Keystation 88es question

[musicdog400]

In an effort to have a lighter rig I purchased a motif es module and am thinking about the Keystation 88es. The way the patch change works, is this usable for live playing where you are often quickly switching patches in the middle of a song ? I guess I could just change them on the rack unit.

 

Thanks.

[Mourndark]

Hi there,

 

I've been doing a similar thing to you for about 18 months now. Those M-Audio controllers are fantastically light, but they are pretty useless beyond your basic MIDI functions. What I do is program my rack to minimise the number of changes I have to make during a song, which usually means setting up LOTS of zones. I have the rack within easy reach, usually on another x-stand to the side. This works pretty well once everything is set up, but I don't know how versatile the motif es is when it comes to live zones.

[j_e_f_f_g]

I have an 88ES. And I change patches a LOT during each song. I do NOT use the 88ES to change patches. It's true that you can assign the + button (on the 88ES) to advance to the next program, and the - button to go back to the previous program. So if you have your patches arranged (on your Motif sound module) in the order that you intend to play them, with no deviation in your set, then you could use the 88ES to easily change patches. But if you intend to randomly choose a patch to switch to, the 88ES involves way too many button/key presses to do that during a song. Because I use no particular song list when I gig, I employ a different order of patch changes on each gig. So I don't use the 88ES to switch patches. (I use custom software running on a small 8" touchscreen to change patches. The touchscreen sits right atop my keyboard).

 

One word of warning: I strongly advise trying the 88ES keybed before you buy. Among the many boards I've used for gigging are Roland RD300SX (my fave since I prefer a light, weighted action), Casio PX-130, Roland JV80 and JV90, Yamaha KX76, Prophet 5 and 600 and 2000, Roland A-33, Alesis QS8.2, and others. The 88ES is the worst feeling keybed among all of them. It has an extremely heavy spring-loaded feel to it that feels like it's constantly pushing back up. I felt like I had to fight to control each key press all the way through its full traversal, back to its fully released position. Plus, it has short keys, and those little black stubby things are especially easy to miss, and hard to control being so "stiff". It would have been better if they had made it a simple unweighted spring loaded keybed, rather than what feels like an extremely heavy version of that. (And made the keys longer). I used it for about 6 months but it just never grew on me and my playing was worse on it.

 

I've been trying to reduce the weight of my gigging rig for several years, and I've done lots of research on light controllers/keyboards. So allow me to give you the benefit of that research. So far, the only really light alternatives to the 88ES seem to be the Casio PX-130 (or PX-330), the Fatar Numa Nano (not the regular Numa or Nero), and the new 76 key Kurzweil SP76 II (I'm not even sure if they yet list it on their web site). Everything else is either, at minimum, 8 to 10 pounds heavier than these such as the Roland RD-300GX, or 61 keys (or less) toys such as the Edirols.

 

The Numa Nano looks really nice. It's only 22 pounds (same as the 88ES), and has (mono) aftertouch as well. The only bad part is that Fatar seems to have had trouble supplying them. If you're looking to buy one, you'll probably find one or two places in England, Germany, or France selling it. Only just recently have they _started_ to reach American distributors. I'm still considering it. If I go for it, I'll give an indepth review here. But like the 88ES, it doesn't have a really quick means to rapidly change patches at random. (But one of its footswitches can be set to advance to the next patch). I'm currently using a Casio PX-130, but again, it has no easy means to randomly switch patches during a song. So I still use my custom software/touchscreen. The Casio was my lightest option having a full 88 keys with a decent feel. It's a couple pounds heavier than the 88ES, and no better at randomly switching patches. But at least the keybed doesn't fight with me when I play it.

[zzzxtreme]

see if Yamaha KX8 is still available

[j_e_f_f_g]

I've seen the KX8 still being sold in some places, and of course there are used units around. But it's about the same weight as the RD300GX, which is a little over 10 pounds more than the Numa Nano and 88ES, and about 8 pounds more than the PX-130. Also, I don't think that the KX8 offers a really quick way to change patches -- at least not any moreso than the other units I mentioned. I've played a KX8 a little, and the keybed is definitely superior to the 88ES. But, I wouldn't recommend the KX8 for the OP's needs of light weight, and quick patch changes. If the OP wanted something around 33 pounds, I'd instead steer him toward the RD300GX. It has 8 dedicated patch buttons, to quickly change between 8 patches with one click. Plus, each patch button actually has 4 "positions" allowing access to upto 32 patches with relatively little clicking. That's what I'd recommend for him, if he doesn't want to alternately consider using a laptop running "patch changing" software, or some external device with programmable buttons to change patches. (I can't remember if the Korg Nanopad can be set to transmit program changes via its pads. I seem to remember browsing the manual, and discovering this to be an oversight in its designs. Otherwise, one of those atop a PX-130 or Numa Nano would do him well).

 

But ultimately, if he's really insistent upon a light keyboard, with quick patch changing, he'll probably end up with either a PX-130 or Numa Nano, plus use an additional device for patch changes. There's nothing out there that really satisfies both his criteria. I know, because I've been looking for the exact same thing for a couple years now.

[musicdog400]

Thanks all. That is great info. The keyboard I am replacing is my Roland RD-600, 88 weighted keys. It is a bit heavy, and my new car rear seat doesn't fold down. So I have to move it at this uncomfortable angle to get it onto the front passenger seat. My back always hurts after a gig.

 

Jeffg, thanks for the exact info I am looking for. It did not occur to me to consider the RD-300GX but now I will. Orig budget was under $500 but I could go higher if necessary. I would probably trade someone my 600 for the 300 at this point.

[j_e_f_f_g]

A new RD300GX will definitely run you more than $500. You may want to look into getting a used RD300SX. That's the previous model. It has the exact same patch button layout. What it doesn't have is aftertouch, and an extra set of piano waveforms. But you're using your Motif for sounds anyway. And if you don't care about aftertouch, then the differences are negligible. Plus, the SX is actually 1 pound lighter than the GX (32 versus 33). Both models do use a special external power supply.

[T71]

 

The Numa Nano looks really nice. It's only 22 pounds (same as the 88ES), and has (mono) aftertouch as well. The only bad part is that Fatar seems to have had trouble supplying them.

 

 

Really nice, indeed. I plan on getting one. It's supposed to be built like a tank from what folks on the Italian forums are saying. And talk about light, it weighs the same as my Prophet '08.

 

They're in stock in the US here: http://www.midi-store.com/Fatar-Studiologic-Numa-Nano-Keyboard-p-19679.html