller.

 

 

When I said 'rack devices' I guess that I meant those that I've seen and within financial goals (the only 'rack device' that I've owned is the Eventide Harmonizer). I can't afford $10000 to do this simplistic sounding thing. $1000 or so might be worthwhile - this isn't my living (I'm a computer programmer) so something affordable is requested.

 

Again, can you suggest brands/models to accomplish this? There are tons of choices out there - sound quality, effects parameter control, configurability, anything that I havent' considered are all determinations on what to pursue.

 

Thanks!

[SUPER VELCROBOY]

 

When I said 'rack devices' I guess that I meant those that I've seen and within financial goals (the only 'rack device' that I've owned is the Eventide Harmonizer). I can't afford $10000 to do this simplistic sounding thing. $1000 or so might be worthwhile - this isn't my living (I'm a computer programmer) so something affordable is requested.

 

 

okay i realize you are using a hyperbole. Rack effects don't have to cost $10,000. They can cost that much, but pedals can easily cost $600 each. Racks are generally more expensive, but luckily there are cheap options that sound good. By cheap I'm talking $200-$300. But my original point to you is that the solution you are seeking doesn't have to involve rack. It can be pedals or rack or both. However the common denominator is going to be midi controllers and a midi switcher. There is nothing special about racks. But they use midi messages, which are way more versatile that stomping a bunch of pedals.

 

I am using a rocktron xpression which cost $200. The modulation is very good for the price. There are some older models that some like better (intellifex and replifex). You can also check out the G-major. There are a bunch. On the grand scheme of things, i am a relative rack noob, only because i haven't used a lot of racks. it's too expensive to experiment, but i know enough to play them well. You need a midi controller to do what you want. Look up the voodoo lab GCX, ground controller pro, and similar. There are a bunch, and also some check ones like the midimate, etc. Some cheap some expensive.

 

okay read this article, it's decent...

http://www.musicplayers.com/tutorials/guitars/2006/0306_MIDIFootControllers.php

 

also check out the threads at the monster rack page.

 

I think for a minimum decent setup, you will need to spend at least $800 (controller, switcher, processor, rack space, combined with existing effects etc). Probably less than 1k. If you think about it, it's not too bad... a board with 10 pedals easily > $1000 and some.

[Kuroyume]

Now you see where my confusion and naivety lie.

 

I've experience with MIDI 'songs' on computers (Cakewalk et al), MIDI synth (Roland GR and pickup), and the MIDI on the Line 6 but that is about it.

 

Sounds like there will be several components to achieve this. I will read the article and look up the mentioned models. Unfortunately, neither the Line 6 Flextone III nor the Digitech RP200 have MIDI of this level (the latter has none).

 

Would this all be self-contained or would a computer 'moderator' be required? Sounds like the rack effect and MIDI pedal would be self contained for the purpose.

 

Monster rack page here?

 

Thanks again!

[SUPER VELCROBOY]

Sounds like there will be several components to achieve this. I will read the article and look up the mentioned models. Unfortunately, neither the Line 6 Flextone III nor the Digitech RP200 have MIDI of this level (the latter has none). Would this all be self-contained or would a computer 'moderator' be required? Sounds like the rack effect and MIDI pedal would be self contained for the purpose. Monster rack page here?

 

 

Monster rack.... there is a drop down link on the bottom right of this page.

 

What amp and effects do you have right now? You have the line6 and digitech? I am not familiar with those.

 

okay, check out these videos. They feature the voodoo lab switcher and commander. It's not what i have, but it will give you an idea of what you can do with midi. There are many ways to skin a cat, which is what's so good and confusion about this all.

 

[YOUTUBE]FIRnr3xPLsE[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]f7rlAGYcB3c[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]-2soxmWL_HA[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]2GJCw8w9Jkc[/YOUTUBE]

[Kuroyume]

According to Line 6:

 

All of the Line 6 products equipped with MIDI inputs and outputs can be controlled by another external MIDI device. Most commonly used are the Voodoo Lab Ground Control and the Behringer FCB 1010.

