Roland SP-700 and S-760

[deadvolvo1]

Less than 1 minute at fastest. With the RD-300v2 installed in the CD-Rack, I would say you can load an entire average 32MB Volume like follows:

 

CD-Rack Plextor 1210TS CDRW drive: 45-60 seconds

RD-300v2: 30-45 seconds

by comparison Zip: 60-90 seconds, maybe more with read errors

[Paolo Di Nicolantonio]

You're making it very hard for me to not snap up a few S-760s over a XV-5080. I guess the real question is, how long does it take the S-760 to load up the full 32Mb?

 

Well, consider also that to achieve similar results, you have to get:

 

S-760 (one or more)

SCSI drive/cables

Disc library (unless you have time to develop your own)

Quality effect processor

 

whereas with the XV-5080, you just press the power on button - I guess that's also something to think about

[deadvolvo1]

 

Well, consider also that to achieve similar results, you have to get: S-760 (one or more) SCSI drive/cables Disc library (unless you have time to develop your own) Quality effect processor whereas with the XV-5080, you just press the power on button - I guess that's also something to think about

 

 

Agreed, and don't forget:

 

DA-400 for extra outs

RC-100 for easier navigation and Alpha dial for programming

MU-1 mouse

Atari monitor or S-Video capable LCD for easy to read text and loop editing

[k2500x]

Yes that is exactly why I'm so torn. Honestly, between the Motif ES Rack and JD990 x2 (plus soon to have a TR-Rack from a friend), I think I've got enough rompler sounds. Still, I love the sound of that SRX-01 drum board and the fact that I can just turn it on and get those quality drums so quick. I may need to get a XV-5050 w/ SRX-01 and a S760 to see if I can work with it. So much GAS so little time.

 

Well, consider also that to achieve similar results, you have to get: S-760 (one or more) SCSI drive/cables Disc library (unless you have time to develop your own) Quality effect processor whereas with the XV-5080, you just press the power on button - I guess that's also something to think about

[deadvolvo1]

I really don't recommend the S760 unless you need the following:

 

Ability to accurately use existing S7xx libraries

Ability to use any sound you want in the WG of a kind of virtual JD-800 Sampler.

 

Even the "JD-800 Sampler" analogy is kind of wrong. The LFO's don't behave the same, and if you think you can transfer the settings from the JD-800 verbatim into the S760, think again. I tried this with the Iceman patch just as a "battle of the Icemen" test to see how it would turn out. The range of values are completely different between the two, to the point where you actually need mathematical formulae to do it accurately. The Envelopes as far as I can tell are identical sonically speaking, but the time axes are different.

 

For what I do in my own synthesizer explorations, the S760 brings a Hollywood feel, as well as a mid-to-late 90's sound that I for one LOVE. Common sense and practicality simply doesn't enter into it, and I wish it did sometimes. It doesn't get used enough for what I've put into it.

 

All that said, you absolutely must hear Sound Gallery Stackware in the S760. Amazing!!!!!

[ElectricPuppy]

 

Agreed, and don't forget: DA-400 for extra outs RC-100 for easier navigation and Alpha dial for programming MU-1 mouse Atari monitor or S-Video capable LCD for easy to read text and loop editing

 

When I bought my 760, it pretty much wiped out my budget, so I didn't get the OP board. Still don't have the OP board, so I've only ever used mine via the front panel.

 

Yeah, it's cramped, but do-able.

[deadvolvo1]

It makes me feel guilty to say so, but I got mine with Atari monitor + cable, OP-760-1 board, mouse, and 32MB of RAM for $75 off eBay, summer 2007. Depreciation at its absolute worst.

 

Something told me not to think, just buy. I knew the JD-800 filters were in there somewhere, and the SCSI side was familiar for me, like working with a Mac.....That's about it.

 

When the S760 arrived in a cardboard bucket, that is a box with one side completely missing, I thought for sure I was going to find the thing totally destroyed.

