is a bogner Ecstacy good for metal

[millertime]

i ordered a uberschall and it will be a few months to get but my dealer has a Ecstacy.. i was wondering if i should grab it?

i have a triaxis and 2/90 setup now and its just not enough

gain for me...should i grab the Ecstacy? thanks

[batotman]

Try the Ecstasy! I've got the Uber but really would like to try the more versatile Ecstasy!

[millertime]

i cant try it ..just buy... good for metal?

[DerekB]

 

Originally posted by millertime i cant try it ..just buy... good for metal?

 

 

Yes it is but it does not have the low end that the Uber has if that matters to you. I personally like both the 101's and the Classic better than the Uber for metal tones. How come you can't try out the Extacy that your dealer has?

 

Derek:cool:

[millertime]

 

Originally posted by DerekB Yes it is but it does not have the low end that the Uber has if that matters to you. I personally like both the 101's and the Classic better than the Uber for metal tones. How come you can't try out the Extacy that your dealer has? Derek:cool:

 

 

He,s a few hours away.. i might just get both and keep the winner.

 

thanks man!!!

[DerekB]

 

Originally posted by millertime He,s a few hours away.. i might just get both and keep the winner. thanks man!!!

 

 

If you got the funds go for it !!!!! I'd do the same as well.

 

Derek

[starsnuffer]

I love my 101B for metal, HOWEVER:

 

The XTC has a very smooth, singing gain. It does not have very much saturation at all. When you first get it, you'll probably turn the gain up way too high.

 

If you want that peavey/mesa bees in a box saturated gain, then you will hate the XTC.

 

I guess it really depends on what you define as "metal" and what kind of sounds you're going for.

 

I'll post a "test drive guide" that someone on the Bogner user group wrote up that will help you get the most from your time with the amp in the store in my next post, it's too long so I'll have to break it up.

 

 

 

-W

[starsnuffer]

OK, well, lets start with a little orientation....

 

The first thing to do is go to www.bogneramplification.com, go to the

Ecstasy section and read the manual... it sits here:

http://bogneramplification.com/EcstasyManual.htm

 

OK, so first here are some things to know... very basic.

 

-The Ecstasy has 3 accesible channels, and one extra, specially ssignable

channels.

-The 3 Ecstasy channels are:

Green - Clean

Blue - Dirty

Red - High Gain.

These channels have a LOT of range to them... they can all go down to

being almost perfectly chean and every one of them can produce a good

amount of dirt, even the green channel. The Blue channel has a HUGE

range.

-The Plexi channel can be assigned to either the blue or red channel.

When its assigned it takes the place of either of those channels, so that

only 3 channels are footswitch accessible at any time.

-The footswitch is KEY to properly testing the Ecstasy, don't test one

without it... Even if its not out on display, insist that they bring it to

you.

-The Footswitch has 7 buttons, and they appear as follow:

 

Green Boost FX Loop Blue/Red Boost

 

Green Ch. Blue Ch. Red Ch. Standby/Mute

 

All this is pretty self explanatory. Two notes... YES, the Blue and Red

channels share the same boost, and the Standby Switch is basically an

input mute, not to be confused with the real amp Standby, which is an

actual switch on the amp front.

 

 

SETTING UP THE AMP, before the test drive:

To get the most out of your Ecstasy 101B test drive, its important to

understand the amp controls BEFORE youplug in. After reading the manual

yu should have a good idea of the available functions, but its all a bit

confusing until you have some experience.

The front panel has a number of knobs, as well as a bunch of small slider

switches.

So for now set the switches as follows:

Excursion A: Set to the left, M (medium) position

Excursion B: Set to the left, M (medium) position

Presence B assign: Set to C (unassigned)

Ch 1. Pre Eq: Set to the middle, N (normal) position

Structure: Set to the high (H) position

Ch 2/3 Boost: Set to low (L) (setting this to high will bypass the

boost control on the footswitch

Plexi Mode: Set to the middle position, unassigned.

Ch 2. Pre EQ: Set to the middle, N (normal) position

Ch 3. Pre EQ: Set to the middle, N (normal) position

 

now Set the knobs as follows....

Set all the knobs to 12 o'clock, except the 3 volume knobs (one for each

channel).

 

Provided that the speaker is properly hooked up, you can now plug in (into

the H input on the 101B).

 

 

Testing the Amp:

Turn the amp on, wait a while before you switch it off standby (duh).

 

Green / Clean channel.

Steo on the green channel on the footswitch, make sure the boost is off.

