Keyboard/Mixing/Recording Studio Monitors

[Palaver]

Hey everyone,

 

What do you guys use for at home? As of now, I am running an Ableton and I am putting together my own home studio/DAW and I've just started getting into softsynths and the like...

 

Anyway, for referencing and monitoring, I am looking at near-field monitors. As of now, I have a pair of AKG k171 DJ headphones and a set of {censored}ty MA-10A Edirol monitors. They're great little computer speakers but I need something on par with my setup (which I have listed at the bottom).

 

I was looking for advice on the following monitors. If I am having a major oversight, or you seriously think I should be looking at another monitor then feel free to suggest! At this point, I am considering the following models in no particular order:

 

1)Mackie HR824mkII $750 per speaker

 

2)M-Audio Studiophile BX8a $506 a pair

 

3)M-Audio EX Series EX66 Reference Monitors $627 per speaker

 

The ones that intrigue me the most are the M-Audio EX66 but I am not doing any surround mixing so really, it's between the HR824 and the BX8a. Unless I should reconsider? Are the Mackie speakers really worth more than twice the price of the BX8a model? From some preliminary research, I know there are complaints about the highs on the BX8a model and there are complaints about the mid-range of the HR824s and that the Mackie model makes everything sound too good. I also know that the HR824s are used by a lot more industry professionals.

 

The major catch is that the BX8a model is less than twice the price of the Mackie model. I am willing to save up for the Mackie HR824s if they are THAT much better but I am worried that they aren't as good as the old model (isn't the current manufacturing moved to China?).

 

Anyway, I am kind of lost, and I know that in the end, it does come down to my ears, but I am not in a great situation in order to put them side-by-side. I just want a damn great sounding set of speakers that represent my Ableton mixes properly. I want to make the most professional sounding product possible...

 

After I figure out Ableton and I am comfortable with this and Reason (I will be purchasing Reason 4.0 when that arrives), I will obviously need a Nuendo or some other professional software package to 'up' the recording quality... that will probably be next summer.

 

For my DAW, I am currently using a MOTU 828MkII (mixer/preamp/interface) and I have a Rode NTK studio tube condensor mic on the way. I am running this in sync with a MacBook Pro and a Novation Remote SL controller. I am just doing my own thing, mostly with my Triton, and software samples/synths, etc.

 

Any advice on gear, or any tidbits or recommendations on what I should acquire would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thank-you kindly,

Phil

[Cygnus64]

 

Hey everyone, What do you guys use for at home?

 

 

Tannoy PB8 II monitors

KRK ST8 monitors

AKG 240 headphones

[MuzikB]

Trust your own ears and choose what you feel is right. Be patient and listen.

 

The synths only sound as good as the speakers throwing the sound at you.

 

A good name in a product goes a long way.

 

Choose products that work for you.

 

 

I'm a guy that's spent a great deal of money going through equipment and has only been happy with a few combinations. It's that nexus of happiness that helps bring about creativity.

[P321]

Here's a truth you almost never hear when people talk about monitors, although I don't know why - The room you're in is almost as important as the speakers.

 

Unless you're prepared to test and modify your room (hang crap on the walls like bass traps etc) pick whatever speaker offers you the most control over the sound. Cheap(ish) speakers with lots of adjustment controls would likely do a better job for monitoring than expensive speakers in a room with no adjustments made. Also, if the room is just an average bedroom type (3x4m size) or smaller getting powerful speakers with a lot of low end probably isn't a good idea (EG the 624's might be better suited than the 824's in those sorts of situations.)

[MuzikB]

^^^^^^

 

What I own......

 

 

What I plan to own in the near future.......

 

 

[John B NYC]

I own genelec 8040a's pretty much the best out of the bunch... in their price range the dynaaudios are nice aswell though

[Palaver]

Thanks for all the replies. It's greatly appreciated. However, do any of you have any experience in comparing the Mackie Hr series to the M-Audio Studiophile BX8a?

 

Usually, you get what you pay for... but are these M-Audio Monitors actually in the same league as the Mackie ones? I've read that they are, but it's from people who own the M-Audios so obviously... it's biased! The M-Audio pair would be less than half the cost of the Mackies hence the question.

 

Thanks so much, and if there's any other suggestion throw em in. I'm am looking at all of them guys.

 

Thanks,

Phil

[MuzikB]

Mackie's and Genelec's are something of industry standards. M-Audio's are NOT. That said though, you can still get great results from just about any monitor system as long as you know them well.

 

Some of my best work was done on this....

 

 

Fostex PS 3.1 system.

 

I still own this by the way.

[Cygnus64]

Thanks for all the replies. It's greatly appreciated. However, do any of you have any experience in comparing the Mackie Hr series to the M-Audio Studiophile BX8a? Usually, you get what you pay for... but are these M-Audio Monitors actually in the same league as the Mackie ones?

