MicrowaveXT, JD-800, or original V-synth?

[psychematic]

So I've narrowed down my first hardware purchase to one of these three synths. I'm a psytrance/Goa producer with a budget of $1000. I am looking for unique, high quality tones but more important for me is the overall workflow and control surface. I'm the kind of guy who likes to sit down and start turning knobs to be surprised and inspired.

 

I have a full software setup on my computer so I'm looking for something out of my hardware that I cannot get through software... which really boils down to the custom control surface. The music I make requires a lot of real-time tweaking.

 

And I don't do presets. They will be wiped from the machine when I get it.

 

My hunch is the V-synth... but the Microwave and the JD-800 have such a robust fan-base that I feel I must consider them as well. I've heard entire Goa albums made from the JD-800 and all those sliders look like heaven. The MicrowaveXT seems like an overall favorite, but I'm curious if there are modern software synths that can stand up to it these days.

 

Any advice, stories or suggestions (even other synths) would be appreciated.

[Umbra]

Why don't you get a virus?

[carbon111]

The MicrowaveXT seems like an overall favorite, but I'm curious if there are modern software synths that can stand up to it these days.

 

Well, as the host of the Microwave resource site ( http://www.carbon111.com/mwxt.html ), I'd recommend it first!

 

 

I can say, however, that there's one piece of software that comes close:

 

[electrik force]

Hi there! I listen to all sorts of trance. My best bet is that you get the microwave XT. Astral projection uses one alot on there tracks. The V-synth is also good for it too if you got a couple of drumloops, you can create some twisted things with it. However, your best bet is the microwave XT. Astral projection aslo use the JD-800 ALOT to on their tracks. Why won't you try to get both? The Nord Leads have a very organic sound to them. They cost 1000 and less.

[psychematic]

I'm not all that jazzed about the Nords and Viruses... I've got all the VA stuff covered in software. Besides, the V-synth has some VA functionality anyways, though that's just a nice addition and not the reason I'm considering it.

 

Interesting with Massive being like the Microwave XT. I've played with the demo a bit and liked it enough, but the price tag has so far turned me off. I'll have to go back to it and give it a second look.

[dereksljuka]

The Nord and Virus go beyond VA. You can get digital wavetable-like sounds out of the Nord by using the "synced noise" feature. Not sure about the features of Virus A/B/C but TI does a LOT.

[mrcpro]

V-Synth. Just 'cause I want one myself, and someone's got to recommend it.

[ElectricPuppy]

So what does Massive lack vs. the XT, Carbon? 'Cause if it's reasonably close, I MIGHT consider lifting my self-imposed soft-synth ban for it.

[setAI]

v-synth since you can get the complete PPG wavetables for it [sweepable with variphrase]- http://www.geocities.com/gerald950@btinternet.com/advanced_creations.html?1143653720949 and JD banks are easy to come by- you can do all the sounds from the XT and JD plus with COSM and varipharase you can process these sounds in many more ways than the originals- so the sound pallette is both inclusive of the other two and much much larger

[psychematic]

 

- http://www.geocities.com/gerald950@btinternet.com/advanced_creations.html?1143653720949 and JD banks are easy to come by- you can do all the sounds from the XT and JD plus with COSM and varipharase you can process these sounds in many more ways than the originals- so the sound pallette is both inclusive of the other two and much much larger

 

 

I know these "what should I buy" posts can be tedious and eye-rolling... but this response is exactly the sort of information I was looking for, and probably couldn't get it easily with shot-in-the-dark internet research. Thank you.

[carbon111]

So what does Massive lack vs. the XT, Carbon?

 

A tactile interface

 

Seriously, its similar but the NI wavetables are unique - they're different from the XT. The architectures are different but there's just something about Massive that has that XT vibe - Massive's architecture is closer to the Waldorf Q, only with more wavetables. There's a free demo if you want to check out its UI or sound quality...its a bit of a CPU hog though ...make sure you're using a decent soundcard too...

 

To the OP: Unfortunately no soundset for the V-synth will ever emulate the architecture or sound of the Microwave XT very well, variphrase or no, there are way too many variables not duplicated. The V-Synth, however, is an excellent board for amazing timbral morphs and deep sound design - I owned one myself for a while and may pick up a rack again one of these days.

 

If you want the "wavetable sound" get a dedicated wavetable synth like the Microwave XT, Virus TI or Fizmo...or even NI's Massive if you want to go soft and save some $$$.

[raffor]

It depends what you want from you synth. The XT can sound analog and digital, has great filter models, sync, FM for filter and oscillators, effects, and a good workflow for what it offers.

 

The JD-800 is a great synth but lacks the analog character, better for these pcm sample sounds. Good strings/pads. Do not care much for the digital filter but it has some great effects.

 

The V-Synth probably has the worse workflow. It is probably the most versatile synth but lacks character. I do not have too much experience with that synth, so I cannot really say much more.

 

If you like a real synthesizer get the XT.

[droolmaster0]

So, you'll get a different opinion from everyone, and not of it makes a tit of difference. You'll like what you like, and not what you don't. I'll say - go for the xt, but maybe you'll like an overrated piece of dog snot like the vsynth better, which is your constitutional right.

[pighood]

With a grand, you can snag a Fizmo AND an XT.

 

Red hot wave death.

[psychematic]

 

So, you'll get a different opinion from everyone, and not of it makes a tit of difference. You'll like what you like, and not what you don't. I'll say - go for the xt, but maybe you'll like an overrated piece of dog snot like the vsynth better, which is your constitutional right.