 

Not at all. The screen turned out fine except for 1 line, and its never given me any problems.

 

Bringing the thing into the 21st century, on the other hand, was not so easy. I bought a second S760 setup for three times as much a year later and sent it to a friend whom I work on music with. Figuring out how to quickly and easily send work to eachother over the net took many hours of trial and error, but needless to say it is possible.

[ElectricPuppy]

 

$75 off eBay, summer 2007. Depreciation at its absolute worst.

 

Ugh.

 

Bought mine when they were still new, in '93 or so, for upwards of $2000. Also bought 32MB then which was $700, the going rate at the time.

 

Serious Facepalm. Oh well, I knew I wasn't buying it as a financial investment!

[deadvolvo1]

Yeah it could be worse. Could have bought a Mac LC-II for that price around the same time. You can't even get $10 for one these days, and you'd have an easier time finding one in the trash than on eBay!

[k2500x]

The fact that the S-760 has no FX doesn't bother me. I find that I turn off all the global FX on my romplers anyway. All the reverb and chorus do is muddy up the sound.

 

Of course if all I'm going to be doing is playing back sample CDs (with limited editing) I wonder if I should just go with an AKAI S6000 or Z8. It will end up costing the same as a few S760s, and I'll get 80+gig HD and 256+ meg of ram, 64-128 polys, faster loading. Of course I know the answer is -the sound-.

[k2500x]

It would seem that any DB25 switch would work since the S-760 operates on the slow SCSI-I standard. I wonder if this simple $10 switch would do the trick?

 

http://www.cablesonline.net/dbabswitbox1.html

 

It's made for printers, but it also claims to "work in SCSI applications".

 

 

 

There are several options to go about this. One is to get a SCSI switch, which is simply a device you connect each of your samplers to, plus a drive chain, and then you can select which sampler can access the drive chain manually from the front. Glyph made them, but in Hollywood where they had rack after rack of S760s and SCSI drives, they often had custom build SCSI Routers (not switches) that didn't require switching. It simply fooled each S760 into thinking it was the host and was always connected to the SCSI drive chain, and fooled the SCSI drive chain into thinking it was connected to only one host. Good luck finding one. The way I do things, I have an S760 with a Roland CD-Rack connected. In the expansion bay is a MCDisk RD-300 v2, which allows TWO PCMCIA slots to work at once with the S760. Each PCMCIA slot has a PCMCIA to CF adapter. One CF is 1GB (my "hard drive" including S760 system OS), and the other is any one of several 32MB CFs I use for specific projects. You can then just pull the CF from the RD-300 and use it in another S760, or you can make an ISO or CDR file of it on a computer to save it for backup or to send to a partner over the net. If you can find a SCSI switch, that type of setup would be all you would need for 3 760s. Most of the SCSI switches I've seen only supported 3 hosts.

 

[keepntime]

after scouring the net for info on this machine all I came up with is the manual in PDF, and a compatability chart outlining CDROMS HD etc compatible devices. according to the guide the sp-700 can use the modern zipdrives but only with the 1.12 eeprom OS update. I did notice that the MS-1 has the same OS version but am unable to confirm if I can use that OS to update (a shot in the dark, but thats thinking outside the box) I have found references to several files

 

MS-1 System 1.12 and Demo

MS1update.ZIP or MS1_V112.ZIP

 

"The MIDI file, O_S112s.MID

I was also thinking of buying an external HD enclosure box and adding a 600MB SCSI HD since according to the compatability guide any apple/mac HD should work.

can anyone reccomend a good setup to transfer my samples to the sp-700?

 

thanks

[deadvolvo1]

First off, don't even think of trying to update the SP-700 with anything other than SP-700 OS and Firmware.

 

Second, to transfer samples to it, there are several options. It really depends on what format the samples are and what you intend to do with them.

