Members Diametro Posted November 15, 2008 Members Share Posted November 15, 2008 There will be many features, etc. that will not necessarily be anticipated when purchasing a piece of musical equipment as complex as a workstation but will be missed when starting to use it ... (Despite some of the Fusion's gee-whiz features like hard drive and eight mono inputs, you'll find once you start examining the workstation features of the board Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Diametro Posted November 15, 2008 Members Share Posted November 15, 2008 Oh ... and I forgot something else about the Fusion ... It's FUGLY ... ... with a useless curved case design that precludes putting any kind of gear on it to cover it up ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bob the dentist Posted November 15, 2008 Author Members Share Posted November 15, 2008 i'm really curious about the context of this "battle cry of the clinically retarded." it's just a quote that i thought was funny and looking at the exported backing track of the first song for this project that i completed, even with drums AND synth/piano its only a 62mb AIFF file, which is one of the two file types the Fusion uses, so I would think I'm ok with the Fusion :poke: EDIT: Found a gigantic picture of the Fusion 6HD, are the numbers 1-8 under the synth patches what trigger the samples? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Yoozer Posted November 15, 2008 Members Share Posted November 15, 2008 You have banks and in those banks you have patches. The 1-8 buttons are used for that. If you want to trigger samples, you load the separate files, assign each file to a keyrange (a keyrange can also span C3-C3 - so basically it's just one key), and when you press the key, it triggers the sample. You might have separate modes for "hit once and forget" and "keep holding this key down". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bob the dentist Posted November 15, 2008 Author Members Share Posted November 15, 2008 sounds cool to me, it has a good number of keys so i'm sure it'd be easy to put the highest or lowest few keys as setting off samples...i think i'll add that to my list of things to check out when i save up a bit more money and head to Sam Ash... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grumphh Posted November 15, 2008 Members Share Posted November 15, 2008 Just a question?If the samples you want to use are drum parts, why not get a drummachine? Then you could get a cheap used rompler/synth for the other parts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Yoozer Posted November 15, 2008 Members Share Posted November 15, 2008 Just a question?If the samples you want to use are drum parts, why not get a drummachine? You try doing the amen break convincingly on a drum machine with its built-in samples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grumphh Posted November 16, 2008 Members Share Posted November 16, 2008 You try doing the amen break convincingly on a drum machine with its built-in samples. I think you have spent too much time on ishkurs page... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bob the dentist Posted November 16, 2008 Author Members Share Posted November 16, 2008 You try doing the amen break convincingly on a drum machine with its built-in samples. this or at least, I believe so. it's not a drum machine that i'm wanting to a do a one man show with or something, it's drum tracks that were written to songs with the input of a real drummer. so if what you meant was "it doesn't sound good/like real drums/drummer" then yes :poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members xmlguy Posted November 16, 2008 Members Share Posted November 16, 2008 For playing and controlling backing tracks, I think the SP-404 blows away any keyboard workstation, including all mentioned in this thread. This issue is workflow. The 404 plays and records directly to CompactFlash, therefore there never is a loading/saving process separate from the sampling/playing. It also handles looping better than workstations, which usually require digging into the menus to change a track from one-shot to loop. Then the 404 has pads to trigger the tracks, the Fusion doesn't. The FantomX has pads, but I have an X6 and I still much prefer the 404 because choosing tracks for the pads is only one button press away, while the Fantom requires many menu choices to do the same thing. The 404 also give better feedback for how the pads are setup for looping/one-shots. Then there's the value equation - I got my 404 for $200 and I've seen them for $150. The battery operation is a distinct advantage for gigs - no dongle AC adapter and cord - just hook the audio output and you are ready to go instantly. One button press shows battery status. Where the 404 isn't so great is editing samples for looping without clicks - because it doesn't let you visually edit the cut points - but that can be done in advance on a computer. The SP-606 is better in this regard because it has an LCD to show the sample, but it's much larger, doesn't use batteries, and is limited to 512MB CF cards. The SP-555 has the worst features of the 404 and 606, with a brain dead built-in looper that's unusable in my opinion for live use. For more advanced capability, the MPC500 or MPC1000 are the next step up in function and price. Go with the MPCs when you want midi-looping or midi backing tracks, or multitrack playback and editing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members raffor Posted November 16, 2008 Members Share Posted November 16, 2008 The MPC-5000 has a little synth section in addition to all the MPC features. Maybe you should take a look at this one and see if the synth section is deep enough for you. But here you have everything together in one box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Yoozer Posted November 16, 2008 Members Share Posted November 16, 2008 But no built in samples and not under a grand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soundwave106 Posted November 16, 2008 Members Share Posted November 16, 2008 I've got to say, two devices would be best. The SP-404 really is an awesome device for playing back long backing tracks and triggering samples and/or drums -- very simple workflow. No built in samples (okay there's a test bank that's good for laughs), but is that a problem in these Internet times? Samples can easily be assigned to pads and triggered on the fly (or via MIDI). Buy used and you will have say $700 to spend on a second PCM type synth. In the used market I think you'll have quite a few options there, even if you get two synths, one for PCM and one for modeling. (Roland XP 50 used + Microkorg used should run under $700). I don't know of an option that can do everything for your price range, but you can certainly build something that does what you want for under $1000, I think... