(OT) VSE Mods on Steroid, Part II

[WDW]

Droolmaster0, I am not familiar with every occurrence on VSE. Therefore, I cannot speak to your personal situation.

 

However, I can assure you that there are always reasons for what happens. And there are always warnings. Whether or not those warnings are fully appreciated by the warned party is another matter.

 

In the case of allowing certain members free reign to act as they wish, I can also assure you that there are PMs sent when anyone gets out of line. Where it gets tricky is when one person's actions are widely deemed as trollish, and other members gang up on that person.

 

WD

[droolmaster0]

 

Droolmaster0, I am not familiar with every occurrence on VSE. Therefore, I cannot speak to your personal situation. However, I can assure you that there are always reasons for what happens. And there are always warnings. Whether or not those warnings are fully appreciated by the warned party is another matter. In the case of allowing certain members free reign to act as they wish, I can also assure you that there are PMs sent when anyone gets out of line. Where it gets tricky is when one person's actions are widely deemed as trollish, and other members gang up on that person. WD

 

 

Well, sure - there are reasons. But how can you be unfamiliar with what I'm saying and insist that those reasons were appropriate for a moderator. And I assure you absolutely that I was not warned. So that is false. What you are saying simply doesn't match what actually happened. I appreciate that you yourself may have good motives, but understand that this hasn't been the case with all of your compatriots, and there certainly aren't warnings all of the time. And I'm still expecting an apology for the false accusations that Tallowaters made.

[droolmaster0]

By the way, I saved the post that Tallowaters made in my fs thread. I could not get a response about it when I emailed webmaster@vintagesynth.org, which, I believe is the correct address to address an issue with moderation. This is just so out of line, and yet he was retained as a moderator. Please explain to me how a moderator should be posting stuff like this.

 

"furthermore, I would not be far from surprised if you and your buddy Psy-nox are not the ones spamming my Inbox with some of the most pathetic attempts at vulgar vile I have ever seen. Currently, I am having the messages traced and plan on following through with every legal action available to me to whomever the offender is. If you want to push the issue, I can post the messages here for all to see. If you have nothing to do with this, then I am sorry, but truth be told when I see what you have to say about me on other forums, I dont put any of it past you."

[WDW]

I am not going to get into what other moderators have done. Those are their actions/decisions. There are two sides to all of these conflicts.

 

Speaking from personal experience, I intervened in regards to some of your comments in a VSE thread, Gene, when you were getting confrontational with other members and the thread started to spin out of control. I did not ban you, but there was a warning about rules of decorum.

 

And, though at the moment I do not recall the specifics, I know that there were subsequent warning from other moderators. I saw them at the time.

 

WD

[droolmaster0]

 

I am not going to get into what other moderators have done. Those are their actions/decisions. There are two sides to all of these conflicts. Speaking from personal experience, I intervened in regards to some of your comments in a VSE thread, Gene, when you were getting confrontational with other members and the thread started to spin out of control. I did not ban you, but there was a warning about rules of decorum. And, though at the moment I do not recall the specifics, I know that there were subsequent warning from other moderators. I saw them at the time. WD

 

 

Ok then, I'll certainly trust your recollections over mine...and well - the notion that you would say that it's appropriate for a moderator to post what I just quoted in my fs thread, after jumping in and calling me a jerk....That's pretty amazing actually. You're either saying that I did something quite horrible to which his actions were appropriate (and which inference I would resent), or you're simply backing him for the sake of doing so.

[WDW]

I did not jump in this thread to discuss and debate the specifics of any individual conflicts with moderators of VSE. Rather, I came here to open the door to address general concerns about VSE. I take the opinions, criticisms and suggestions seriously. I will share them with the other moderators, in the hope that we can make VSE a better place for everyone.

 

So, I respectfully request that we not get into discussions of specific cases but into discussions of opinions, criticisms and suggestions. I appreciate your insight.

 

WD

[WDW]

 

...the notion that you would say that it's appropriate for a moderator to post what I just quoted...

 

 

I actually did not say anything one way or the other. I did not address this. I'm sticking to my "not speaking of specific cases" philosophy.

 

But I will tell you that VSE moderators receive hate mail regularly. And even death threats. So, any negative messages are taken very seriously.