 

The SP-700 is designed to play back actual Roland format libraries, not just to dump raw samples to. If you wan't to do raw samples, you've got the wrong machine. If you want to use Roland libraries, just burn them to CD and use a CD-ROM drive on the SP-700 to load them.

 

If you could clarify what you plan to do exactly with the SP-700 maybe I can help steer you in a more precise direction.

[keepntime]

thanks for the words of warning. I was doing some reading and discovered that the sp-700 will format a SCSI HD of up to 600MB, I naturally assumed that if that was the case I could go that route and just copy my samples to the HD and I would have access to them, or if I did the ZIP drive option then I could bounce my samples from the DAW to the zips. but I think Im hearing that it is not going to work that way? and that I am limited to the ROLAND libraries ONLY, and I cannot create my own sample LIBS unless I do them in ROLAND format?

 

also I got it for free from the local left over garage sale..

 

I wont hurt to give it a go..

my current setup is a roland S-10, SP-202 and 303, boss dr5, 5 PAD midi controller, and my PC.

I have the manual, but I have not gone thru it because Im not highly impressed with the web results regarding this machine.

not really sure what Im going to do with it if I cannot load up my own (or for that matter ANY) SAMPLES.

I have no SCSI HD for it and finding a 600MB one on ebay is not promising.

heck at this point I dont know what im gonna do.

 

 

 

First off, don't even think of trying to update the SP-700 with anything other than SP-700 OS and Firmware. Second, to transfer samples to it, there are several options. It really depends on what format the samples are and what you intend to do with them. The SP-700 is designed to play back actual Roland format libraries, not just to dump raw samples to. If you wan't to do raw samples, you've got the wrong machine. If you want to use Roland libraries, just burn them to CD and use a CD-ROM drive on the SP-700 to load them. If you could clarify what you plan to do exactly with the SP-700 maybe I can help steer you in a more precise direction.

 

[deadvolvo1]

With the SP-700 here are your basic options just to transfer non-Roland format samples to it:

 

- Convert load, lets you import samples but not programs from Akai S-1000 CDs

- ChickenSys Translator which lets you create Roland format samples from other formats, then burn them to CD

- SCSI transfer using Samplifier, but this is an ancient piece of software and you need a Macintosh with onboard SCSI that can run OS9

 

If you're not down for that, I recommend you eBay the SP-700 and get an S-760, but ONLY if you plan on going the whole nine yards with it. Read the rest of this thread to understand what that entails. If you aren't up for it, then I wouldn't bother with the S7xx series at all. Better off with something more modern.

 

That's not to say that I don't love my S760s.....They are just wonderful, but for very specific applications that it doesn't sound like you are in need of.

[deadvolvo1]

It would seem that any DB25 switch would work since the S-760 operates on the slow SCSI-I standard. I wonder if this simple $10 switch would do the trick? http://www.cablesonline.net/dbabswitbox1.html It's made for printers, but it also claims to "work in SCSI applications".

 

Just saw this from K2500x.....For the record about generic DB25 as SCSI switches:

 

One problem with SCSI in general is that SCSI controllers can be easily fried from hot plugging and unplugging. Macintosh folklore during the SCSI era was that you CAN do it by hand, if and ONLY if you pull the plug straight out in one quick movement. The reason for this was because if some pin connections were broken before others, the buffers of the SCSI controllers would get fried and you'd never be able to use that SCSI controller again. It happened to a Quadra 700 of mine when I accidentally booted the machine with the internal SCSI ribbon not fully connected. That was it for the whole machine aside from floppy booting. Shame!

 

So....The same rules do not apply with parallel ports. If the device says "also SCSI applications", it likely means absolutely NO hot switching.

 

All who read this post: don't let this be what happens to your SCSI sampler. You were warned!

[aeon]

- SCSI transfer using Samplifier, but this is an ancient piece of software and you need a Macintosh with onboard SCSI that can run OS9

 

Thanks! I never knew about this little app!

