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Has Roland let us down(Failed) again?

Thorhead

By Thorhead
in Keys, Synths & Samplers

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ChristianRock Newbie

ChristianRock

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Quit yer whining :lol:

 

It looks good in black. If I were to get a keytar, I'd get the Lucina, in black, as long as I got a good deal on it of course.

 

I think it's a win. Except for the advertising, which is horrible. But the product itself is good, it's the coolest looking keytar ever IMHO (again, in black).

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plaid_emu Newbie

plaid_emu

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Quit yer whining
:lol:

It looks good in black. If I were to get a keytar, I'd get the Lucina, in black, as long as I got a good deal on it of course.


I think it's a win. Except for the advertising, which is horrible. But the product itself is good, it's the coolest looking keytar ever IMHO (again, in black).



As long as it functions as a controller I agree 100%.

Although a keytar isn't really my style. C-Thru needs to make a similar product with the AXiS-49, then I'm game. :lol:

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carbon111 Newbie

carbon111

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WHO, would buy those things?

 

You've never been into a BestBuy before, have you? :lol:

 

It's the same kind of phenomenon that keeps the MicroKorg a best-seller at Guitar Center...now the Roland Gaia will give it a run for its money I'm sure.

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Thorhead Newbie

Thorhead

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You've never been into a BestBuy before, have you?
:lol:

It's the same kind of phenomenon that keeps the MicroKorg a best-seller at Guitar Center...now the Roland Gaia will give it a run for its money I'm sure.



Butt..... but....


NOOOOOOoooooooooooooooo! :mad:

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soundwave106 Newbie

soundwave106

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Roland, Yamaha and Korg have been letting us down for the past 25 years, seriously.



Actually, I think Korg is doing it right.

The problem with the Lucina really is the pricepoint. If you're gonna make a synth that appears to target the $200-$400 toy market, you shouldn't sell it for $600.

If Casio made a toy keytar, I'm confident it could kick the Lucina's butt. :facepalm:

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coyote-1 Newbie

coyote-1

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You guys have got to be kidding. Aren't you listening to what you're saying?

The real analog market is wide open, and probably has room for huge margins. Roland, make a new analog synth to compete with VAs and real analog synths.


There's a slew of RA and VA synths out there. It's not a wide-open market, it is CROWDED. And there's a bunch of geeky keyboardists out there saying "The Moog and the Prophet and the this and that don't have exactly the perfect mega-capabilities I want at the $250 I'm willing to spend, so Roland please add another machine to that cluster...."

I've never understood the reason why folks apparently demand that all manufacturers have entries in all areas. It's like saying Ferrari ought make a $22,000 commuter station wagon, and Kia a $200K supercar.

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ChristianRock Newbie

ChristianRock

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I've never understood the reason why folks apparently demand that all manufacturers have entries in all areas. It's like saying Ferrari ought make a $22,000 commuter station wagon, and Kia a $200K supercar.

 

I got a new term for this syndrom:

Jupiter Widows.

When Roland killed the Jupiter (that and the analog SHs, but SH widows doesn't have the same ring to it), it left a lot of widows behind, who are all still mourning :poke::wave::lol:

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AnCap Newbie

AnCap

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You guys have got to be kidding. Aren't you listening to what you're saying?


There's a slew of RA and VA synths out there.

 

 

There are basically two Real Analog Synths on the market. Moog and Dave Smith. The Moog is mono. The DSI is, well, poorly built. I would happily pay 3 grand for something that felt as least as solid as my Korg MS2000R, or had a keybed as nice as, well, my OXYGEN controller. An internal power supply would be nice too.

 

 

It's not a wide-open market, it is CROWDED. And there's a bunch of geeky keyboardists out there saying "The Moog and the Prophet and the this and that don't have exactly the perfect mega-capabilities I want at the $250 I'm willing to spend, so Roland please add another machine to that cluster...."

 

 

Obviously there are far more choices on the VA front, and that is where Roland, and everyone else is concentrating their efforts. They are actually focusing on the crowded area of the market, low end crap, and me too VAs.

 

 

I've never understood the reason why folks apparently demand that all manufacturers have entries in all areas. It's like saying Ferrari ought make a $22,000 commuter station wagon, and Kia a $200K supercar.

 

 

I think a second polyphonic real analog (ya know, with a keyboard), with all the mass production advantages a company like Roland has is not too much to ask. There are hardly too many options.

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Miket156 Newbie

Miket156

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by AnCap:


There are basically two Real Analog Synths on the market. Moog and Dave Smith. The Moog is mono. The DSI is, well, poorly built. I would happily pay 3 grand for something that felt as least as solid as my Korg MS2000R, or had a keybed as nice as, well, my OXYGEN controller. An internal power supply would be nice too.



