Keyboard amp question

[PaleoPerry]

I'm looking at getting a pair of keyboard amps to replace or supplement my current one (Barbetta 32 pro combo). There are amps on the market, like the Traynor K4, that emulate stereo from a single amp. Would using a pair of these amps distort the stereo image? I know that I could run one channel to each amp to prevent a 'double stereo' effect, but would the dispersion pattern of the amp destroy the image? Thanks for any insights here...

[ChristianRock]

Why would you want two amps if one amp will give you a stereo sound?

Plus, a quick google search told me the K4 operates in either mono or stereo, so just use both of them in mono and you'll be fine.

[PaleoPerry]

Why would you want two amps if one amp will give you a stereo sound? Plus, a quick google search told me the K4 operates in either mono or stereo, so just use both of them in mono and you'll be fine.

 

I might not

 

I have read that the stereo image from the K4 is not so good with increasing distances, and I wasn't sure if using a mono signal in each was equivalent to doing the same from an ordinary, built for mono, monitor.

[xmlguy]

Unless you have two ears located on your forehead, having separation between the speakers is needed to hear the stereo effect. How far they need to be apart depends the distance and orientation between the speakers and the audience. You can call it stereo if you'd like, but putting two speakers right next to each other isn't stereo unless they're headphones and someone's thick head provides the channel separation. Strap that K4 to your head and you've got stereo highs with mono lows. Put it on the floor and you've got mono, regardless of all their marketing BS. Pump through a L-C-R stereo ping-pong arpeggio to see what I mean. What a huge waste to pay extra for a stereo amp only to have them screw it up by putting the speakers right next to each other. The only thing that would make the K4 a true stereo amp would be a chainsaw and one more woofer. Other than that, the K4 seems like a nice amp. :poke:

[sl-klima]

Hi Folks,

i've got an Roland SA-300 stage-amplifier for that purpose.

It's like the K4 a stereo-top with mono-subwoofer. It's fine for

amplifying my nord-electro and pc1x and it's the best amp-dicision I've

made so far (had an mono-amp previously). Such a big difference.

But it's true, you don't have a stereo-seperation like with mini-pas.

It's up to what you need more: The absolute best sound from your keys

with two aktive-speakers (pa) or a good sounding solution that's also very portable because of lightweight.

Greets

Stephan

[ChromaLord]

Get two Roland KC550's. It will run true stereo, sounds great, real loud, lines out for house, wheels pop off easily, built like a tank. I love mine.

[Bones]

Get two Roland KC550's. It will run true stereo, sounds great, real loud, lines out for house, wheels pop off easily, built like a tank. I love mine.

 

I second that. Great gigging amp.

[PaleoPerry]

I second that. Great gigging amp.

 

Cool..I'll take a look at them. It seems I had heard bad things about Roland build quality, but maybe I was misinformed (this was from a couple of friends who had used their smaller amps).

[Palaver]

 

Unless you have two ears located on your forehead, having separation between the speakers is needed to hear the stereo effect. How far they need to be apart depends the distance and orientation between the speakers and the audience. You can call it stereo if you'd like, but putting two speakers right next to each other isn't stereo unless they're headphones and someone's thick head provides the channel separation. Strap that K4 to your head and you've got stereo highs with mono lows. Put it on the floor and you've got mono, regardless of all their marketing BS. Pump through a L-C-R stereo ping-pong arpeggio to see what I mean. What a huge waste to pay extra for a stereo amp only to have them screw it up by putting the speakers right next to each other. The only thing that would make the K4 a true stereo amp would be a chainsaw and one more woofer. Other than that, the K4 seems like a nice amp. :poke:

 

 

Motion-Sound does a great job of Stereo monitoring, and it has the best design out of any stereo amp (IMHO). However, with increasing distance (like you said), any stereo will eventually lose it's image.

[wineandkeyz]

 

Cool..I'll take a look at them. It seems I had heard bad things about Roland build quality, but maybe I was misinformed (this was from a couple of friends who had used their smaller amps).

 

 

I disagree. I used to play through two Roland KC-500s -- the build quality was fine, but I didn't care much for the tone. Two of them will give you stereo, but they're overly heavy on the bottom end, "okay" on the highs, at the expense of the mids. As far as the build quality, I had no complaints. The line outs, however, are prone to ground loops. I always ended up having to use a separate direct box between the KC-500s and the PA.

 

I now play a Traynor K4. As you mentioned, you don't get the stereo separation from one cabinet that you cab from two separate ones. But I like the K4 because it's a great compact, all-in-one package. It features a ground lift on the direct outs, so I don't need a DI anymore. And the tube preamp on Channel 1 sounds great with Hammond clones.

 

That said, if I had the stage space for two cabinets, I'd probably go with a pair of powered speakers, like the JBL EON G2s, Mackie 450s, or the like.