 

 

cheers,

Ian

[keepntime]

I had been hoping to incorporate with my existing setup, but I definately dont want to 760 and then get all the periperals to make it really go!

I will be ebaying the 700.

 

it would have been nice if I could load and transfer samples via midi like with my s-10.

 

thanks for the info!!

 

 

 

 

With the SP-700 here are your basic options just to transfer non-Roland format samples to it: - Convert load, lets you import samples but not programs from Akai S-1000 CDs - ChickenSys Translator which lets you create Roland format samples from other formats, then burn them to CD - SCSI transfer using Samplifier, but this is an ancient piece of software and you need a Macintosh with onboard SCSI that can run OS9 If you're not down for that, I recommend you eBay the SP-700 and get an S-760, but ONLY if you plan on going the whole nine yards with it. Read the rest of this thread to understand what that entails. If you aren't up for it, then I wouldn't bother with the S7xx series at all. Better off with something more modern. That's not to say that I don't love my S760s.....They are just wonderful, but for very specific applications that it doesn't sound like you are in need of.

 

[keepntime]

you said that Samplifier can communicate via SCSI , I assume SCSI cable to SCSI cable?

 

Does anyone here have a 700 setup? can you info me as to what CDROM or HD you have?

 

Thanks for your info peeps!!

 

 

With the SP-700 here are your basic options just to transfer non-Roland format samples to it:

 

- Convert load, lets you import samples but not programs from Akai S-1000 CDs

- ChickenSys Translator which lets you create Roland format samples from other formats, then burn them to CD

- SCSI transfer using Samplifier, but this is an ancient piece of software and you need a Macintosh with onboard SCSI that can run OS9

[deadvolvo1]

Fastest option I know of for CD drives is a Plextor PX 1210TS.

 

You need to set Parity mode to ON for that drive.

 

Generally speaking, any Apple CD-ROM drive will work.

 

Hard drives are a different story. They are tricky with the S750, S770, and SP700. The S760 is a bit more tolerant. I don't recommend you use one. A Spyrus/MCDisk RD-300 is your best bet. You have to be extremely careful with hard drives due to the head parking issue, and of course the volatile nature of 15+ year-old hard drives.

 

Zip and Jaz are sketchy also. I don't recommend them. These days you really can't rely on them, and the SCSI flash reader/writers are worth the extra $$ because of the speed, ease of use (ability to backup to a PC or Mac, transfer samples to/from, and data security), and availability of CF cards. Some RD-300s will give you TWO fully functional drives in one.

 

Hope this helps.

[k2500x]

Just saw this from K2500x.....For the record about generic DB25 as SCSI switches: One problem with SCSI in general is that SCSI controllers can be easily fried from hot plugging and unplugging. Macintosh folklore during the SCSI era was that you CAN do it by hand, if and ONLY if you pull the plug straight out in one quick movement. The reason for this was because if some pin connections were broken before others, the buffers of the SCSI controllers would get fried and you'd never be able to use that SCSI controller again. It happened to a Quadra 700 of mine when I accidentally booted the machine with the internal SCSI ribbon not fully connected. That was it for the whole machine aside from floppy booting. Shame! So....The same rules do not apply with parallel ports. If the device says "also SCSI applications", it likely means absolutely NO hot switching. All who read this post: don't let this be what happens to your SCSI sampler. You were warned!

 

The idea was to get one flash card reader, and then be able to load up each of my 760s with my favorite sounds one after the other. I don't need to jump back and fourth between the units to read and write from them if that's what you mean by hot switching, I know that wouldn't work. The other idea was to get 4 Jaz drives and just be able to load up each unit at the same time. It would cost less, take less time to load, and I could always back up my data by making a disk image on my PC.

[deadvolvo1]

If the host (S760) is still powered on, it is still considered "hot switching". So you'd still only be able to use 1 S760 at a time. That is, if the DB25 switcher doesn't instantaneously break and connect all 25 pins at exactly the same time, every time, no matter how slow/fast, etc. you move the switch.

