Yamaha CP1 and CP5...modeled or sampled?

[evildragon]

I imagine modulating a ring modulator with the d-beam would be fun.

 

You can even trigger samples with the D-Beam. Imagine like pretending you're throwing thunderbolts

[Nillerbabs]

@ Goldphinga: Disagree. Of course we're talking Youtube quality, but when compared to other youtube quality demos of other instruments, to me this sounds like the best Rhodes emulator so far. New Nord samples might change that, though... Also disagree on the quality of the playing. The rhodes demo at 3:00 in this vid...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpHU2Qh_2Ao&feature=related

 

... really displays both an excellent and highly flexible sound and dynamically varied playing. Particularly the tonal flexibility and the detail puts these sounds at a higher rate than the SV-1 rhodes for me.

[jpapas]

How come there's no videos of the CP50?

[goldphinga]

Im talking about the demos on yamahas namm page specifically but im still not impressed by any of the sounds coming out of this from any of the vid clips. The pianos sound harsh and processed, the rhodes sound unrealistic flat and plasticky. BUT This will be a test in person thing for me.

 

It amazes me how wrong some manufacturers can get the sound of a rhodes..It also amazes me that people will settle for rhodes sounds that sound nothing like the real thing!!Now the Nord new samples are a different matter. To me, Nord are like the Apple Computer of the keyboard world. I.e. you pay a premium but they get it right, nail the sound and they are updated regularly with high quality content allowing the instrument to evolve over time.

 

To pay the money that it costs for a new CP and then deal with unrealistic sounds-well thats money down the drain! If Yamaha or any other manufacturers for that matter want to show their products in the best light then give us direct sound and DETAILED demos of the products not quick overviews to give an impression something is good when it isnt. Ive not seen a single demo with proper detailed going into of the rhodes sounds. As i said im completely unimpressed.

 

Clips-http://www.yamaha.com/namm/

[Masaaki]

Well, I'm not sure, how much we can ask at this moment. The product is just announced. I hope they have .wav sound file in uncompressed form, directly recorded from the instrument. That would allow us to audition the quality of the sound using the best equipment (headphone, studio monitor, hi fi speakers) we have as testers. Even so, the final verdict needs to come after touching, playing, listening to the sound coming out from the instrument, "live". I'll hold my verdict until mid-March.

[Goofball Jones]

in other words "I have a lot of money invested in Nord, therefore it sounds better".

 

 

Nah, I'm only kidding....hey, you're alright...

[goldphinga]

in other words "I have a lot of money invested in Nord, therefore it sounds better". Nah, I'm only kidding....hey, you're alright...

 

Thanks!!

I dont have much money invested in Nord anyway, just the stage compact and thats over 2 years old now but man the way the Nords work is geared just right for live performance and they sound the most convincing of any of the vintage emulation boards. Trust me ive tried them all extensively through my review work. Obviously everyone has their own opinion of course but for me the Nords win out way ahead of the others. Im lucky as i have real rhodes, b3, clav and moogs here so im able to exhastively compare the new to the old etc-the Nords just have the right sound and vibe.

 

I wanted to love the SV1 believe me and there were many aspects that really shone out as great but it fell short in some significant ways too and i fear that this new Yamaha will go the same way..You can tell a lot from youtube clips despite what some may say. You get a good overall feel of sound, though perhaps not at best quailty, but make no mistake you can tell if something has that mojo or not. Please manufacturers do your research in the future. We need splits, layers, easy interfaces, lightweight with flash based os's so they can be easily upgraded etc etc...AND dont call something that sort of sounds like a rhodes or wurli or clav great, if it doesnt actually sound anything like the real deal.

 

Im sick of seeing so many boards falling short with stunted features. Im not by nature a complainer but for **** sake, i think us keyboardists deserve better than this at the prices we are made to pay for these products. Obviously im reserving final judgement on the yammy until i play it so im prepared to be impressed by it but judging on some of the stuff ive seen lately i wouldnt be surprised if its not happening. Lets see.

[Support Guy]

http://www.yamahasynth.com/products/stage_pianos/cp1/

 

There are a couple of good rhodes demos on the right if you scroll down.

