Members skuller Posted January 6, 2009 Members Share Posted January 6, 2009 inspired by yesterdays gripe about guitar center policies, i wrote this up. and this really is a two point blog, and i'm not sure where the differential is. western culture is defined by a continuing decline of willingness to afford what the fellow citizens, of american and worldly nationality create. this i believe can be attributed specifically to not affording to your fellow man what you claim for yourself. that's a bit broad. let me borrow a quote here.. "Tolerance is giving to every other human being every right that you claim for yourself."Robert Green Ingersoll1833-1899, Orator and Political Speechmaker ..now i'm not talking about tolerance. but it seems that our reptilian brain, the most core and basic of all vertebrates, is allowing us to continue manipulating eachother into giving us the most possible value for the least possible amount in return. i mean, our automatic self-defense mechanisms that we have in our brain to procure what we need and protect what we love, is doing it's job a little too well. we want to pay as little as possible for a new piece of technology (which is somebodies intellectual property) but when we resell it, we want it to be worth far more than what we paid for it. i'm not made of money, and i'm not sticking up for the man by saying i don't believe in haggling. but a person creates something, or a person offers themselves as a retailer to distribute the creation, and to survive must make a minimum amount in returns for that created something. they name the price, and we are expected to pay that if we want the property for ourselves. what do we think we're doing trying to get the creator to settle for less than what they say they deserve? what do you think you deserve? why should someone in need of your good or service pay you any less than what you say you deserve? i do believe there are scum ball owners of intellectual property that are obtaining far beyond what they need to survive, and pay off what it cost to create what they offer while providing small profits for their employees. this absolutely can not be the deterrent from being willing to invest in what others create though. a somewhat related tangent of events:- guy gets idea- guy researches how to manifest idea- guy obtains crew and materials- guy and crew create company- company engineers product- company declares "MSRP"- company sells product to retailer for cost- retailer "discounts" "MSRP" at 10% off MSRP and advertises "discount"- retailer secretly needs to take no less than 25% off to recoop funds- enter consumer- consumer doesn't like the 10% off price- consumer haggles- consumer "gets a deal" of a whopping 20% off MSRP! so is anyone ever really "getting a deal"? the percentages we get off a products price are based on what the people who made it say it's worth in the first place. what is the difference between what they say it's worth, what the retailer says it's worth, and what you think it's worth? it's a stupid circle. the "haggle allowing" retailer most commonly discounts the price off of MSRP, based on a considerable amount more than what they need to make. the customer can then "haggle", and is left to think they're getting a "deal". when in reality it was all a prediction based on the knowledge that the customer just needs to "feel like he's getting a deal", so he can then brag to friends about the deal he got. they all knew what you were going to pay in the first place, and they priced it over that, to make you feel like you're special when you walk out the door having "suckered that salesman"... who's the joke on? when a company like guitar center introduces a "no haggle" policy, who do you think you are questioning that? do you think the history of allowing haggling was so successful in generating profits, and returning customer rapport that they opted to change that policy? why not just extend the discounts to you directly instead of letting you get that sense of pride by "haggling" down the price to what they knew you would pay for it anyway? so that leads me more into the, let's say, creative artsy side of intellectual property. that is, music, film, photography, paintings, etc et al.. everyone loves these things, and most people i know have been molded into the individuals they are based almost exclusively on these mediums. a film that changed your life. a song that defines a moment between you and a lover. a picture that disturbed your core and changed your perspective of someone or something negatively or positively. an oil painting on canvas that defines the comfort you expect in your home, or reminds you of spending time growing up in your grandparents house. everyone is immensely impacted by such things, and the willingness to pay the creator for the impact they make for you is slim and declining. everyone loves intellectual property. no one i've ever met has told me that they do not like at least one tv show, at least one movie, at least one band, album, and song, at least one website, at least one cartoon, at least one underground obscure movement of art or mainstream movement at that. yet average joe musicians, visionaries, and anyone with a drive to share what they think, continue to make the stuff anyway, because it helps define them. one just happens to be able to catch wind of it without having to pay for it at this point. consider what a marketing student learns at school:- find the good, better, bests of the field- create campaign that enlarges their good, better, or best quality- knock the life out of the good, better, bests of opposing interest- manipulate fellow citizens into buying THIS product instead of THAT one it all comes down to the fact that we are trained to manipulate our fellow man, so that we as an individual may flourish. this has resulted in the separation of the money. i don't know the exact numbers, but i know that most of the money, is held by the smallest percentage of individuals. but really what is the alternative? if we let our guards down, the other guy does what he can to manipulate us into giving him the most, while receiving little for ourselves. if we do not live on the edge of paranoia, we can easily succomb to the wills of another being, careful or hostile in nature. our reptilian brain is present in all vertebrates for this very reason. if we could not process the idea that someone else just like us, could and will, in it's most primitive form, kill us, we would most certainly be dead. so where is the line? care and be consumed, or consume and leave little for others. i suppose greed might have something to do with it? apparently socialism doesn't work either. 