 

It might not be possible to answer that:

 

Monitors have either one or two jobs:

 

1. Accuracy

 

2. Inspiration

 

Some people disagree with #2. I dont, because I have to produce results, and if the monitors sound like crap I am going to get fatigued and lose interest. You assumedly have to figure out which monitors are more "accurate" and thats not an easy task. Therefore, assuming that both pairs are pretty decent, I would just pick the ones that I actually liked. When the salesman plays me 800 buck monitors and chastizes me because I like the $400 ones better, that truly is silly. If they sound better, they sound better.

 

I have two pairs of monitors for a/b'ing. However, my other monitors are my delco car stereo and my Sony walkman. I learn more from the car than the others combined, I learn what actually comes through in a real-world, noisy environment.

 

The key to my monitors is not how my music sounds. Its how OTHER music sounds. I am constantly listening to anything and everything. I know how thousands of songs sound on my monitors, to me that is the key. When I play music at a certain volume and go into the kitchen, the cabinets vibrate a certain way. If I get that with my tracks I know I am doing something right.

[John B NYC]

Also on the cheap check out the bluesky setups.

[Palaver]

^^^^^^ What I own...... What I plan to own in the near future.......

 

I will be living in a small apartment... and after reading the posts... the Mackie HR624s seem to be winning me over. Down the road, I could always buy the Mackie sub if I want to get retarded. Those JBLs just look sick. Are they that much better than the Mackies? I was reading about them... that room calibration thing is just wild. Is it just a gimmick though?

 

Good thread.

 

Cheers,

Phil

[ChromaLord]

The Mackies are made in China now- so dont buy.

Genelecs sound like home stereo.

JBL are vastly improved but still JBL.

Try the KRK or Dynaudio.

[danchen]

Try Adam A7.

In EU they cost about 400

[donaldcrunk]

what he said about the mackies. don't buy a mackie speaker product, the quality control is no where near what it was.

 

they're mainly used by hip-hop producers, because of the bass output for the most part -and they're powered. powered speakers (and nearfield monitors in general!) are rare in the pro audio world, and the only true 'industry standard' monitor i know of is of course the venerable NS10.

 

 

that said, take a look at your room first and foremost. if you can't do much to your room, what's the point in buying nice speakers?

 

check out this here link, not all of it is relevant to you but a lot of it probably will be:

 

http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html

 

 

if you can't at _least_ manage the bass problems your room has, just spend

 

make sure you have a pair of decent headphones for detail management, as well. A/Bing between those and monitors is usually poo-pood in the pro audio world, but in a home studio situation its fine.

 

if you want to get better speakers because you plan to fix up your room down the road, by all means do so - but don't expect to get any better results with them than the cheaper speakers.

 

 

 

on the subject of the JBL LSR432 series (the pictured monitors), i don't trust them any further than i can throw them. a friend recently bought a pair, and i actually like his mixes the old way better. probably uses similar room diagnostic technology as the DBX driverack series, and serious PA guys won't touch those things with a pole. there's still too many variables for that technology to work well, IMO.

[stikygum]

 

Try Adam A7. In EU they cost about 400

[MuzikB]

 

I will be living in a small apartment... and after reading the posts... the Mackie HR624s seem to be winning me over. Down the road, I could always buy the Mackie sub if I want to get retarded. Those JBLs just look sick. Are they that much better than the Mackies? I was reading about them... that room calibration thing is just wild. Is it just a gimmick though? Good thread. Cheers, Phil

 

 

There really isn't a better per se in product. Just what works for you and your situation / needs. I've heard great things about the JBL setup and for someone who is constantly moving every 2 years but having your monitors in a fixed spot, the room calibration does wonders since I can't acoustically treat a room because of renter agreements. So for my siituation, they are perfect. Mind you that I also have a desk designed for audio work. With all this in consideration, I think that they are excellent Project Studio monitors.

 

Mind you that I didn't say Mixing (Yamaha NS10) or Mastering monitors (Genelec's).

 

That calibration is no gimmick. When properly setup, it works wonders in untreated rooms.

 

PS: I have Mackie 624's NOT 624 MkII's. They're right about the China thing. If your going to go Mackie, try for the better built Mk1 models. Very WRONG about the Hip-Hop statement.

[donaldcrunk]

i've no problem with the mackies as 'project monitors', but i fail to see the difference between 'project' and 'mixing' monitors.

 

and purchasing used mk1 monitors is equally as dangerous as purchasing mk2's, really. i do not condone used speakers. the hip hop thing i stand by, as i've done two or three 'in-home' mix sessions this summer for hip hoppers and they all used 824s.

 

 

back at the JBLs, you must realize that the included reference mic will _not_ do well with freqs under 40k. that won't help the bass problem at all, and now that i listen to my friend's mixes some more i'm hearing a lot less low-mids.

 

 

give me a bit, i'm going to upload the track i'm talking about so you can hear the bass issues that monitor setup is giving him and exactly why i don't recommend it.

[donaldcrunk]

ok.