[ChromaLord]

Bottom heavy? Try using the onboard EQ.(or the instrument's master EQ-thats what they are there for) Never had trouble with line outs to house.

Sure, a GOOD PA cabinet would sound better, but then toting all of the extra stuff you need with it makes it a pain.

[GigMan]

I'm looking at getting a pair of keyboard amps to replace or supplement my current one (Barbetta 32 pro combo). There are amps on the market, like the Traynor K4, that emulate stereo from a single amp. Would using a pair of these amps distort the stereo image? I know that I could run one channel to each amp to prevent a 'double stereo' effect, but would the dispersion pattern of the amp destroy the image? Thanks for any insights here...

 

I used to use the JBL EON15 G2's - plenty of power, have built-in mixer, etc... I have a pair but would only use on as a mono stage monitor since I rarely had room for both. Then I bought a Motion Sound KP200s and relegated the EONs for PA duty on the occasional gigs where I have to supply PA.

 

The KP200s sounds great but is a little underpowered for louder situations - rock band in a bar setting, for example.

 

Why not just add an identical Barbetta to the one you have - voila! Instant stereo rig.

[wineandkeyz]

 

Bottom heavy? Try using the onboard EQ.(or the instrument's master EQ-thats what they are there for) Never had trouble with line outs to house. Sure, a GOOD PA cabinet would sound better, but then toting all of the extra stuff you need with it makes it a pain.

 

 

Perhaps the KCs sound good to you. They didn't to me. And they don't have a ground lift on the direct outs, so if you've never had trouble with noise, you've just been damned lucky.

 

Oh, and I'm fully aware of how to use an EQ, thank you very much.

[mate_stubb]

 

Perhaps the KCs sound good to you. They didn't to me. And they don't have a ground lift on the direct outs, so if you've never had trouble with noise, you've just been damned lucky.

 

 

+100

 

Acoustic piano sounds atrocious through 99% of all the so called "keyboard amps" on the market today. If you are just playing synth stuff or don't require accurate reproduction, by all means use the KCs and the Peaveys.

[Darkstorm]

Getting two amps to run stereo thru is of course better then single stereo amp unless the latter comes with a seperate cab for the other ch. With two seperate combo amps you can seperate them for streo spread and the all important sound dispersion to audiance. For hifo would suggest JBL Eon powered Pa speakers or bass combo amps by Eden Nemsis or Genze Benz since their speakers including the hifi tweeters work excellent for bass, guitars, synths, drum machines, etc etc. Run thru the house Pa for your main sound as best way to go imo.

[Bones]

Perhaps the KCs sound good to you. They didn't to me. And they don't have a ground lift on the direct outs, so if you've never had trouble with noise, you've just been damned lucky. Oh, and I'm fully aware of how to use an EQ, thank you very much.

It's cool. If everyone here agreed on everything, we'd have little to talk about. My KC-550 can be a low end beast sometimes. My KC-350, not so much. I usually run the EQ flat and adjust drawbars to taste. Just for clarification -the 550 does have ground lift on the direct outs. They're great gigging amps that cut cleanly through mix and can stand up to most abuse - IMO.

[rocket888]

After playing for years with a Rolalnd KC500, and now with a Motion Sound stereo amp, (and occasionally with other amp configurations at jams, and sitting in w/ other bands,) I recently played with a pair of Mackie 450's run through a small mixer.

 

Bottom line: No comparison...all the power you need with the 2 Mackies, and all the EQ and lines in and out you could ever need with a good mixer. Stereo too.

 

Everything else is a compromise.

[dan88z]

Why not get another Barbetta like the one you have now?

[c4racer]

 

After playing for years with a Rolalnd KC500, and now with a Motion Sound stereo amp, (and occasionally with other amp configurations at jams, and sitting in w/ other bands,) I recently played with a pair of Mackie 450's run through a small mixer. Bottom line: No comparison...all the power you need with the 2 Mackies, and all the EQ and lines in and out you could ever need with a good mixer. Stereo too. Everything else is a compromise.

 

 

 

Well - I would hope it sounds better - you are talking about roughly 3X the price of a KC!! Damn well better sound a lot better for that kinda scratch.

For me that is overkill. The audience hears it through the mains anyway in my set-up, so the amp is just a stage monitor for me. It doesn't have to sound awesome - in fact, if it did I doubt I would really be able to hear it all that clearly over the wall of sound that my band produces on stage (loud drummer, 2 guitars, one w/ a full Marshall stack, bass). Plus that is more stuff to carry and set-up. For me there is no benefit to the added cost, set-up and gear to carry. Everyone has a different situation and a lot of that depends what type of music you are playing. We are playing loud rock and roll, so it doesn't matter much to me.