OK, play a little without touching the controls to get a basic feel for

the tone. The first thing to note is the function of the Pre Eq.

controls. They're most clearly audible on the Green channel. As you

switch to B1 you notice the sound getting quite a bit brighter, B2 is

brighter still ridiculously so). Set these controls BEFORE you EQ. They

set the character of the channel. It is VERY IMPORTANT to notice that the

Pre Eq. control is more effective with the gain set low. In other words

at max gain it doesn't make too much difference.. when the amp is set to

clean its a major tone factor. You can now EQ the green channel as you

wish. Finally, check out the Boost and the resulting breakup sound.

 

Blue Channel:

This is many people's favorite channel. Start un boosted, select the

channel and bring the volume up to desired level. You should have a nice,

lower gain drive sound. Test the Pre EQ function here. On the dirty

channel these functions are especially important since the Blue and Red

channels share EQ, so the Pre EQ switches can be used to differentiate

between them. Now slowly bring up the gain up to around 3 o clock and

engage the boost. The gain level goes up to about a heavy rhytam sound.

 

Red Channel:

By now you know what to do. Hear the difference the Pre Eq. makes before

you turn up the gain. The Pre EQ will become less effective as the gain

knob approaches 10, be aware of that. With the gain boosted you should be

up to high saturation.... a lot of gain, only a bit less then the super

gain of the Uber. One thing to note here is that this amp reacts VERY

well to your guitar's volume knob. It cleans up AMAZINGLY well.

 

OK, now note the Structure switch... So far its been on H for 'high', you

can switch it to low, which will cut the gain level of the Blue and Red

channels. Test it out, but you'll probably keep it on high.

 

PLEXI mode.

OK, time to test the Plexi mode, you can assign it to either the blue or

red channel. Lets try Blue. Switch to the Blue channel first. Note the

volume and gain level with the current settings. Now flip the Plexi

switch left to assign it to the blue channel. Immediately you should hear

a major volume/gain drop. Almost like a clean channel. The thing to note

here is that this is a very low gain channel when it comes to the

preamp... even if the gain is set to Max. note that the boost footswitch

does NOT work with the Plexi assigned to a channel. Turn the volume knob

up... you should note an increase in fattness and gain, but it could get

loud... Speaking of which, its a good time to try something else.

 

Testing the volume reduction:

OK, so we're at a good point to really hear the effect of the power

reduction features. IMHO these are best experienced with the Plexi

channel. Turn the amp off, and take a peek at the rear panel (I know this

can be tough in a store, consult a diagram of the rear panel so that you

can just reach around with your hand). Set the amp to full power, and

pentode (New). If there is a Class A/AB switch, set it to AB. Power up

the amp again. You're on the Plexi channel now, set the gain around 2

o'clock, turn the channel's volume down to 0 and slowly turn up. Turn to

a loud, but sensible in-store volume. Note the tone and the amount of

breakup you get. Also note how far you were able to turn the volume knob

without getting too loud. Results may vary based on the guitar used, but

my guess is that you get up to around 3 on the volume knob, and that the

tone is pretty much clean with maybe just a little dirt. Shut down the

amp again. Set it to half power (when you do this you also need to turn

the impedence selector down to HALF the rating of the cab, so if it was

set to 16ohm before, go down to 8). Also set the New/Old switch to old.

If there is a Class A/AB switch, leave it on AB for now. The amp is now

in about 30watt mode. Power back up. Turn the volume knob back to zero

and turn slowly up to roughly the same actual volume level yu had before.

Note the tone at this point. My guess is that the volume knob is now

approaching about 5, and that you're hearing an even fuller and possibly

a slightly overdriven tone. What you've just experienced here is the

power reduction from 100 down to 30 wats. Its not a UGE differenc in

volume (nothing like 3 fold), but you should start to notice that at 30

watts now you're actually pushing this amp a bit and some of the headroom

should be gone.

If the amp has a Class A/AB switch, turn it off again. Flip the switch to

Class A and power back up. Same procedure as before, back to 0 on the

volume knob... turn up slowly, up to the same volume level as before. My

guess is that now you're able o turn up to as high as 7-8 on the volume

knob. Also the tone is definitely overdriven and you're getting power

tube compression... Some gorgeous, blooming, feedback may creep up as

well. Yes, the amp is still ver loud (7 watts is a lot of powe, contrary

to what most people think). But the key is comparison here. In 100 watt

mode this same setting/volume could only give you a high headroom clean.

At 7watts its fat, creamy natural overdrive.

(note: if the amp doesn't have the Class A/AB switch, you can sort of

estimate what a difference it would make by realizing that switching to it

from the 30watt setting would have a similar further difference as

switching from 100 to 30 did, maybe slightly more).

 

 

 

 

-W

[starsnuffer]

The rest of the test.

Leave the amp in the lowest power setting you were able to get (7watts if

you have the Class A, 30 otherwise), and go check out the other channels.