 

 

Yeah, but if enough people chime in loving the XT (like they seem to be now) then that gives me pause. And because of this thread I'm now aware of the FIZMO, which I wasn't before. These threads do have merit.

[drxcm]

Don't get me wrong I love the XT, but the Virus just seems to be an inherently more 'trance' kinda synth.. You can't really go wrong with an XT, if you end up not liking it (unlikely), you'll prob be able to sell if for what you paid.

[Umbra]

The virus is the right choice. A nord would be ok but they are too limited except for the G2.

 

 

 

If you want the "wavetable sound" get a dedicated wavetable synth like the Microwave XT, Virus TI or Fizmo...or even NI's Massive if you want to go soft and save some $$$.

I disagree. Many many synths can emulate the wavetable sound quite well, even common ones like the ms2000 can do it reasonably. The only reason to get a wavetable synth is if that wavetable sound is a core characteristic of your music or your a collector. There isn't a genre where that sound is critical (except maybe mid to late 80's new wave) which is why there isn't a current (in production) wavetable only synth offering in production. Wavetable synthesis is a curiousity at best.

 

Don't get me wrong, I completely love the sound but it's usefulness in a musical context is limited.

[Mook]

With a grand, you can snag a Fizmo AND an XT. Red hot wave death.

 

With a grand, he can snag an XT and an MPX1.

[raffor]

 

I disagree. Many many synths can emulate the wavetable sound quite well, even common ones like the ms2000 can do it reasonably. The only reason to get a wavetable synth is if that wavetable sound is a core characteristic of your music or your a collector.

 

 

En contraire, I found that not many synths can do the wavetable thing. Mainly the PPG and Waldorf stuff. The Virus sounds different since the wavetables are different and cannot be changed by the user.

 

Of course, it depends on what you are doing with the wavetable synthesis. If you are using them as single snipplets the Virus can do some good immitation. If you start scanning the stuff via LFO or ENV there is a unique quality to the sound that only PPG/Waldorf has. And when you comapre these two, you still can hear the difference.

 

The XT is great synth and in addition to the wavetable synthesis it can do some nice analog sounds as well.

[heroesforghosts]

Pighood's suggestion is great. I have an XT and had a couple of Fizmos,and personally I liked the Fizmo better,maybe because it had a keyboard and everything was right there for tweaking.Plus,I could get some pretty weird stuff from the Fizmo that the XT can't cover.But having both would be the best if you can score them for a grand or less.

[carbon111]

Many many synths can emulate the wavetable sound quite well, even common ones like the ms2000 can do it reasonably.

 

But they can't, thats just the point.

 

The main thing about a wavetable synth is its ability to morph through a huge timbral variety during the duration of a single note, all without the use of filters, pwm, sync or other tricks.

 

Hit a key and you get a metallic bell attack that morphs into a warm buzzy analog-type saw that then moves into a coarse trumpet timbre, then a smooth violin then into a back and forth loop between a female voice and a male voice...all transitions smooth. You can do that on the Microwave XT with just one wavetable oscillator and the multistage, looping wave envelope.

Now start adding a second wavetable oscillator, sync, FM, 2 LFOs, ring modulation, a huge array of really great-sounding filters, a 16 x 16 modmatrix, and a ton of other toys and you start to get a feeling for the depth of the beast. Now that's a synth!

 

Here's a little intro to the Microwave XT for anyone curious:

http://www.carbon111.com/xt_intro.html

 

[Tusks]

My vote is for the V-synth. It seems the most open ended. Try before you buy if at all possible.

[psychematic]

I'm not looking for trance sounds or today's overplayed Virus and Nord synth stabs and squelches. I'm just looking for a great hands-on synth that gives me lots of fun real-time controls. I like flowing Goa bass with mindbending, rhythmic psytrance knob jamming over it... with whatever synth tone that suits my taste.

[setAI]

 

To the OP: Unfortunately no soundset for the V-synth will ever emulate the architecture or sound of the Microwave XT very well, variphrase or no, there are way too many variables not duplicated.

 

 

 

the problem I have with Waldorf is that the microwaves are much cleaner and thinner than the original PPG- over the years I have found that the best PPG emulation is accomplished by using samplers with a wide variety of filters/fx that are capable of sweeping loop position- for instance PPG wavetables sound much more authentic when bit reduced to their original 8 bit quality and comp'd before the filter- which waldorf synths cannot do but the v-synth can- and with a sampler if one method doesn't work you can try another- for individual sounds you can reprocess with external dynamics/fx/synth gear or software or create complex layers and resample until it sounds how you want-

[carbon111]

the problem I have with Waldorf is that the microwaves are much cleaner and thinner than the original PPG

 

They certainly can be, but they don't have to be. There are a number of settings that control bit-depth, the type of scanning (chunky or smooth) and the type of clipping (saturate or foldover)

 

for instance PPG wavetables sound much more authentic when bit reduced to their original 8 bit quality and comp'd before the filter- which waldorf synths cannot do

 

Actually they were always "fake-16-bit" - the samples were of half a wavecycle, then on playback the full wavecycle is created on the fly by adding an x/y-axis-mirror of the half-waveform just to its right. Pretty cool idea actually.

 

You can see this weird mirroring effect on all the first few PPG/Microwave/MicrowaveXT wavetables:

http://www.carbon111.com/xtwavetables.html

 

If you need a lower bit depth, that is indeed available pre-filter in the XT's waveform "aliasing" parameter. Usually everybody sets all these "quality" features to the highest settings so you don't often hear the "vintage" PPG/microwave timbres out of the XT...

 

Here's the chunk of the manual that covers these pre-filter, pre-vca Waveform features:

 

Aliasing (off / 1