[goldphinga]

that first rhodes demo is quite cool actually..the second one is the sound thats been used in all the rhodes demos ive heard (the '78 model)- it sounds awful

[NuSkoolTone]

*Sigh* If ONLY Yamaha would dip its toes into organ modeling. You'd think the CP1 would have that too for the price point. Even so, I hope some of that stuff finds its way to their workstation line. Sounds great!

 

I also wish the SV-1 had the CX-3 Engine. Major FAIL there IMO. It would also compete with the Nord/VR700 more directly in that sense. I played the SV1 recently, and while the organ is certainly playable, I can see why they aren't playing it up.

[Goofball Jones]

*Sigh* If ONLY Yamaha would dip its toes into organ modeling. You'd think the CP1 would have that too for the price point. Even so, I hope some of that stuff finds its way to their workstation line. Sounds great! I also wish the SV-1 had the CX-3 Engine. Major FAIL there IMO. It would also compete with the Nord/VR700 more directly in that sense. I played the SV1 recently, and while the organ is certainly playable, I can see why they aren't playing it up.

 

Don't think they want to target that with the new CP models...with their weighted, Ivory-like-coated wooden keys.

 

But I don't see what the CP1 is offering that makes it $2.5K more than the CP5 other than a few more piano voices and a 3-pedal foot pedal and DX-7 modeling...a bit bigger display I guess. I've read through the literature but I'm missing something as it seems that the CP5 has more "stuff".

[NuSkoolTone]

 

Don't think they want to target that with the new CP models...with their weighted, Ivory-like-coated wooden keys. But I don't see what the CP1 is offering that makes it $2.5K more than the CP5 other than a few more piano voices and a 3-pedal foot pedal and DX-7 modeling...a bit bigger display I guess. I've read through the literature but I'm missing something as it seems that the CP5 has more "stuff".

 

 

I'm sure you're right, same goes for the SV-1.

 

I don't see the big deal about FM though. I mean the FS1R nearly 10 (?) years ago did some SERIOUS FM and more, surely the processing power to do that has come down and they still have the technology. So I see it as a bend over and grab your ankles money grab. Perhaps they're using a different approach this time, but I figure FM is FM no?

[Vintagekeys]

Thanks!! I dont have much money invested in Nord anyway, just the stage compact and thats over 2 years old now but man the way the Nords work is geared just right for live performance and they sound the most convincing of any of the vintage emulation boards. Trust me ive tried them all extensively through my review work. Obviously everyone has their own opinion of course but for me the Nords win out way ahead of the others. Im lucky as i have real rhodes, b3, clav and moogs here so im able to exhastively compare the new to the old etc-the Nords just have the right sound and vibe. I wanted to love the SV1 believe me and there were many aspects that really shone out as great but it fell short in some significant ways too and i fear that this new Yamaha will go the same way..You can tell a lot from youtube clips despite what some may say. You get a good overall feel of sound, though perhaps not at best quailty, but make no mistake you can tell if something has that mojo or not. Please manufacturers do your research in the future. We need splits, layers, easy interfaces, lightweight with flash based os's so they can be easily upgraded etc etc...AND dont call something that sort of sounds like a rhodes or wurli or clav great, if it doesnt actually sound anything like the real deal. Im sick of seeing so many boards falling short with stunted features. Im not by nature a complainer but for **** sake, i think us keyboardists deserve better than this at the prices we are made to pay for these products. Obviously im reserving final judgement on the yammy until i play it so im prepared to be impressed by it but judging on some of the stuff ive seen lately i wouldnt be surprised if its not happening. Lets see.

 

 

Ditto, I too wanted to love the SV1. Korg scored BIG with the concept of the instrument and the intuitiveness of the interface (NO MENUS), just turn the knobs like the native instruments... The Rhodes were a step up from the M3 but still not right on the money (especially the the velocity switching)... I previously defended the pianos, unfortunately they were a disappointment LIVE..

 

I hope the CP5 / CP50 or VR700 fair better as I am without a primary gig board now that I have returned the SV1. My Mark II is holding up just fine though ....