 

Okay. This sounds good (? - there are unanswered questions at the site: some pertinent, some not). The effect/sound/amp-sim choices on the Flextone III aren't quite varied as other multi-effects pedals but this is a start.

 

Ah, you mean a forum here called "Monster Rack". Off to see the wizards.

[SUPER VELCROBOY]

According to Line 6: All of the Line 6 products equipped with MIDI inputs and outputs can be controlled by another external MIDI device. Most commonly used are the Voodoo Lab Ground Control and the Behringer FCB 1010.

 

 

yup.

not familiar with those, but if they have midi inputs, than a midi controller will allow you to controller. This is where you have to do your homework, because midi is daunting at first. You can read about it and wrap you head around it for days. Better to play and see for yourself.

 

the other forum i recommend is hugerackinc. Allow better than monster rack here. http://www.hugeracksinc.com/forum/index.php

[Kuroyume]

One reason that I ask is that it is fortuitous that my frustration has culminated at about the same time as the 'Everthing 10-20% season'. Guitar Center is cutting prices and tacking on an additional 10% discount (on a single item) for the next two days (now). I'm not so sure that I will get 'competent' advice from the store staff - sometimes good sometimes shiite. For the fun of it, I might detain one of more experiential qualities and start a construction project to 'better play and see for yourself' before purchasing. I'll skip the Gibson Guitar Robot exposition...

 

This will be a difficult proposition. I've been cantankering on this problem for some months and have only gotten down to thinking seriously about it within the past week or so. Don't want to rush into a set of equipment just for inexpensive purchase circumstances - but I do want to alleviate this situation soon.

[SUPER VELCROBOY]

i was just thinking. If you go rack, the initial start up cost is going to cost you a hefty amount. The best way is to incorporate the system you have gear into the system that you would like to have. Add one part at a time, and eventually you'll get there. So what do you want to do?

[Meriphew]

You could get a multi loop true bypass pedal, and load each loop with the pedals you need, then you'd be able to switch all of them on/off with one click.

[SUPER VELCROBOY]

You could get a multi loop true bypass pedal, and load each loop with the pedals you need, then you'd be able to switch all of them on/off with one click.

 

 

This is a simple solution, but I don't think this is what he is looking for, if you read the op. He wants to be able to switch between presets for each part of a song for different songs. This is not going to be possible with a 50 dollar passive looper. He needs midi controller or something like the voodoo lab commander.

[Kalebmation]

www.thegigrig.com

[simeon]

if you can find a rack fx unit that has all the effects you need, then you only need to get a cheap midi pedal and you'll be away

all you'll need to do is set up the sounds you need in the fx unit and then do a bit of midi mapping

so for example, if you need 5 different sounds for a particular song, then program the midi pedal (or the fx unit) to select those five sounds in order when you press buttons 1-5 on the footpedal. this config can be stored in bank 1. you can then config bank 2 for another song...bank 3 for another etc etc

if you spend

[BmoreTele]

You may have to get over your dislike of multi-effects, because what you are asking for is what they are designed to deliver - presets of specific combinations of effects.

Two other options may be the TC G System or the new Carl Martin Octaswitch.

[Kuroyume]

You may have to get over your dislike of multi-effects, because what you are asking for is what they are designed to deliver - presets of specific combinations of effects. Two other options may be the TC G System or the new Carl Martin Octaswitch.

No. They are designed to deliver specific combinations of preset and configurable sets of effects. That is, in singular or sometimes 'banks' of four or five settings. That is great if I have all year to set up each sound and slot it exactly where I will need it and never need to move or overwrite them. Direct interfaces to most of these devices (and I've owned a few - probably 10 or 20 in my time) are hideously confusing and nasty to deal with. Thus the reason why I tend to forego the process. Boss mutli-effects are nice but again I never could sit down and develop a strategy for making all of the appropriate settings and grouping them.

