Members crohny Posted July 30, 2011 Members Share Posted July 30, 2011 Some of the useless in society would indeed turn to a life of crime rather than actually making money the ole fashion way. I do not believe that would be the case for a majority of people though. I believe that people would be forced to actually go find a damn job to support their families and pay their bills. I really think your reaching on this one man. {censored} I just realized.. your in the UK! Why the {censored} do you care about what happens in the US? :soapbox: there is welfare in other countries and its kind of a question that should be asked everywhere. it just seems he looks at the conversation sees that people are saying of yeah test them {censored}ers and then leaves at that. too hard to fathom that it wouldnt be that cut and dry and you should offer some kind of support in order to help people other than just giving them money. if you want to be all humanitarian and {censored}ing pussyish youd think all these people loving good goodies would want to do more than just give some junkies money to blow on dumb habbits. apparently they cant think outside of the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Naterel Posted July 30, 2011 Members Share Posted July 30, 2011 ITS YOUR MONEY AND I NEED IT NOW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members crohny Posted July 30, 2011 Members Share Posted July 30, 2011 Trust me, Ive asked my daughters mother several times to just go ahead and slit her wrists and be done with it. Verses letting my daughter see her slowly killing herself and being a life long disappointment to her. yeah but her mothers death would probably trouble just as much if not more. never been in a situation like that nor would i ever want to or even imagine it. thats rough as {censored}. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SnowViking Posted July 30, 2011 Members Share Posted July 30, 2011 Some of the useless in society would indeed turn to a life of crime rather than actually making money the ole fashion way. I do not believe that would be the case for a majority of people though. I believe that people would be forced to actually go find a damn job to support their families and pay their bills. I really think your reaching on this one man. {censored} I just realized.. your in the UK! Why the {censored} do you care about what happens in the US? :soapbox: Why? Because the idiotic ideas you call social experiments come over here and try peddling their absurd solutions in the UK (as do many American ideas good and bad). The latest one was the proposal to offer money as an incentive to sterilise junkie mothers, to prevent them from having offspring who develop a habit. Needless to say this was met with predictable outrage from the liberals and foot-tapping from the Daily Mail readers. I'm sure someone has already chipped in with how much and how many junkies feed their habit - over and above the meagre earnings from welfare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoboPimp Posted July 30, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 30, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LSDis4me Posted July 30, 2011 Members Share Posted July 30, 2011 The biggest problem with our welfare system is their have been too many people find ways to manipulate the system to their advantage. These people that do not even attempt to get a job because they can just collect unemployment and food stamps are the ones that really abuse the system. Context, people, context. Where is the real money going in welfare? Corporate welfare. It's criminally under-reported in the corporate media, surprise surprise. But corporate bailouts, tax breaks, etc. is where the real money is at. But we're to naive to realize it, and instead think that the real story is in the relatively small amount of money that is being spent on mythical Cadillac welfare recipients. Close all the corporate tax loopholes, end all the corporate welfare, cut the military budget in half, and tax stock sales at a half penny a share, and this country would be in great economic shape and could actually have a decent social welfare system that is compassionate and fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members crohny Posted July 30, 2011 Members Share Posted July 30, 2011 Context, people, context. Where is the real money going in welfare? Corporate welfare. It's criminally under-reported in the corporate media, surprise surprise. But corporate bailouts, tax breaks, etc. is where the real money is at. But we're to naive to realize it, and instead think that the real story is in the relatively small amount of money that is being spent on mythical Cadillac welfare recipients. Close all the corporate tax loopholes, end all the corporate welfare, cut the military budget in half, and tax stock sales at a half penny a share, and this country would be in great economic shape and could actually have a decent social welfare system that is compassionate and fair. no one saying thats not the issue. but thats not what this threads about you fool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby D Posted July 30, 2011 Members Share Posted July 30, 2011 :wave::wave::wave::wave: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tashiattack Posted July 30, 2011 Members Share Posted July 30, 2011 A little late to the discussion but from this comment - so are you. People who actually PAY taxes are the ones who should be deemed ALLOWED to collect. The biggest problem with our welfare system is their have been too many people find ways to manipulate the system to their advantage. These people that do not even attempt to get a job because they can just collect unemployment and food stamps are the ones that really abuse the system. My daughter's mother is a fine example of that. She collected food stamps for a couple years and did nothing but sell the food stamps to people for cash so she could just go support her drug habit. The only good thing that became of that dumb bitch is my daughter - which I now have custody of. Okay went on a small