 

WD

[droolmaster0]

 

I did not jump in this thread to discuss and debate the specifics of any individual conflicts with moderators of VSE. Rather, I came here to open the door to address general concerns about VSE. I take the opinions, criticisms and suggestions seriously. I will share them with the other moderators, in the hope that we can make VSE a better place for everyone. So, I respectfully request that we not get into discussions of specific cases but into discussions of opinions, criticisms and suggestions. I appreciate your insight. WD

 

 

But you cite generalities and say that this stuff doesn't happen. To someone who doesn't accept that certain stuff happens, I think it's fine to bring up examples - because you deny, with your generalities, that they occur. I posted an actual quote, which is part of my experience at VSE that goes into the statements I make about it. It doesn't seem to me that you ARE listening seriously.

[droolmaster0]

 

I actually did not say anything one way or the other. I did not address this. I'm sticking to my "not speaking of specific cases" philosophy. But I will tell you that VSE moderators receive hate mail regularly. And even death threats. So, any negative messages are taken very seriously. WD

 

 

And so they should. But there is a difference (or do you not recognize it?) between taking such a message seriously and FALSELY accusing someone publicly of sending them.

[Acid Hazard]

 

But I will tell you that VSE moderators receive hate mail regularly. And even death threats. So, any negative messages are taken very seriously. WD

 

 

Maybe this should say something about the mods over there. They're obviously not very good if they're getting hate mail and death threats on a regular basis. It's obvious some of them should be banned for their actions. They take their int0rw3b policing a little too seriously. Like they're important or something...

[WDW]

Gene, you are reading things into my statements that do not exist. Firstly, I never said that things do not happen. And, further, I did not imply that nothing has happened. Secondly, I never said one way or the other whether or not I recognized an issue that you mentioned in regards to another moderator. *I* am listening very clearly...and seriously.

 

With regard to addressing issues and concerns, I have founded and led multi-million dollar corporations and negotiated and mediated deals worth hundreds of millions of dollars. I know how to deal with issues and concerns where a lot is on the line. I can assure you that, if speaking in generalities in these high-stakes areas works well, then so will it in this area.

 

If you would like to address your VSE-related concerns in a non-personalized, generalized way, I am all ears.

 

WD

[WDW]

 

Maybe this should say something about the mods over there. They're obviously not very good if they're getting hate mail and death threats on a regular basis. It's obvious some of them should be banned for their actions. They take their int0rw3b policing a little too seriously. Like they're important or something...

 

 

Or that certain members are immature or unstable.

 

WD

[ElectricPuppy]

Moderation is a thankless job where it is impossible to please everyone. The larger the forum, the more thankless the job.

[droolmaster0]

 

Gene, you are reading things into my statements that do not exist. Firstly, I never said that things do not happen. And, further, I did not imply that nothing has happened. Secondly, I never said one way or the other whether or not I recognized an issue that you mentioned in regards to another moderator. *I* am listening very clearly...and seriously. With regard to addressing issues and concerns, I have founded and led multi-million dollar corporations and negotiated and mediated deals worth hundreds of millions of dollars. I know how to deal with issues and concerns where a lot is on the line. I can assure you that, if speaking in generalities in these high-stakes areas works well, then so will it in this area. If you would like to address your VSE-related concerns in a non-personalized, generalized way, I am all ears. WD

 

 

The "non-personalized, generalized way" has already been stated. VSE moderators ban people without warnings, and then refuse to rationally discuss the bannings afterwards, and explain why the action was taken. Quite obviously people who are downright insulting to others aren't banned (though I can't comment as to whether they are warned with pms. I never received a pm warning at VSE) The bannings are often for very mild 'infractions', if they can even be called that.

 

I'm not sure how your success in the business world should influence how I interpret your words, and what has actually happened on VSE. People have complained about VSE moderation now in multiple places, and the complaints all seem to be pretty similar.

[droolmaster0]

 

Moderation is a thankless job where it is impossible to please everyone. The larger the forum, the more thankless the job.

 

 

LOL - so, in a job where it is impossible to please everyone, everything should be considered acceptable?

[WDW]

Those complaints are duly noted. Thank you.

 

WD

 

P.S. My successfully solving problems and making decisions based upon generalities rather than specifics was the point. We can speak in generalities and make significant progress.

 

P.P.S. I too have seen the complaints in various places on the Internet, and I have noted that a lot of the same complainants can be found in those various places. Let's face it, the synth fora and lists are pretty incestuous.

[droolmaster0]

But, usually in a conversation about an issue, you use specifics to back up generalities, especially when the other party seems to be denying that there is a problem. You still seem to be implying that there is not really a problem ("a lot of the same complainants"). If things change over there, this is good - but all I've heard from you really is a defense of how the moderators act over there, both in general, and in specific. I posted a specific, flagrant example, and you basically said that he probably had a good reason, or some such.

[WDW]

I think that you are missing the point, Gene. I am open-minded. I'm not carrying any emotional baggage with me. I am not inferring things from other people's statements. I'm taking your general statements at face value.

