Kurzweill PC 361 (sell it or throw it in the river!)

[Franz Schiller]

Won't work at all with PC3. With PC3K, perhaps it would.

 

 

I'm sorry, that's what I meant to say...that's what I get for posting after knocking a few back.

[EricM]

I guess it is possible, but my understanding is that the PC3K was released predominantly for the K2xxx market whose 2600's were getting long in the tooth. Broadway productions, Las Vegas Shows, etc. needed a replacement and they could not wait for the promised new K series devices. Kurz created the PC3 (K) to play back these K series samples. This way they could take the sounds and programs that they already had, on their 2600's, and play them back on the PC3K. I don't know if there is a sample editor or not, but I'm sure you could find out at sonikmatter.com. Rick

 

 

That is kind of what will make the PC3K just f'ing awesome. You have almost two decades worth of K-Series samples to select from that are just floating around the internet.

 

It's just too bad Kurzweil decided not to put at least the small ribbon onto the PC3. Or at least more room for The Super Ribbon to be placed on.

[NuSkoolTone]

I tried to get onto the Kurzweil train, I really did. Ordered the PC3LE, thinking "O.K., Peter Gabriel uses these damn things. They must be good". What I failed to realize at the time was that they virtually kidnapped a professional Kurzweil programmer for their tour. Are the pianos and orchestral sounds more realistic than those of other ROMplers? Perhaps. Do they sit in my mix as well? Nope. And the sounds that were there did not make me want to go to school on the VAST architecture. Went to the Motif XS7 and did not look back.

 

 

+1 I tried to like teh Kurz too. I was seriously disappointed and not impressed with the sound AT ALL. I got an XS7 too, and for what I do it's the business HANDS DOWN. Plus, How anyone can call the XS interface hard to use compared to the Kurz interface from 1992 is beyond me!

[Thorhead]

+1 I tried to like teh Kurz too. I was seriously disappointed and not impressed with the sound AT ALL. I got an XS7 too, and for what I do it's the business HANDS DOWN. Plus, How anyone can call the XS interface hard to use compared to the Kurz interface from 1992 is beyond me!

 

 

Yes, the fact is. You have to know how to play to appreciate kurzweil. There are no lame 1 button super lame "wonder" programs....

[McHale]

Yes, the fact is. You have to know how to play to appreciate kurzweil. There are no lame 1 button super lame "wonder" programs....

 

 

So the fact that more pros prefer and use synths OTHER than Kurzweil means none of them can play.

 

OK. Right.

[NuSkoolTone]

Yes, the fact is. You have to know how to play to appreciate kurzweil. There are no lame 1 button super lame "wonder" programs....

Right because since I don't like your piece of {censored} keyboard (IMO) I can't play. You're a dick. Being that Kurzweil people are a LOT like apple people, I bet you think the new iPhone is flawless too!

Perhaps you should rephrase it as the Kurzweil only sounds good in the hands of those can play their ass off. Because it only sounds good in the demos when the guy is seriously riffing. Ya know what? Betcha it'd sound just as great on a motif classic from um......2001. In some cases maybe even better. A great guitar player can make even the crappiest guitar sound good. I can play, but do I really want to work that hard just to make the board sound decent? NO, I don't! I do a lot of covers, and sometimes the parts aren't that interesting to let me "spruce up" the dull lifeless sound without overplaying. If I do something as simple as holding down a CHORD on a piano, I want it to sound GOOD. On the Kurz, there's no resonance to the sound and a cheesy decay. It's easy to get the attack right in a rompler! Notice the demos are all zippy fast playing? Don't be fooled. It's to distract you from the crappy soundset dating largely back to the 1990's. It's now 2010. That's nearly 20 years ago. Kurzweil, UPDATE your soundset!

Seriously, what's there to appreciate? The Pianos and EP's sound like ASS. The VA1 is cool in concept but there isn't much of an interface to do anything with it (Unless you really just DIG sliders, and ONLY sliders). Plus, I've never heard anything impressive from it. There's no sampling, the interface is garbage IMO , no vocoder (Which if you do modern covers, is in a LOT of songs these days). The "Horns" sound like synth Brass (hmmm, 1990 anyone?). KB3 Mode it pretty cool. It puts it in between some of the better romplers and the clonewheels. The Strings? Well yeah they're pretty awesome. But that's the ONLY redeeming quality to the synth? Come on! And then once you consider the price...