rant but it is part of the point. Again, I hate to repeat the same points I had made a few pages earlier, but using 1 or 2 examples does not mean there is a systemic problem of "abusing the system." There is no data or fact to back up your claim. It's quite the opposite, with a high number of people who are turned away. There are several factors when we even ask the question: who is abusing the system, what constitutes as abuse, who is deserving, and so on. We socially construct these categories but if we accept the premise that the unemployed who cant find work, or those with sickness or don't have the physically/mental ability for whatever reason should receive it, then it is these people, i.e. the majority who in fact use it, including those who use drugs. You cannot make an argument that all drug users should be denied welfare, this is an irrational logic that does not take into account various factors. Removing those who you think "don't deserve it" is not a solution and its not going to save you on your taxes. It will get distributed into other aspects to address the consequences of cuts, and this is indeed a fact. In this day and age if you do not see a correlation with drug abuse, poverty, and crime, then you must be living under a rock. The overwhelming majority of those in prison are not mass murders or rapists, they are drug users, those who violated property laws (by stealing or trespassing), and those who violated their probation. I've been straight edge for the last 10 years (don't drink or smoke), and those people opposed to drug screenings are hardly the ones who couldn't pass it. My question is: how far will you go? Why stop there? Why not round up individuals you believe don't contribute to society and kill them once and for all? There's a totalitarian underpinning behind these arguments that people seem to think is okay. Lets face it, when we say contribute to society, by that we really mean the economy. I believe artists contribute to society, many of whom do not contribute to the economy in any way shape or form, but to some their value is worthless because their art is not considered work. It's disgusting that we place value this way rather than seeing them as a human being. I guess the post-WWII concept of human rights and protection of basic livelihood has no meaning anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby D Posted July 30, 2011 Members Share Posted July 30, 2011 i really like Phil's idea that anyone who makes under $50k should not have to pay taxes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members crohny Posted July 30, 2011 Members Share Posted July 30, 2011 Again, I hate to repeat the same points I had made a few pages earlier, but using 1 or 2 examples does not mean there is a systemic problem of "abusing the system." There is no data or fact to back up your claim. It's quite the opposite, with a high number of people who are turned away. There are several factors when we even ask the question: who is abusing the system, what constitutes as abuse, who is deserving, and so on. We socially construct these categories but if we accept the premise that the unemployed who cant find work, or those with sickness or don't have the physically/mental ability for whatever reason should receive it, then it is these people, i.e. the majority who in fact use it, including those who use drugs. You cannot make an argument that all drug users should be denied welfare, this is an irrational logic that does not take into account various factors. Removing those who you think "don't deserve it" is not a solution and its not going to save you on your taxes. It will get distributed into other aspects to address the consequences of cuts, and this is indeed a fact. I've been straight edge for the last 10 years (don't drink or smoke), and those people opposed to drug screenings are hardly the ones who couldn't pass it. My question is: how far will you go? Why stop there? Why not round up individuals you believe don't contribute to society and kill them once and for all? There's a totalitarian underpinning behind these arguments that people seem to think is okay.Lets face it, when we say contribute to society, by that we really mean the economy. I believe artists contribute to society, many of whom do not contribute to the economy in any way shape or form, but to some ultra neo-liberal capitalist, their value is worthless. It's disgusting that we place value this way rather than seeing them as a human being. I guess the post-WWII concept of human rights and protection of basic livelihood has no meaning anymore. im saying lets help people and you resort to killing them. youre a horrible person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members crohny Posted July 30, 2011 Members Share Posted July 30, 2011 i really like Phil's idea that anyone who makes under $50k should not have to pay taxes id be ok with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LSDis4me Posted July 30, 2011 Members Share Posted July 30, 2011 no one saying thats not the issue. but thats not what this threads about you fool! The problem is things being looked out without a broader context. Focusing on poor people on welfare is myopic, when the real welfare problem is on corporate welfare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members crohny Posted July 30, 2011 Members Share Posted July 30, 2011 The problem is things being looked out without a broader context. Focusing on poor people on welfare is myopic, when the real welfare problem is on corporate welfare. yeah but the problem with that is money is power. do you have money to the point you have power? doubtful. i dont have it. so the myopic {censored} is all we got feller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrweems Posted July 30, 2011 Members Share Posted July 30, 2011 i'm not going to read this whole thread. But i'm for it. As low as it goes, smoking pot is an illegal luxury in my opinion. In my opinion we, the whole world, should have a manditory snip snip for people that don't contribute, ship em to an island, and let them