With the Line 6, I can do my configuration directly in software - much more pleasant - and download it to the amplifier via MIDI cables. But this still isn't what I want. One thing that I don't like about the Line 6 Shortboard (or the Longboard for that matter) is the clicky buttons. They aren't 'foot pedals', they are buttons. Yech. My fault for liking the amp and their fault for the hideous design of the boards - too many things to click and not well designed.

Beyond just the idea of banking, which is limited, I want a sequencing of effects and more control over what is what. How do you remember the 'songs' relevant to a bank? You write them down - and then rewrite them down when you change them. Then you lose the paper and start over again. I have a quad core, 8GB, 1.5TB computer with dual-boot and program in C/C++/Java yet I have to resort to sticky notes for my guitar equipment... ?

[MegaTom]

I'm confused.

 

Do you really want to "sequence" your effects changes as you say? Or do you want to change them yourself?

 

If you want them to be sequenced (as in the patch changes are pre-recorded in *sequence* and changed on the fly *for* you, not *by* you)... you can use a computer program that can record and playback MIDI program and control changes. Logic will do this, as will Digital Performer and several other MIDI-capable programs. Just connect your program to your effects unit(s) via a USB MIDI interface and start learning your MIDI.

 

If you want to retain total control over your effects, then the idea of using program banks and a floor based MIDI controller has already been presented.

 

If you're looking for something else, then I don't know what to say.

[Kuroyume]

Sequenced *by* me! Arghh. As I said, I don't want something that changes at a precise time - but I want to be able to click through a sequence of effects settings (go to song on sequencer, play part 1 (clean), click - play part 2 (lead), click - play part 3 (clean), etc.). Super Velcroboy gets what I'm trying to do.

 

Yeah, this can be done on a multi-effects pedal with four/five bank buttons. But you will have to remember which banks represent which songs - and forbid that you need five/six settings. Then what do you do. But, you can't just click to the next setting - you have to remember which setting in the bank is what. The DigiTech RP200 is worse - as you only have 'back' and 'forth' foot pedals. That annoys me more than other multi-effects pedals.

 

A MIDI sequencer would allow any effects settings of a multi-effects unit to be sequenced per song - and I could probably give a nice name to the sequence there to know which song it is (instead of 'MFTB_CLN' for "Metallica 'Fade to Black' Clean setting in the ME pedal). I stopped using MS DOS with 8.3 filenames over ten years ago.

 

Although I could connect my MIDI cables to my computer, if I could avoid it that would be better. This may be an option that is more affordable. Will have to review the MIDI options for the Line 6 to see what can be done there - that is, is it sequenceable. This would at least allow a test of the software for veracity. I would still probably need the MIDI pedal attached --- where? Attaching it to the computer might start becoming a bit like being on stage with all of the cables running across the front instead of the back of the equipment. Would need to reinstall the X-Fi Platinum sound card with the front panel (only thing with MIDI ports on the computer).

 

What would you suggest for MIDI programming from the computer? I have old versions of Cakewalk and that is about it. Doubt that Guitar Pro would be usable here.

[SUPER VELCROBOY]

some fancier foot controllers will allow you to name the presets, as opposed to presets 1, 2, 3, 4 etc. That way you will know be able to tell what song part is which. This is a super convenient feature, but i don't think is crucial. If i were to set up the presets, i would write on a piece of paper what song correlate with which preset. So like preset 1, 2, 3, 4 for song A and preset 5, 6, 7 and 8 for song B and so on.

 

This is the rocktron midimate. It has 10 pc and 10 cc messages and you can name your presets. It is cheap $150-200 but it is by rocktron and i have heard it is pretty good. I have been curious about it for a long time, and i would try it but i already have an Axess MFC5 as my controller.

 

[MegaTom]

I was also gonna say that any halfway decent FX processor will also let you name the patches.

 

My old Digitech 2120 allowed for naming patches, and those patch names would also show up on my Control 1 floor board.