Disengage the Plexi mode and hear the blue channel now (note, turn the

volume back DOWN before turing off the plexi mode, the extra gain will

result in a big volume punch otherwise). One thing to note is that on the

low power settings, the Green channel at low gain can turn up to 5-6

outinely... you may like the clean tone of the amp a lot better now.

Time to mess with the power amp controls a little bit. Basically your

Pre-EQ switches and your EQ, gain and channels are all preamp functions.

The amp has two basic power amp controls... Presence and Excursion. In

simplest terms these are your treble and bass poweramp controls. For now

you're using the 'A' set of these controls (there are 2 sets of them on

the 101B, we'll get to that in a second). The presence control on the

101B is very important. Many people note that the amp sounds very dark

unless you turn the presence up pretty high. Play with the whole range of

the dial. Now the Excursion control. This pretty much controls the

'boomyness' of the bass... It can be set to tight, loose or medium.

You've been testing it on medium so far. Go to a higher gain setting on

the Blue or Red channel. Play a few power chords. Now set the Excursion

to tight... A lot of the low end drops out, and becomes very tight

feeling. You can still dial in a lot of preamp bass, but overall its not

too overwhelming. Now go to the Loose excursion setting. The diffrence

should be HUGE. Now you have a ton of big, not very focused low end. Its

a whole extra diension of control with tis amp. I find the medium setting

to be most useful.

OK, now lets talk about the 'B' set of controls. Let me first note that

this feature is unique to the 101B, the Classic only has a single

Excursion and Presence control. The 101B has a second set that can be

assigned to either the Green or Red channel, thru the use of the assign

switch (originally set to C or unassigned). Basically hving this second

set of preamp controls can allow you to further differentiate between the

Blue and Red channels. You can for example make the Blue channel be

fairly tight in the low end and have a lot of high end presence, while

setting the red to be very dark (low presence) and have a HUGE low end

(loose excursion). OR you could use this control to shape the clean

(green channel) and still not touch your high gain channels. Its a nice

extra feature. Too bad it was eliminated when streamlining the upgraded

Classic design.

 

So now that you know the amp, and have tweaked it a little during the test

drive, go back and play each of the channels, try the boosts and play with

all the controls (which you now hopefully understand).

One thing thats remarkable about the cstasy is that once you get to know

it,its a very easy to use amp. The fact that Volume and gain controls for

every channel light up when the channel is in use lets you easily orient

yourself, even on a dark stage... You probably won't find yourself messing

with the switches too much on an everyday basis, unless it is to reset the

amp for a different purpose. This amp can really be a lot of different

things... Sayyou need an amp to cover a variety of cleaner sounds you can

set it to be Green, Blue and Plexi, and have 2 different sounding cleanish

channels and the one (blue) overdrive channel. Or you can run the amp as

a high gain monster in the regular Green, Blue, Red setup with all the

gain knobs turned up. Its very versatile, and once you set it for a

particular use you can still footswitch between different features and

quickly reset it to do something completely different.

 

Yeh, I know this was a LONG 'guide', but it should give you an idea of how

to test this amp. When trying the Ecstasy for the first time, you can

definitely get some very disappointing tones if you don'g know what you're

doing. For example, if you had the Structure control set on Low and the

excursion knob on Loose, you'd think this was a fairly gutless amp with an

unfocused low end... You'd spend your time intuitively EQing the amp to

compensate and most likely wouldn't like it. But once you uderstand its

features you can quickly set it to sounds you want.

Enjoy!

 

-W

[batotman]

I got to try a Shiva yesterday. I foolishly thought it would be similar to an Uber but I was wrong. More like a hot rodded JCM800 to my ears. Not bad but not for me.

 

 

Nice post, W!

[xSPARKYx]

I had an XTC Classic when I joined the band I'm in now ( heavy covers) and I found it did not have enough gain / too much mids for this type of music. I got a Powerball, which suited the music better. But I have recently switched to an Uberschall with much success. I still miss the XTC Classic and wish I had tried a boost and / or an EQ in the loop with it because it is an incredible amp!!!

[starsnuffer]

 

Originally posted by xSPARKYx I had an XTC Classic when I joined the band I'm in now ( heavy covers) and I found it did not have enough gain / too much mids for this type of music. I got a Powerball, which suited the music better. But I have recently switched to an Uberschall with much success. I still miss the XTC Classic and wish I had tried a boost and / or an EQ in the loop with it because it is an incredible amp!!!

 

 

I hear ya. Personally, I love my XTC, but my bandmates seem to be plagued with the Mesa curse and insist on me using a recto, which I really don't like but it fits.

 

I actually like the fact that my guitar still sounds like a guitar through the XTC, and every nuance of the sound gets through no matter how much gain I use. The sustain. . . it's amazing. I use a keeley modded TS9 as a boost to take stuff over the top or tighten up the bottom end and its tone heaven.