[Vintagekeys]

goldphinga curious what is your take on the Yamaha Motif ES/XS Rhodes samples?

[goldphinga]

 

goldphinga curious what is your take on the Yamaha Motif ES/XS Rhodes samples?

 

 

Id say the rhodes sounds on the XS Rhodes are some of the better/more realistic workstation samples around really. Ive always enjoyed Yamaha Rhodes sounds from my SY55 and SY85 through to the EX5 that ive just sold and the Motif range.

[Melodialworks]

 

Yamaha finally did it - stunning piano and rhodes sounds in one unit with wooden, hammer action keys! what else you may possibly want?

 

 

Well, a mod wheel, actually. For studio use, driving soft synths, this is a glaring omission.

[Vintagekeys]

So you feel they are better than the ES Rhodes, they sounded the same to me when demoed. That was my reason for not upgrading to the XS and purchasing the S90es. You know your Rhodes so I will give you that but will have to demo again to see if really an improvement...

[Melodialworks]

Is the NW Stage action found in the CP1 graded? Thanks.

[willi]

[tremens]

 

So you feel they are better than the ES Rhodes, they sounded the same to me when demoed. That was my reason for not upgrading to the XS and purchasing the S90es. You know your Rhodes so I will give you that but will have to demo again to see if really an improvement...

 

 

sample wise maybe they're not different in 98% (although there is at least new one) but thanks to new engine and awesome effects they really sounds much better. Actually so much better that I don't need other.

[tremens]

Is the NW Stage action found in the CP1 graded? Thanks.

 

This is really interesting and unclear from the specs looks like the graded hammer action is only on CP-50 (but not wooden)...Although CP-1 and CP-5 are not balanced either (from the specs)...

[Melodialworks]

This is really interesting and unclear from the specs looks like the graded hammer action is only on CP-50 (but not wooden)...Although CP-1 and CP-5 are not balanced either (from the specs)...

 

The following reply was posted elsewhere by "Athan" (a Yamaha rep):

 

"No, the NW stage is not graded. In developing this action, a number of different prototypes of the action ( some graded , some not) were developed and evaluated by a selection of pro players playing both the acoustic pianos and the electric pianos. They all felt that overall this action worked better for both the acoustics and the electrics.

 

The physics of the action in a reed or tine piano is very different than an acoustic piano. Of course , you really have to play it to decide for yourself, but the reaction to the keyboard action at NAMM was very, very positive."

 

Feedback that I have received from folks that have actually played the CP1 has been that the action is very, very good. I for one, can't wait to try out this board.

[Son of HuHefner]

Yamaha finally did it - stunning piano and rhodes sounds in one unit with wooden, hammer action keys! what else you may possibly want? CP1 is schedulled to replace my RD700GX this year. p.s. one small miss I guess - there is no simple recorder like on CP300, a scratch pad would be nice.

 

you, you Roland Rd700GX traitor, you

 

I am getting the SupNat'l kit SRX for my RD soon

[tremens]

The following reply was posted elsewhere by "Athan" (a Yamaha rep): "No, the NW stage is not graded. In developing this action, a number of different prototypes of the action ( some graded , some not) were developed and evaluated by a selection of pro players playing both the acoustic pianos and the electric pianos. They all felt that overall this action worked better for both the acoustics and the electrics. The physics of the action in a reed or tine piano is very different than an acoustic piano. Of course , you really have to play it to decide for yourself, but the reaction to the keyboard action at NAMM was very, very positive." Feedback that I have received from folks that have actually played the CP1 has been that the action is very, very good. I for one, can't wait to try out this board.

 

ok thanks for info, good catch but it is very disappointing. CP-1 and CP-5 are supposed to be stage pianos hence I'd expect piano like action. We have not graded without escapement action here? now I'm always 100% sure RD700GX will be closer to real thing...wooden keys by itself won't do the trick for me I think.

[tremens]

you, you Roland Rd700GX traitor, you I am getting the SupNat'l kit SRX for my RD soon

 

well that remains to be seen if I am traitor because something tells me RD700GX action will be still better then CP series and it's the action I am after. Regarding that kit I doubt it will be ground breaking as any other SRX cards were medicore.