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Members Goofball Jones Posted January 6, 2009 Members Share Posted January 6, 2009 You okay? You seem to be having a stroke or something...you need us to call anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Metrosonus Posted January 6, 2009 Members Share Posted January 6, 2009 ^ that too. i think most of us agreed with you? i've told best buy & comp usa much the same thing several times over because their employees choose to be dicks or their companies encourage it. mainly it's a decline in customer service.. people inhabit dead end jobs they believe are rights and not privileges and the current climate of customer service draws a straight bead from there. you voted with your wallet. you weren't buying into system that supports something you don't believe in, even if it was just 5.99$ that takes more conviction that just to say "WTF?! it's just 5.99$.". you don't owe anybody a 500 word essay.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChristianRock Posted January 6, 2009 Members Share Posted January 6, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members skuller Posted January 6, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 6, 2009 i wasn't trying to rebutte anyone. mostly my discussion yesterday connected to my trying to define why music isn't valued as much anymore. just wanted to share and vent? it is what it is. cheers guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Metrosonus Posted January 6, 2009 Members Share Posted January 6, 2009 when you could start to buy ripped jeans at the mall.. i'd say that's about when people stopped valuing it. in a metaphysical sense, i think people have externalized their sense of being. creativity and experience no longer comes from within, it comes from without. we exist in homogeny where we're told we're all equally special and that all we have to do is walk over to the wardrobe and pick out a costume for our selves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Goofball Jones Posted January 6, 2009 Members Share Posted January 6, 2009 i wasn't trying to rebutte anyone. mostly my discussion yesterday connected to my trying to define why music isn't valued as much anymore. Oh...is that all? That's easy: way way WAY too many distractions now a days. I know, I'm going to sound like an old man, but back when I was a teen, we didn't have video games or the net or text messaging or any of that. We had music and to a lesser degree movies (that you had to go to a theater to watch). Seriously, we'd go to the record store, find an album we wanted to buy, go home and actually sit down and listen to the album. Not play it in the background while we're surfing the web or reading or watching TV or playing a videogame or anything like that. Just sit, listen to the music and maybe read the liner notes and lyrics. It was for many of us the main source of entertainment and artistic exposure. Now, there's really just way too many distractions. Not saying it's good or bad, but really....compare today what we had back in the 70's and really, there wasn't that much to do back then. I'm also not saying that people today still don't do that. But back then that was pretty much ALL we had to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Metrosonus Posted January 6, 2009 Members Share Posted January 6, 2009 that's what I do at home in my living room. my wife will walk by and be like what's the matter with you? i'm like "listening to the stereo?" im too old fashioned i guess but i agree with you. that's what i was trying to say. i think people have lost or are losing the ability to interpret things on an emotional level and can only respond when they are easily spelled out for them. ironically i was reading in the paper an article about how the author felt that the kids movies today are getting scary and how it's a bad thing.. (due to the realism of CGI) and having a 6 year old my self, i've enjoyed plenty of kids movies, but i feel they are mostly fluff and not emotionally challenging enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sad Darwin Posted January 6, 2009 Members Share Posted January 6, 2009 I usually put a new album on my Ipod and walk around Seattle, randomly, and find someplace beautiful. That's not too hard in this city Music is holy to me, and I completely relate to the "distraction" comment, though I'm only 28. I grew up during the time the internet grew up, so I have a point of context for when we still used phone books, ect. Speaking of distractions, it's time to work out, take a shower, and work on music for hopefully the rest of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mytee2.0 Posted January 6, 2009 Members Share Posted January 6, 2009 holy {censored}, way to many words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sad Darwin Posted January 6, 2009 Members Share Posted January 6, 2009 Btw skuller, I think you just identified what Christians and Muslims call satan, what Buddhists call want, what Freud and Jung may have called the Id, and what I call the lesser or animalistic part of our being. We are at a cross roads right now. A few thousand years out of the woods, standing on the shoulders of a thousand intelligent men's inventions and epiphanies, but at heart and physically we are very much still animals. Hopefully we all avoid blowing each other up before we can progress out of these remnants of our past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members skuller Posted January 6, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 6, 2009 Btw skuller, I think you just identified what Christians and Muslims call satan, what Buddhists call want, what Freud and Jung may have called the Id, and what I call the lesser or animalistic part of our being. oh