I believe we would have to pay more than 3000 USD for a well built real analog polyphonic synth. I realize that technology has made the capability and performance of modern synths a lot more powerful, but someone has to design one, spec it, write the sw code, source reliable suppliers for analog components, get it built or build it in house, have the people to support it, provide customer service, write OS upgrades, take care of spare parts and inventory, and a lot of other things (advertising budget) that is necessary to build an RA that musicians will want. Collectively, we bitch about everything that comes out by every mfg.

Higher priced synths have a much more limited customer base. Budget KB's for consumers is where the bulk of the business is, pro musicians are a very small part of the market.

If Roland, or Yamaha felt there was a large enough market to justify making a high end RA, they would be doing it already. Korg had the Oasys, so they won't be building high price instruments any time soon, and I don't think Kurzweil will move into that market segment.

For the serious synth player, there's the MacBeth, and there are other modular systems available to satisfy KB geeks with a full wallet or large credit line.

I don't think things will change any time soon. :rolleyes:

Mike T.

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AnCap Newbie

AnCap

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I believe we would have to pay more than 3000 USD for a well built real analog polyphonic synth. I realize that technology has made the capability and performance of modern synths a lot more powerful, but someone has to design one, spec it, write the sw code, source reliable suppliers for analog components, get it built or build it in house, have the people to support it, provide customer service, write OS upgrades, take care of spare parts and inventory, and a lot of other things (advertising budget) that is necessary to build an RA that musicians will want. Collectively, we bitch about everything that comes out by every mfg.


Higher priced synths have a much more limited customer base. Budget KB's for consumers is where the bulk of the business is, pro musicians are a very small part of the market.


If Roland, or Yamaha felt there was a large enough market to justify making a high end RA, they would be doing it already. Korg had the Oasys, so they won't be building high price instruments any time soon, and I don't think Kurzweil will move into that market segment.


For the serious synth player, there's the MacBeth, and there are other modular systems available to satisfy KB geeks with a full wallet or large credit line.


I don't think things will change any time soon.
:rolleyes:

Mike T.



How much would it cost to add good knobs and a good keybed to the P'08? Seriously, $200 M Audio stuff is nicer. It seems the guts of the PE'08 cost less than $1000 to put together. From what I can tell synth engine is the easy part, and the best executed part of DSI gear. Like most other things, it is about desire and execution, not difficulty or price.

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soundwave106 Newbie

soundwave106

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How much would it cost to add good knobs and a good keybed to the P'08? Seriously, $200 M Audio stuff is nicer. It seems the guts of the PE'08 cost less than $1000 to put together. From what I can tell synth engine is the easy part, and the best executed part of DSI gear. Like most other things, it is about desire and execution, not difficulty or price.



Apparently you haven't dealt much in business; if you had, you would know that price is a huge consideration. :p

DSI's gear uses a custom run of Curtis chips done especially for them. Custom chips (also used in the Alesis Andromeda) don't come cheap. They usually have mandatory minimum quantities, as much of the cost is in the design and/or setting up the fab. So I'm sure that this is a large portion of the cost of the P'08.

Mechanicals (like potentiometers) can get very expensive very quick. Go and price them out sometime. Then compare and contrast the desire for "lots of knobs" with the desire for "cheap price". :lol: There are some pretty decent low cost options, and there are better high cost options. The difference between a $3 pot and a $10 pot gets pricey at 30 knobs (and yeah, $150 pots exist, I imagine those are overkill for mere digital scanning).

I know nothing about the DSI's keybed, but aren't pretty much all keybeds Fatars these days?

Seriously, the main way I can see a "cheap polyphonic analog" emerging is if a general purpose chip can be "configured" as an analog. The concept of a "field programmable analog array" does exist, but I do not know if a VCO / VCF / VCA could be crafted from such chips. General purpose VCOs do exist for signal processing, but it appears like general purpose VCAs and VCFs do not exist (and I am not sure if the VCOs out there now are suitable for music).

You obviously can go discrete, and someone already has done that: the Omega 8 is available from Studio Electronics for $4500.

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The Audacity Works Newbie

The Audacity Works

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Like most other things, it is about desire and execution, not difficulty or price.

You have it backwards. Like almost all things, it's about difficulty or price, not desire and execution.

 

The big three could really want to make a full-featured, polyphonic RA. They don't because we wouldn't buy enough units to make it anywhere close to profitable.

 

Everyone thinks they're a gear designer

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