die off. Oh and make them buildings in which they make {censored}, and in return we give them sustenance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby D Posted July 30, 2011 Members Share Posted July 30, 2011 yeah but the problem with that is money is power. do you have money to the point you have power? doubtful. i dont have it. so the myopic {censored} is all we got feller. Scarface'd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members crohny Posted July 30, 2011 Members Share Posted July 30, 2011 Scarface'd movie is soooooooo boring. the chainsaw {censored} is cool though but boooooooring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RUExp? Posted July 30, 2011 Members Share Posted July 30, 2011 movie is soooooooo boring. the chainsaw {censored} is cool though but boooooooring You kids with your short attention spans now-a-days. Stay off my lawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fetch Posted July 30, 2011 Members Share Posted July 30, 2011 Nope. It's a shortcut to thinking up a proper solution. While they're at it why don't they drug test anyone who gets behind the wheel of a car? The ratio would be about the same when you get to the root of it. It's bull{censored} thinking by bull{censored} artists fed to a bull{censored} loving generation; whatcha expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BmoreTele Posted July 30, 2011 Members Share Posted July 30, 2011 Who should pay for the drug testing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gorebuc Posted July 30, 2011 Members Share Posted July 30, 2011 This ties in with the Heritage Foundation report that tried to downplay the reality of American poverty by focusing on consumer goods found in houses of poverty. Such luxury items as refrigerators, microwave ovens, ceiling fans, and, gasp, X-Boxes were found in these homes. In fact, I read one study that suggested that this family of four, making less than 22K/year and receiving government aid has more disposable income than a family of four making 60K. Ok, but since when is overall financial stability based on disposable income? The family of 4 making 60K likely also has employer-provided health insurance, equity on a house, is saving, and is contributing to a retirement plan. Sure the family in poverty could put some money aside to start saving, but, if they reach a certain amount in savings, they will lose government help...at which point they will quickly consume their savings to make up for the unlivable wage they're being given. I mean, I guess they could work another job, spend more time away from their families, let their kids get socialized by pop/gang/drug culture, and work themselves into an early grave at a breakneck pace all to make ends meet...and still never reach the financial stability that the family make 60K has. Then, what do we do with the kids who are now hooked on drugs and legitimately unable to find a job (as many people, from school dropouts to PhDs are)? We drug test them and revoke their government support, leaving them to a life on the streets, living from pill to pill, line to line, or needle to needle? I don't know...seems quite vengeful and definitely assumes the metanarrative of the American Dream..."if only those lazy bastards would apply themselves, they could be working, productive members of society--instead, they're wasting my tax dollars living off the system." What is there out there for them? McDonalds, Wal-Mart, custodial staff at the mall? Call me idealistic, but until the CEOs of corporations submit to random drug tests with the findings made public knowledge, those on welfare shouldn't be subjected to it. Sure the system needs reform, but this idea doesn't deliver the needed changes. If we're gonna drug test 'em, we also need to pay for rehab and continued outpatient support and therapy afterwards. To me, that's the ultimate problem with our welfare system: out of some white guilt, we're willing to spend enough to help people "get by" (all the while begrudging their existence) but unwilling to invest in creating an infrastructure that would facilitate decent quality of life for all. Until we divert funds from the Pentagon teet by which military contractors are sucking us dry, we won't be able to afford such an infrastructure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SnowViking Posted July 30, 2011 Members Share Posted July 30, 2011 Finally someone on this thread that speaks with some real sensibility ^^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members schiz Posted July 30, 2011 Members Share Posted July 30, 2011 Why? Because the idiotic ideas you call social experiments come over here and try peddling their absurd solutions in the UK (as do many American ideas good and bad). The latest one was the proposal to offer money as an incentive to sterilise junkie mothers, to prevent them from having offspring who develop a habit. Needless to say this was met with predictable outrage from the liberals and foot-tapping from the Daily Mail readers. I'm sure someone has already chipped in with how much and how many junkies feed their habit - over and above the meagre earnings from welfare. Social experiments? LMMFAO!!!!!!!! Dude - read a history book and get back to us here in what is - at the moment still - The United States of America mmkay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members schiz Posted July 30, 2011 Members Share Posted July 30, 2011 Finally someone on this thread that speaks with some real sensibility ^^^^ Your opinion on what happens in the US is null and void man. Move along... when your country has the issues we have.. get back to us... mmkay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SnowViking Posted July 30, 2011 Members Share Posted July 30, 2011 Your opinion on what happens in the US is null and void man. Move along... when your country has the issues we have.. get back to us... mmkay? It's a public forum - and the US isn't unique we have the same problems here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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