 

took me a little while to find a suitable file-hosting service

 

http://boomp3.com/m/5028d8b066ee

 

 

take a listen to the bass issues in that track. that's after calibration of the JBLs with both pink noise and sine wave.

 

of course, there is a certain amount of human error that could enter into things, but this guy's a fairly experienced dude so he knows what he's doing (most of the time ).

 

Muzik and Pal, i'd like to tell you to try it out for yourself but with stuff like monitors it's really hard, that's why i'm being a stubborn dick about this .

[P321]

Hmm, I'm not sure about something that does "auto" correction. Although there's definite value in using a good mic and some frequency monitoring software to help you calibrate, I still think you're best to trust what works for your own ears rather than what a DSP chip thinks is a neutral frequency. Remember your ears are the other variable.. they have dips and boosts in what they hear too.. EG if you're over 35 you would almost definitely need to boost the high end slightly more to hear exactly what a 15 year old would hear with the same speakers.

 

It's also true to say that, particularly at the extremely low end, if you're in a pretty bad room then EQ'ing your monitors will help but it's not going to solve really bad problems. I would hope those JBL's allow manual adjustment too, since your own ears might well do a better job especially at the low end.

[Khazul]

Event TR8-XL monitors

AKG K 240 studio cans.

 

I'm probably going to replace the cans with either AKG K 240 DF or Seinnheiser HD650 cans along with AKG K 271 for vocal/accoustic monitoring by session musicians/vocalists.

 

On monitors, Ill probably add another smaller and higher quality pair along with a monitor matrix. Ive come to the clonclusion that larger monitors are great for monitoring and feeling the bass while playing, but in a less than ideal accoustic space - they are a pain in the arse and so can be really hard to mix with due to bass modes etc. Smaller monitors seem to be less impacted by their surroundings in a near field scenario. Baffle type can make a hell of a difference as well in a poor accoustic space.

 

If you are going to buy cans now - look for types with "Diffuse Field" equalised. Thats kind of the cans equivelent of studio monitors vs hifi speakers.

 

 

On the JBLs - they are basically very good sounding monitors. Personally I do think the the room calibration thing can be a bit of a gimmick - the problem in you simply cant EQ out standing waves - you phyically have to block or disperse them. The best an EQ can do is to tone them down, but the effect of them is still there - typical example is where the bass level can vary wildly in just a few inches of head movement, or the other extreme is where a particular note in the bass seems to spand out above all others and worse when you have fairly fat bass sounds, they all start to sound like the same note - you cant really use EQ to compensate for that. Also the other typical room problem is imaging due to higher frequency sounds bouncing around the wall etc - specifically the strin first reflections competing with the direct sound for you attension as it arrives at allmost the same time and too close to the drect sound for your head to use the delays cues to figure out the direction of a sound source. Agsin the only way you can fix that is through absorption and/or dispersal - you cant fix it with EQ.

 

About all you can use to the EQ for is or match the speaker to a response you are allready for more used to working with or to correct for the bass loading/speaker proximity effects to some minimal degree , but as that usually comes with resonance, then the EQ cant kill the resonance.

 

Mackie 624s are IMHO a very good choice.

[Cygnus64]

 

i've no problem with the mackies as 'project monitors', but i fail to see the difference between 'project' and 'mixing' monitors.

 

 

Nor can I. Since 99.9999999% of us do not have a separate mixing room, there is no difference.

 

IMO the days of "project" v. "studio" are long over. Some tunes on the radio are coming out of people's living rooms.

[carbon111]

I highly recomend the ADAMs as well. Very accurate, very flat.

[Khazul]

 

IMO the days of "project" v. "studio" are long over. Some tunes on the radio are coming out of people's living rooms.

 

 

 

Really? I thought they were made in their toilets.

[Cygnus64]

Really? I thought they were made in their toilets.

 

No. It just sounds like it.

[Yoozer]

What do you guys use for at home?

Ableton too here .

 

The major catch is that the BX8a model is less than twice the price of the Mackie model.

Don't skimp on monitors (as in don't go below $1k a pair).

 

isn't the current manufacturing moved to China?

I don't know, but what I do know is if quality assurance and quality control are in order, location means a lot less than it used to.

 

After I figure out Ableton and I am comfortable with this and Reason (I will be purchasing Reason 4.0 when that arrives), I will obviously need a Nuendo or some other professional software package to 'up' the recording quality... that will probably be next summer.

This is not necessary as the mixing engines between the DAWs don't make much of a difference. Nuendo's basically Cubase n.5 where n is the newest version. The main advantage for ProTools LE are the plugins you get with it, for Cubase it's the timestretching algorithm (which is allowed to slurp up way more CPU). VSTs just stay the same. Nuendo and Cubase both have extra bits you're most likely never to use (surround, video support, etc).

 

Any advice on gear, or any tidbits or recommendations on what I should acquire would be greatly appreciated.

Look into the Black Lion Audio mod for the 828.