[rocket888]

The OP wanted to replace (read "upgrade") his current setup, and he did not mention that price was an issue.

[PaleoPerry]

Thanks for the replies. My Barbetta is actually damaged. I decided to see if I could have it repaired, and I'm still waiting for word back from my local music store on that. If I can get it fixed, I may well follow the advice of some here and get a twin for it (I do like how it sounds). I am also thinking about getting some studio monitors and using the Barbetta just as a mono stage amp (assuming, again, that I can have it repaired). I was originally going with the idea of using the same pair of amps as studio and stage monitors, but I am backing away from that idea now. I'm thinking now that stage and studio monitors are probably too much 'different beasts' for that to be a good solution.

[Darkstorm]

Paleo...> A big diff between stage and studio monitors is air movement and speaker efficiency. The lower amount of both for studio monitors is a plus when it comes to studios. Cause they are much smaller then clubs where greater speaker efficiency and air movment is a must. The lower efficiency and air movement also allows for amps to be better driven in home studios. You may or may not have experienced the weak sound of trying to use stage amps in home studio where you can only barely turn the amps on before sound is too loud and carries too far even with small 10" combo pair. Also two ten inch drivers is too big for any but very large living rooms air movement wise which results in standing waves. Yes I know some very nice tower speakers use a couple 6" woofers. But these have far less air movement due to design then comprable stage monitor speakers would. The reason most stage monitors arent hifi sound wise is they have to made for volume and sound projection as a main concern design wise. Rather then for hifi sound. Barbetta's good and can certainly be called hifi. But their also made doing their best at loud volume comparatively. Louder volume then one should want as the norm for inside most houses.

 

As another relavent example. Take JBL. Their top of line home speakers dont have the efficiency of their pro speakers. Thats on purpose. Due to diff application needs. Thus their best home speakers work well in that enviroment at low to high volume, and their pro speakers work well for comparitively low to high volume in their intended envoroment (club size places).

 

If barbetta made studio monitor speaker systems and you loved their stage speaker/amp systems, thatd be good choice to concider for home studio. (see jbl example above for reason).

[PaleoPerry]

 

Paleo...> A big diff between stage and studio monitors is air movement and speaker efficiency. The lower amount of both for studio monitors is a plus when it comes to studios. Cause they are much smaller then clubs where greater speaker efficiency and air movment is a must. The lower efficiency and air movement also allows for amps to be better driven in home studios. You may or may not have experienced the weak sound of trying to use stage amps in home studio where you can only barely turn the amps on before sound is too loud and carries too far even with small 10" combo pair. Also two ten inch drivers is too big for any but very large living rooms air movement wise which results in standing waves. Yes I know some very nice tower speakers use a couple 6" woofers. But these have far less air movement due to design then comprable stage monitor speakers would. The reason most stage monitors arent hifi sound wise is they have to made for volume and sound projection as a main concern design wise. Rather then for hifi sound. Barbetta's good and can certainly be called hifi. But their also made doing their best at loud volume comparatively. Louder volume then one should want as the norm for inside most houses. As another relavent example. Take JBL. Their top of line home speakers dont have the efficiency of their pro speakers. Thats on purpose. Due to diff application needs. Thus their best home speakers work well in that enviroment at low to high volume, and their pro speakers work well for comparitively low to high volume in their intended envoroment (club size places). If barbetta made studio monitor speaker systems and you loved their stage speaker/amp systems, thatd be good choice to concider for home studio. (see jbl example above for reason).

 

 

Thanks very much for this post! While I was aware of the general philosophical differences between studio monitors and stage amps, I did not know all of this. It's useful information. I think I am going to get a pair if studio monitors after all...I listened to a pair of Mackie MR8s and thought they sounded pretty good. I am a ways from a decision on this though.

[Support Guy]

http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/ContentDetail/ModelSeriesDetail/0,,CNTID%25253D5014978%252526CTID%25253D560071,00.html

[rvandenbroeck]

 

Just for clarification -the 550 does have ground lift on the direct outs.

 

 

um... i think you guys are talking about two different models. The KC-500 does not have ground lift but the KC-550 does.

 

FWIW, I've always liked the tone of my KC-500 though it definitely is a little bottom-heavy. My Roland acoustic piano sounds always sound great through it (I usually use an old RD-100 but sometimes a Fantom XR module). My Nord electro acoustic piano... not so much... then again, I don't think the Nord electro acoustic piano patches would sound good through just about anything. Point is, a good piano patch sounds pretty decent through the thing.

 

It's build solid but I did have a problem with a power amp connection a couple times - something got jarred loose and no sound would coming out of the amp (I did connect it to the PA via the direct out so it worked fine until I could get it fixed). The dude who worked on it told me to just avoid being too rough when moving it and it should be fine... I gigged with the thing for like three years prior to those problems and about a year since....