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Diametro Posted November 16, 2008 Members Share Posted November 16, 2008 Don't underestimate how difficult it is to find a quality grand piano patch in a synth ... For the most part, they just don't exist ... Fantom X = best grand piano, great keybed, quality construction and design, sample triggering and playback options that go way beyond Fusion or SP-404 (time stretching, multisampling, 16 trigger pads with velocity and aftertouch) ... Mature, stable OS, proper audio tracks, sequencer with pattern sequencing (Fusion lacks it, among other things like re-sampling) ... plenty of great sound expansion options ... At the moment Fan-X may seem like more than you need, but it will never be less ... I've seen X6s for under $1k on craigslists (there's plenty out there ... ) ... And if you don't like it, I have no doubt you can re-sell it for the same price ... But at least you'll have the knowledge that you went for an all-in-one solution and what that entails ... When I perform out I take one board: Fan-X. Period. I used to take a gaggle of synths and equipment ... but in the end I realized Fan-X can do everything everything else does ... But the point is ... you'll be satisfying all your needs in one swoop ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soundwave106 Posted November 16, 2008 Members Share Posted November 16, 2008 The Fantom X6 looks good too (if bought used) -- I guess my only caveat would be whether the X6 can stream multi-minute samples from the card slot. If not, you will probably have to factor in some DIMMs to expand the memory size to the point where you can load the huge samples the OP wants. I don't think the Fantom X6 has an analog modeling component, either, although for many people PCM analog sounds are just fine. Still, that does seem quite close in many ways to what the person wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Diametro Posted November 16, 2008 Members Share Posted November 16, 2008 The audio resides in (expanded) memory... But then EVERYTHING involving audio is instantaneous ... no matter how many times you switch song lists or setups ... all your audio is always ready immediately ... On the Fusion, for example, you'd always be loading stuff up as your set list progressed ... increasing the chances you could crash ... Fan-X has crashed ZERO times on me in live performance ... It is a very reliable instrument ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Khazul Posted November 17, 2008 Members Share Posted November 17, 2008 My 2p on this... I agree with Diametro - the Fusion on paper looks perfect for you needs, however Ive found it be a can of worms when your try to fully use all of it. On its plus side - it is a proper synth as well as a rompler with a pretty decent sounding VA and FM synths inside it. The piano on it is something you will either like or hate - I go thorugh phrase of liking it rawness, then hating its sampling artifacts. On the Fantom-X - TBH all the pianos on it sound plastics - thats also my opinion of the Motif ES as well (and I wont mention Korg as I dont like their s either). However where the fantom-x makes up for this is with good sounding fx, so the paino reverb (piano soundboard simulation) brings alot of life to an otherwise very processed sound. If pianos really matter to you - I think the new Kurzweil is probably the best there is in a general board - I have absolutely no idea of its sampling capabilities though and its expensive. All apart from the fusion are beyond your budget new - Fantom-Xs are coming up second hand alot now and of the main three workstations of that era (ie triton series/fantom/motif-es) then I think the fantom-X has by far the best UI. If you get a Fantom-X - make sure it has the V2 OS installed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChristianRock Posted November 17, 2008 Members Share Posted November 17, 2008 Mileage varies for every person... the effects on the Fantom XR are the thing I hate most about it - especially the reverb. I think it sounds plastic and very artificial. For some reason it sucks compared to the Alesis Fusion and even to my Roland JV2080's reverb.Maybe the Fantom X keyboards have a different effects engine compared to the Fantom XR, or maybe you'll like the sound of these reverbs that personally hate. Apparently lost of people like them and I might just be the exception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Diametro Posted November 17, 2008 Members Share Posted November 17, 2008 Oooh ... the HATE finally comes out ... I must be ear blind ... Fan-X reverb sounds fine to me ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members evildragon Posted November 17, 2008 Members Share Posted November 17, 2008 Ear blind XD XD XD Deaf? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChristianRock Posted November 17, 2008 Members Share Posted November 17, 2008 Is that to me, evildragon?I just don't like the reverb on the Fantom XR. It's one of the reasons I'm selling it, I don't like its effects. Am I not allowed to do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members evildragon Posted November 17, 2008 Members Share Posted November 17, 2008 NO no no, I just commented on the phrase, ear blind XD Too funny XD No offense in any way, CR! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Diametro Posted November 17, 2008 Members Share Posted November 17, 2008 the effects on the Fantom XR are the thing I hate most about it - especially the reverb. I think it sounds plastic and very artificial. For some reason it sucks compared to the Alesis Fusion and even to my Roland JV2080's reverb. No ... you must sell in silence ... In fact, now to be completely honest, you must state at the top of your ad HOW MUCH YOU HATE THE REVERB ON XR ... ... anything less would be a lie of omission ... eternal dalmations and everything else that goes with it ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChristianRock Posted November 17, 2008 Members Share Posted November 17, 2008 Ah. OK evildragon ear blind is hillarious now that I think of it I guess I hurt a Roland Fanboy. Boo hoo. I'll still keep my JV2080 (for now), A-80, A-90 and I plan on getting some more Roland stuff in the future. But I'm not a fanboy because if I think something sucks, I'll say it. And at least I'm walking the walk and selling the Fantom XR, supposedly it'll be sold tomorrow. Diametro hates on the Fusion day in and day out, yet he'll never sell his, apparently... And yes I've got an offer from a guy here at HC for the Fantom XR. Honesty is a good thing, D! People know opinions are subjective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Diametro Posted November 17, 2008 Members Share Posted November 17, 2008 NO no no, I just commented on the phrase, ear blind XDToo funny XDNo offense in any way, CR! One of my favorite phrases is "it stinks in the ear." Writers and orators are often warned about "mixing metaphors" but it can sometimes yield interesting results ... Sort of like a psycho-linguistic cross modulation ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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