dear! what a can of worms that could be.. thanks to all the related responses. crazy times. i shoulda been born in 1950 so i could be my age when yes' fragile came out. those seem like the times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members droolmaster0 Posted January 6, 2009 Members Share Posted January 6, 2009 You okay? You seem to be having a stroke or something...you need us to call anyone? Maybe I'm having a stroke. I fell asleep after the first few sentences, and now the right side of my face has these long tentacles coming out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members skuller Posted January 6, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 6, 2009 Maybe I'm having a stroke. I fell asleep after the first few sentences, and now the right side of my face has these long tentacles coming out of it. hahaha. thanks for your contribution to my thread, and to society as a whole. comical relief is welcome everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Diametro Posted January 6, 2009 Members Share Posted January 6, 2009 I think you should re-visit your initial post every day and try knocking off 30 words, add a few paragraph breaks while answering a few of your own questions ... In a week, you'll have a gem of a post ... Until then ... you may also want to check this out ... Possibly the most brief and the best book on writing ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gribs Posted January 6, 2009 Members Share Posted January 6, 2009 Some random thoughts and opinions: I value music and pay for the music to which I listen. Sometimes I have payed more than once for a license to listen to the same product (i.e. album and then CD) and not just the price for the distribution medium (CD + burning process + packaging). I decided not to worry about that a long time ago because having the music on CD has a significant value to me. There are some types of "art" that I do not value very much or others value more than me. I do not believe in handing out grant money to people to make art for the sake of having art made. If the art they make has value then they should be able to sustain their art using the value that they create. That is how it works with the math and science I work on. If the math and science will not produce value and/or does not have the potential to produce value (within a certain time frame that grows shorter each year) then I do not work on it nor do I expect a handout from my fellow citizens to pay for it. Some group in Minnesota managed to pass an amendment to the state constitution requiring a certain amount of money to be set aside each year for environment, natural resources, clean water, and (of all things) art. It was sold to the common people as an amendment for "clean water" (you are for clean water aren't you?). The art rider was sneakily added and mentioned softly under the breath by the lobbyists going door-to-door. I could go on-and-on but I will stop now before working myself into a frenzy over this. I believe that no matter what economic system we set up and agree upon, there will always be people who game the system to maximize their material wealth as defined by the system. Many or most of those will do so at the expense of other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Severalist Posted January 6, 2009 Members Share Posted January 6, 2009 To the original poster... Thank you very much for the creation of the phrase "The value of worth." I was looking for a name for the sequel to my album "Nothings wetter than water" and I think I just found it. P.S. I read about the first few sentences of your post... Not enough car chases. In fact, the whole post is an insult to the sound byte culture I know and love, and leads me to believe you're pretentious for passionately believing in things. You should chillax dude and just make some cool music and stop taking things seriously bro because at least you're not in Africa man and you probably just need to get laid or lay off the drugs or take more drugs or open a drug store or store your drugs in a hollowed out yak called American Ingenuity or yak it up for... (etc. etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members skuller Posted January 6, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 6, 2009 OP sum: if i don't do it to them, they'll do it to me, therefore i will do it to them. fairness = nil. socialism doesn't work either. human condition is to seek and destroy. humanity is too prosperous for it's own good. *end* and to the severalist, send me a copy of your new cd with the title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Metrosonus Posted January 6, 2009 Members Share Posted January 6, 2009 you'll get it around the time the bea arthurs XXX dvd gets released.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Goofball Jones Posted January 6, 2009 Members Share Posted January 6, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members arctic88 Posted January 7, 2009 Members Share Posted January 7, 2009 Sounds like a case of the Mondays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members augerinn Posted January 7, 2009 Members Share Posted January 7, 2009 mean, our automatic self-defense mechanisms that we have in our brain to procure what we need and protect what we love, is doing it's job a little too well. Natural, God given instincts that are all out of whack. I can relate to this, I've suffered from this problem before. it all comes down to the fact that we are trained to manipulate our fellow man, so that we as an individual may flourish Self will believe that no matter what economic system we set up and agree upon, there will always be people who game the system to maximize their material wealth as defined by the system. Many or most of those will do so at the expense of other people. And, I wonder how happy they really are on the inside. I've found that trying to eliminate self, and trying to GIVE as much as I can pays huge dividends. Of course, not in a materialistic sense. I don't have much, but that's OK. I have expereinced other things that few others have been lucky enough to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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