 

Why not 4 CD-ROM drives and 1 flash drive? That way you can transfer data to and from your computer, burn what you need onto CD, and only need 1 CD to share the data among 4 S760s. Best of both worlds....Reliable, cheap, fast, and convenient.

[k2500x]

 

If the host (S760) is still powered on, it is still considered "hot switching". So you'd still only be able to use 1 S760 at a time. That is, if the DB25 switcher doesn't instantaneously break and connect all 25 pins at exactly the same time, every time, no matter how slow/fast, etc. you move the switch. Why not 4 CD-ROM drives and 1 flash drive? That way you can transfer data to and from your computer, burn what you need onto CD, and only need 1 CD to share the data among 4 S760s. Best of both worlds....Reliable, cheap, fast, and convenient.

 

 

On a S-760 mailing list I read an archive post from a person that uses a manual switch and works it just as I described. Switch to A, turn unit A on, load up OS and sounds. Switch to B, Turn unit B on, load OS and sounds. Switch to C, turn unit C on, load OS and sounds, etc. He claims it works perfect.

 

The thing with CD drives that I noticed is that they are painfully slow to load the sounds. I'd say up to 3 times as long as it takes the Jaz in many cases. It has more to due with the seek times I think as each file seems to make the drive click and sputter and often slow down. I've got two CD drives, one of them plextor, and get very similar results with both. The Jaz just flys through the files like an HD would. The other issue is I can't write to a CD for on the spot patch editing. So I'd either have to get 4 flash readers (very costly), or a scsi switch that actually worked like we know they won't. Jaz drives for 10 to 20 bux a pop off ebay seem to be the best solution.

[hogger]

 

Of course if all I'm going to be doing is playing back sample CDs (with limited editing) I wonder if I should just go with an AKAI S6000 or Z8. It will end up costing the same as a few S760s, and I'll get 80+gig HD and 256+ meg of ram, 64-128 polys, faster loading. Of course I know the answer is -the sound-.

 

I'd say yes -- get an Akai instead. Perhaps a S5000 or Z4 if you're trying to get out cheap. You can find a used, loaded S5000 for around $300 usually.

 

When you talk about the roland sound, what is it you're referring to? These are samples, after all. Samples are samples, unless you're talking about old 12-bit samplers, filters, LFOs, or effects. The Akais have excellent filters, and decent effects (except the reverb, it sucks). The biggest reason for getting an Akai for me was the RAM and the polyphony. I can't imagine using a RAM-challenged sampler nowadays.

[deadvolvo1]

On a S-760 mailing list I read an archive post from a person that uses a manual switch and works it just as I described. Switch to A, turn unit A on, load up OS and sounds. Switch to B, Turn unit B on, load OS and sounds. Switch to C, turn unit C on, load OS and sounds, etc. He claims it works perfect.

 

Well better to try on your S7xx than mine. Just don't forget, once the SCSI controller is expired, there basically goes the whole thing. If it works, I will be very grateful for your bravery. Please let me know if it works out.

 

When you talk about the roland sound, what is it you're referring to? These are samples, after all. Samples are samples, unless you're talking about old 12-bit samplers, filters, LFOs, or effects. The Akais have excellent filters, and decent effects (except the reverb, it sucks). The biggest reason for getting an Akai for me was the RAM and the polyphony. I can't imagine using a RAM-challenged sampler nowadays.

 

The "Roland sound" is that of the best sounding DAC's I've ever heard in a sampler, not to mention the legendary JD-800 filter.

 

Plus you can't use any of the wonderful S7xx libraries from Spectrasonics and the like in anything else....

 

Unless you are one of those people that can't hear the difference between a pair of Yorx or SounDesign bookshelf speakers and a pair of Yamaha NS-10s.....In which case, by all means......Enjoy