 

The thing I really like is the dynamic response. You'll hear people tell you how it cleans up so well with the volume knob. . . screw that, just by changing how you attack the strings you can get a plethora of tones right there at your fingertips without touching a knob, button, or footswitch. I miss that with the mesa.

 

-W

[xSPARKYx]

Absolutely!!! Thats why I like the Uber over the Powerball...its all about the touch response!!!

[Les-Zombie]

i have a xtc and i play metal, and it works good with a clean boost also.

[bikerdude2]

IMHO, it's Killer for Metal! If your the type of guy who associates Metal by Mesa Recto type tones, then the Uber is probably a better amp. Me? The XTC is the end all amp for me. Bands I cover include Black Sabbath, Ozzy, Iron Maiden, right thru newer stuff like Chevelle and Godsmack. It handles it all with smooth gain and tone for days!

[millertime]

i wanted to thank you all for the guidance..im normally a rack guy but im getting into heads.. i bought both the XTC and Uber..i'll get the XTC first, maybe tomorrow..i'll let you know what i think of it.

...also than you starsnuffer for all the info...

[Sordid1]

I think it would make a great metal amp but you said the triaxis2:90 didn't have enough gain for you and if memory serves (I haven't played a triaxis in eons) it has more gain than the XTC so that may be an issue. I like all the Bogner stuff I have played but I think I would take the XTC over the Uber for sure because it is a very versitile setup and does have some great heavy tones going on. If I remember right Steve Vai's Alien Love secrets was recorded with one and that's some good heavy tone on there.

[millertime]

Originally posted by bikerdude2 IMHO, it's Killer for Metal! If your the type of guy who associates Metal by Mesa Recto type tones, then the Uber is probably a better amp. Me? The XTC is the end all amp for me. Bands I cover include Black Sabbath, Ozzy, Iron Maiden, right thru newer stuff like Chevelle and Godsmack. It handles it all with smooth gain and tone for days!

 

yeah, thats the tone i like. im not into death metal or anything.

i still think i will love the uber ..i loved the clips on the site...i just hope my cab works out. its a custom birch wood with vintage 30's in it..open or closed back

[spoonie g]

Hmm. I don't think so. The low-end is way too foggy, at least on the 101b I owned. The Classic may be better?

[millertime]

Originally posted by Sordid1

I think it would make a great metal amp but you said the triaxis2:90 didn't have enough gain for you and if memory serves (I haven't played a triaxis in eons) it has more gain than the XTC so that may be an issue. I like all the Bogner stuff I have played but I think I would take the XTC over the Uber for sure because it is a very versitile setup and does have some great heavy tones going on. If I remember right Steve Vai's Alien Love secrets was recorded with one and that's some good heavy tone on there. [/quote

 

i think the el34 power section will work better for me.. the tri and 2/90 were too round and compressed for my taste

[millertime]

 

Originally posted by spoonie g Hmm. I don't think so. The low-end is way too foggy, at least on the 101b I owned. The Classic may be better?

 

 

Are you referring to my cab?

[Sordid1]

Originally posted by millertime Originally posted by Sordid1 I think it would make a great metal amp but you said the triaxis2:90 didn't have enough gain for you and if memory serves (I haven't played a triaxis in eons) it has more gain than the XTC so that may be an issue. I like all the Bogner stuff I have played but I think I would take the XTC over the Uber for sure because it is a very versitile setup and does have some great heavy tones going on. If I remember right Steve Vai's Alien Love secrets was recorded with one and that's some good heavy tone on there. [/quote i think the el34 power section will work better for me.. the tri and 2/90 were too round and compressed for my taste   If you don't want too round than el34s should be better for you. The one I played was the 101B and I think I would like the 6l6gc version better since I nomally do but I dont' think a Bogner is anywhere in my future at least not for a long time.

[spoonie g]

 

Originally posted by millertime Are you referring to my cab?

 

 

No....? I used a Bogner 4x12 w/ v-30's mine. I never got into the amp. It's like a 2203 marshall with it's nuts cut off and a pink boa and glitter sprinkled on it to distract you from that fact. But, I dunno. The classic may be great. As far as metal, an 800 with a boost would be vastly superior IMHO.

[Les-Zombie]

I have e34L's in my xtc right now and it sounds good.

I had a jcm 800 and I boosted it but I like my splawn and my xtc way better.

[amiller]

 

Originally posted by millertime i ordered a uberschall and it will be a few months to get but my dealer has a Ecstacy.. i was wondering if i should grab it? i have a triaxis and 2/90 setup now and its just not enough gain for me...should i grab the Ecstacy? thanks

 

 

I use my XTC for everything.

 

By the way, cool display name "millertime.":D