 

As to how I perceive our interaction here... You were the one banned from VSE, and that angered and frustrated you. [i recall your communications in other fora at the time that it happened.] I would expect that you still hold some of that negativity. Assuming that this is true, then it would be reasonable to assume that this is why you continually read things that I am neither verbalizing nor implying into my statements.

 

I assure you that I am taking all of this seriously and looking at it without judgement. I hate to go back to the subject of my former career, but it might provide some insight into who I am and how I operate. I was paid to solve people's problems. I was not highly sought after because I was ruthless and relentless. I was sought because I was fair and honest and looked out for all parties' best interests. I try to avoid conflict whenever possible, and I try to turn a situation so that everyone wins.

 

Not to sound disloyal to KSS, I love VSE. When I was changing careers and going into music, VSE was one of the most helpful resources for me. And, over the years, it has continued to educate me and provide a place for me to share ideas and information with others who share a similar passion for synthesis. It is for that reason that I volunteered to moderate VSE--I wanted to give back to the community that helped me. It is a (usually) thankless job, but one that I undertake out of a sense of obligation. I take it seriously. And I hope that you take me seriously that I want to do what I can to make VSE as good as it can be.

 

WD

[Acid Hazard]

 

Or that certain mods are immature or unstable. WD

 

 

 

Fixed!

[WDW]

I have received nasty grams and been called names for things that I had not dealings with, merely because I was a moderator. That is the evidence of misguided anger and immaturity...on behalf of the individual.

 

I fear that this age of impersonal interactions is leading to a devolution in social skills. But that is the subject for another thread.

 

WD

[DocT]

As one who doesn't post much on VSE and usually stays away from intensive discussions - mainly because my english isn't good enough to argue - I've not directly been affected my moderator actions yet.

But even I have a feeling lately that the athmosphere over there is generally fierce, not much fun. Before posting I have to think twice if everything is correct or if I maybe infringe the difficult to understand subforum rules.

 

The countless moved and locked threads generate a big brother athmosphere. I think that less would be more for that forum in terms of mod activities. However, If reducing the traffic is the intention of the present mod activities, I feel it has been successful.

[ChasIII]

 

Before jumping to conclusions about what happened in the VSE thread, please allow me add some details, which, until now, have been missing from this thread. There were two subsequent remarks from Martin. These two remarks were deemed inappropriate, were deleted, and led to the subsequent banning. The banning was not the result of the one remark that remains in the VSE thread. WD

 

 

What were the two remarks from Martin?

[mytee2.0]

if you people are getting CONSTANT hate mail and death threats, what does that tell you?

 

Do you think it means you guys are doing a great job?

 

no, seriously...

 

 

What were the two remarks from Martin?

 

 

+1

 

what happend? What was so bad that warrented a banning and childish user renaming?

[Don Solaris]

I recently joined the VSE not only because analog gear is main subject there, but I was happy to see there is a place where strong moderation is taking place so it should be clean from trolls and the same repetitive topics. So far i found VSE to be fine. But.....

 

... i did noticed this guy, Tallow-Water or something like that is his username. And i must say that person is RUDE. Got nothing against him, but his behavior is simply not on the level of what a moderator should be. Specially if he is there to represent a forum's standard - which by his contribution now looks low as low it can be.

 

As of the person who changed someone's nick into "Choad". If i'd be administrator, not only i'd remove his mod status, but i'd remove his account for causing permanent damage to the institution of the VSE forum (remember, thousands of people are watching these forums, not just those registered! Plus don't forget there is a web archive that stores all this we talk right now). That's what i mean by permanent damage.

 

Don't be surprised to hear people saying from now on "Hey don't go VSE, they'll name you as Choad or {censored} there". Naming someone in such a rude way might be popular in Afganistan or Albania, but here in the west i think we got over that some 200 years ago. If there are still primitives among us, they should be far from moderator status.

[Carey M]

Well, for what it's worth... I have never had any problems with VSE moderation. None of my threads have been locked/moved and I have never gotten warned/banned. Granted, I do not post a lot (just under 666 posts), but still. I have noticed on a couple of occasions some odd thread locks/moves, but mostly this seems to happen for a good reason. VSE gets a lot of traffic so I do appreciate the idea of separate forums for Samplers/Sound Production/etc. And when there is a lot of traffic, moderational mistakes (odd locks/moves) can happen.

 

Concerning specific bans of specific people by some specific moderators... I do not know enough about these cases (drool vs. tallow, others) to comment on them... But I have to say that I am baffled about Pix/Rui getting banned.

 

- CM