Members gusfinley Posted November 22, 2005 Members Share Posted November 22, 2005 Hi, I have been quite curious as to what these amps sound like, anybody have clips? I am looking to build a new DIY. I would like to do an 18W with a TMB stack. I am not sure about the tremelo channel, however. I have been pretty curious about the 20W marhshall and thought perhaps I could do a DIY with the 20W channel and the 18W channel, and maybe a master tremelo.... anybody have any info, advice for something like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Duesentrieb Posted November 22, 2005 Members Share Posted November 22, 2005 www.18watt.com Pete Stratotone has built a 18 Watter w/TMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gusfinley Posted November 22, 2005 Author Members Share Posted November 22, 2005 too bad I can't seem to log onto the site or create and account.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stratotone Posted November 22, 2005 Members Share Posted November 22, 2005 I actually built an 18 watt Marshall with the trem channel stripped out, and a non TMB (TMB means treble/middle/bass, it's a tone stack, and robs gain. I figured from looking at the layout that these amps need all the gain they can get!) It's one of the 'lite' models on 18watt.com. I also modded it a bit for gain. One input is parallelled like a Matchless, other is 'regular'. http://mothrastewart.com/newaudio/18wattscryin.mp3 I even used cheap iron (hammond 125E output!) and it sounds great. I have to use it with a Weber MASS unit though, because it's pretty loud and you have to crank it to get the goods. It's not a master volume amp, but cleans up better than any amp I've played and is amazingly touch sensitive. It's not 'high gain' but you can put a pedal in front and get nice feedback for solos. If you dig vintage tones, it rocks. If you dig modern scooped/tight tones, forget it. Think of it as a little plexi and you're on the right track, in my opinion. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gusfinley Posted November 22, 2005 Author Members Share Posted November 22, 2005 I definately dig the vintage tones... Looking at the schematic the tremelo channel looks as though it may have a bit more gain, but maybe not... Does the tremelo channel sound significantly different than the normal one? Still looking for info on the 20W channels, too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stratotone Posted November 22, 2005 Members Share Posted November 22, 2005 Originally posted by gusfinley I definately dig the vintage tones... Looking at the schematic the tremelo channel looks as though it may have a bit more gain, but maybe not... Does the tremelo channel sound significantly different than the normal one? Still looking for info on the 20W channels, too... I just built it one channel because I didn't need the tremolo - not a big fan of it. I played with cathode resistors and plate resistors in the preamp a little and tweaked the bypass caps. I checked out one a guy built for sale at his music store (he wanted $1600 for a combo!) that was built 'stock' - mine had a little more gain and sounded better to my ear. Tremolo channel didn't sound much different to me than the other one on his build. Never heard a 20w, but read that they weren't as good sounding as the 18s. Don't know for sure though. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bob-I Posted November 22, 2005 Members Share Posted November 22, 2005 Originally posted by Stratotone I actually built an 18 watt Marshall with the trem channel stripped out, and a non TMB (TMB means treble/middle/bass, it's a tone stack, and robs gain. I even used cheap iron (hammond 125E output!) and it sounds great. Pete I did the same thing as Pete. I picked up an old Crate Classic 30 that had been gutted except for the PT. It was a simple build, just a volume and tone control. Sounds great and a lot louder than you'd expect. Here's a few clips, with a Strat and a Weber 1230-55 speaker. 18 watt on #4 18 Watt on #10 Note the controls go to 12 so it's not cranked wide open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SuperStrat Posted November 22, 2005 Members Share Posted November 22, 2005 You can check out the November at AX84.com On the order of 18Watt Marshall/Plexi... designed by Aiken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bob-I Posted November 22, 2005 Members Share Posted November 22, 2005 Oh yea... the Weber kit is nice too. $550 completehttps://weberspeakerscom.secure.powweb.com/store/kit_r.htm Scroll down to the 6M18 kit. It's the 18 watt Marshall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tadams Posted November 22, 2005 Members Share Posted November 22, 2005 I just finished an 18 watt GDS clone, head version with tremolo. And yes, the trem channel does have a little more gain than the normal channel. And you can turn the tremelo effect off. I use it this way most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stratotone Posted November 22, 2005 Members Share Posted November 22, 2005 Originally posted by SuperStrat You can check out the November at AX84.comOn the order of 18Watt Marshall/Plexi... designed by Aiken. Totally different beasts. The November uses 6V6s, the 18 watt amps have a much different feel since most of the overdrive on the 18 watt is from crushing the EL84s. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Minnie The Moocher Posted November 22, 2005 Members Share Posted November 22, 2005 Originally posted by Stratotone Never heard a 20w, but read that they weren't as good sounding as the 18s. Don't know for sure though. Pete Totally wrong indeed. I have both and love them both, for different reasons though: the 18 watt is bluesier, warmer, the 20 watts is rock'n roll all the way, great in-your-face punch and it really deserves its "mini plexi" nickname, it's hard to believe it's a EL84 pair you're hearing and not EL34 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SuperStrat Posted November 22, 2005 Members Share Posted November 22, 2005 Originally posted by Stratotone Totally different beasts. The November uses 6V6s, the 18 watt amps have a much different feel since most of the overdrive on the 18 watt is from crushing the EL84s.Pete There is a variation of the November with 6V6's, but it was developed for -- and the schematics are there for -- the EL84 version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gusfinley Posted November 22, 2005 Author Members Share Posted November 22, 2005 I've been looking for a good 20W and 18W schematic so that I can compare the two... Its a little hard to see some of the schematics that I have so far, but it does look like the 20W is more like a plexi. It has the 300uF bypass cap... that probably contirubtes alot to its punchy sound..... can't see much else from my fuzzy schematics though..... about the 20W..... Are the two channels comparable to the two channels on the plexi? Is the Bass channel useful? How about linking the channels? I am trying to come up with a combination of the 18W and 20W so I can get both in the same amp. Perhaps even a swtich to go from 18W to 20W, maybe even a pentode/triode switch... Its seems like it would be a fun amp to mess around with... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gusfinley Posted November 22, 2005 Author Members Share Posted November 22, 2005 Originally posted by Stratotone I played with cathode resistors and plate resistors in the preamp a little and tweaked the bypass caps. Pete Pete, What were your final values on these components? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RMS Posted November 22, 2005 Members Share Posted November 22, 2005 The 20 W Marshall lacks a gain stage and the cathode follower of the big (50&100W) Marshalls. Plus, the power stage is significantly different. That's nothing against the 20 W amp, but don't expect it to sound like a 20 W version of a Super Lead. For that, I'd build the previously mentioned November. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stratotone Posted November 22, 2005 Members Share Posted November 22, 2005 Originally posted by gusfinley Pete, What were your final values on these components? I'd have to measure them... I did it by ear. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stratotone Posted November 22, 2005 Members Share Posted November 22, 2005 Originally posted by Minnie The Moocher Totally wrong indeed. I have both and love them both, for different reasons though: the 18 watt is bluesier, warmer, the 20 watts is rock'n roll all the way, great in-your-face punch and it really deserves its "mini plexi" nickname, it's hard to believe it's a EL84 pair you're hearing and not EL34 . From a usenet post I just deja'd: I've looked at the old, original schematics of the 1974 (18-watt) and 2016 (20-watt) Marshall amps and the only real difference in the basic amp circuitry is that the 20-watter has a solid state state rectifier and resultant higher supply voltages. All component (resistor and cap) values are identical. So, one might say that 18-watter is the 'tweed' version of thie amp which would give it an earlier and perhaps sweeter break-up point (and less headroom). Both these amps have two pair of Hi/Lo inputs, each pair driving a dedicated single 12AX7 stage and tone stack which are summed and fed into the phase inverter. I built my 18 watter with an octal rectifier so I could swap em out for different plate voltages. Guess I need to wire up some diodes in an octal base and turn it into a 20 watt. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stratotone Posted November 22, 2005 Members Share Posted November 22, 2005 Originally posted by RMS The 20 W Marshall lacks a gain stage and the cathode follower of the big (50&100W) Marshalls. Plus, the power stage is significantly different. That's nothing against the 20 W amp, but don't expect it to sound like a 20 W version of a Super Lead. For that, I'd build the previously mentioned November. I guess I should have said my amp sounds 'plexi-ish' - it's not going to sound just like a plexi anymore imho than a november is, imho... nothing is going to sound just like a plexi but... a plexi. Or a 50-100 watt amp that is built to the same schematics with the same transformers, etc. Maybe I should just say my 18 watt sounds like a vintage marshall and leave it at that. It's a great amp though, and I'd say anyone with the time and aptitude should build one. I don't think I'd pay a lot of money for a kit though - just grab a lite schematic off the 18watt website and buy your parts. It's not that complicated of an amp. If you grab a schematic, source parts, do the work yourself, you're going to learn a lot more than just buying a kit and doing it that way. Plus you'll save some money and be able to pick all your components... and modifications later on will be much easier. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kannibul Posted November 22, 2005 Members Share Posted November 22, 2005 Originally posted by Stratotone Totally different beasts. The November uses 6V6s, the 18 watt amps have a much different feel since most of the overdrive on the 18 watt is from crushing the EL84s.Pete The November is EL84 - the "October" is the 6V6 version Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stratotone Posted November 22, 2005 Members Share Posted November 22, 2005 Originally posted by kannibul The November is EL84 - the "October" is the 6V6 version I've already been corrected Jeff, ya rubbin it in? Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RMS Posted November 22, 2005 Members Share Posted November 22, 2005 Originally posted by Stratotone I guess I should have said my amp sounds 'plexi-ish' - it's not going to sound just like a plexi anymore imho than a november is, imho... nothing is going to sound just like a plexi but... a plexi. Or a 50-100 watt amp that is built to the same schematics with the same transformers, etc. Maybe I should just say my 18 watt sounds like a vintage marshall and leave it at that. It's a great amp though, and I'd say anyone with the time and aptitude should build one. I don't think I'd pay a lot of money for a kit though - just grab a lite schematic off the 18watt website and buy your parts. It's not that complicated of an amp. If you grab a schematic, source parts, do the work yourself, you're going to learn a lot more than just buying a kit and doing it that way. Plus you'll save some money and be able to pick all your components... and modifications later on will be much easier. Pete FWIW, I wasn't responding to you or picking on anyone. I was just noting that the 20 W (or 18 W) isn't going to sound like a little Super Lead. A November (or October) is designed for that task, so is where I'd look for ideas on lower wattage amps that emulate the sound of the bigger Marshalls. The November can sound very close to a little Super Lead. Be forewarned though that they don't do it at anything approaching bedroom volume. Little is relative here! The clips of the 18W sound great and I'd love to have one, but I think of them more like a little Bluesbreaker...which is a vintage Marshall! I agree with sourcing your own parts, but I can see how a kit would be a better option for some people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kannibul Posted November 22, 2005 Members Share Posted November 22, 2005 Originally posted by Stratotone I've already been corrected Jeff, ya rubbin it in? Pete I'm as smooth as 10-grit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stratotone Posted November 22, 2005 Members Share Posted November 22, 2005 Originally posted by RMS FWIW, I wasn't responding to you or picking on anyone. I agree with sourcing your own parts, but I can see how a kit would be a better option for some people. It's cool Ross, I wasn't really responding to that issue for you in particular. Just in general. The only thing I don't like about a kit is that it lays it all out in front of you so to speak... and you won't really learn that much from it other than assembly. By the time someone researches parts, figures out a board layout and parts layout, etc - it's a lot of work. Kits do come in different classes though, and if someone is just looking for an amp for sweat equity and a few bucks, it's hard to beat a kit. I'm thinking about buying a weber kit or two because they are priced really well Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kannibul Posted November 22, 2005 Members Share Posted November 22, 2005 Originally posted by RMS FWIW, I wasn't responding to you or picking on anyone. I was just noting that the 20 W (or 18 W) isn't going to sound like a little Super Lead. A November (or October) is designed for that task, so is where I'd look for ideas on lower wattage amps that emulate the sound of the bigger Marshalls. The November can sound very close to a little Super Lead. Be forewarned though that they don't do it at anything approaching bedroom volume. Little is relative here! The clips of the 18W sound great and I'd love to have one, but I think of them more like a little Bluesbreaker...which is a vintage Marshall! I agree with sourcing your own parts, but I can see how a kit would be a better option for some people. For me, the whole thing is the self-doubt aspect. Maybe that's why I come on a bit strong after accomplishing one. I tried doing my own, but it failed. I bought the Metro to see if I could learn what I did wrong - then see if I could approach it again - but, I haven't got the desire to do another build for a while Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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