[Thorhead]

Right because since I don't like your piece of {censored} keyboard (IMO) I can't play. You're a dick. Being that Kurzweil people are a LOT like apple people, I bet you think the new iPhone is flawless too! Perhaps you should rephrase it as the Kurzweil only sounds good in the hands of those can play their ass off. Because it only sounds good in the demos when the guy is seriously riffing. Ya know what? Betcha it'd sound just as great on a motif classic from um......2001. In some cases maybe even better. A great guitar player can make even the crappiest guitar sound good. I can play, but do I really want to work that hard just to make the board sound decent? NO, I don't! I do a lot of covers, and sometimes the parts aren't that interesting to let me "spruce up" the dull lifeless sound without overplaying. If I do something as simple as holding down a CHORD on a piano, I want it to sound GOOD. On the Kurz, there's no resonance to the sound and a cheesy decay. It's easy to get the attack right in a rompler! Notice the demos are all zippy fast playing? Don't be fooled. It's to distract you from the crappy soundset dating largely back to the 1990's. It's now 2010. That's nearly 20 years ago. Kurzweil, UPDATE your soundset! Seriously, what's there to appreciate? The Pianos and EP's sound like ASS. The VA1 is cool in concept but there isn't much of an interface to do anything with it (Unless you really just DIG sliders, and ONLY sliders). Plus, I've never heard anything impressive from it. There's no sampling, the interface is garbage IMO , no vocoder (Which if you do modern covers, is in a LOT of songs these days). The "Horns" sound like synth Brass (hmmm, 1990 anyone?). KB3 Mode it pretty cool. It puts it in between some of the better romplers and the clonewheels. The Strings? Well yeah they're pretty awesome. But that's the ONLY redeeming quality to the synth? Come on! And then once you consider the price...

I agree with you on the brass, but everything else on that post is just pure failure. Kurzweil piano sound is certainly right up there! Fact is all rompler pianos kinda suck. Kurz has its own sound, but it it way more playable than say roland where the sample change point isnt just obvious, its OBVIOUS! (plus the sample sounds like some super crappy "try to please everyone, no character" piano on rolands).

I find it funny that people bitch about old samples of the kurzweil, that they had to use due to bankruptcy issues, but find nothing wrong with roland constantly using the same samples from probably 1970's that still sound like crap. At least kurzweil gives you all the newest expansion PLUS new sounds on their newest products. Instead of making a new board with nothing new and then selling over the same old samples AGAIN.

/RANT.

Also kurzweil is the CHEAPEST workstation in europe. It costs way less than motif/m3/fanG, so the price argument again holds no water at all.

Now I agree motif is pretty cool, but kurzweil is way better synth.

MOTIF = great sampler/workstation
PC3 = great synth.

Also the areas of samples where they are strong are different. Yes, Kurz keyboard instruments rock. All except harpsichord. And last time I checked, yamaha aint even got no harpsichord, so there!

[Thorhead]

So the fact that more pros prefer and use synths OTHER than Kurzweil means none of them can play. OK. Right.

 

 

I meant that kurz is not a synth where you press one button and the earth explodes.... I think this in reality this is mostly the habit of korg, and the post wasnt to be taken too seriously.

[b3keys]

Just give me the Kurz if you don't want it!

[NuSkoolTone]

I agree with you on the brass, but everything else on that post is just pure failure. Kurzweil piano sound is certainly right up there! Fact is all rompler pianos kinda suck. Kurz has its own sound, but it it way more playable than say roland where the sample change point isnt just obvious, its OBVIOUS! (plus the sample sounds like some super crappy "try to please everyone, no character" piano on rolands). I find it funny that people bitch about old samples of the kurzweil, that they had to use due to bankruptcy issues, but find nothing wrong with roland constantly using the same samples from probably 1970's that still sound like crap. At least kurzweil gives you all the newest expansion PLUS new sounds on their newest products. Instead of making a new board with nothing new and then selling over the same old samples AGAIN. /RANT. Also kurzweil is the CHEAPEST workstation in europe. It costs way less than motif/m3/fanG, so the price argument again holds no water at all. Now I agree motif is pretty cool, but kurzweil is way better synth. MOTIF = great sampler/workstation PC3 = great synth. Also the areas of samples where they are strong are different. Yes, Kurz keyboard instruments rock. All except harpsichord. And last time I checked, yamaha aint even got no harpsichord, so there!

I'm not a fan of Roland either Rompler wise. JV is alive and well though renamed a few times. The Fantom G was rather disappointing to me as well.

Interesting on the prices in Europe. Here in the US the Kurz was much more expensive when I was workstation shopping a little over a year ago.

btw, you can KEEP your Harpsichord LOL

Though If I REALLY MUST have one I can load up to 1GB (Recently discovered as 2GB with the right memory) worth of Harpsichords and whatever else I want

That said, I think the Pianos, EPs, Clavs are pretty killer on the Motif.

I mean Piano is REALLY tough, because there's ALWAYS something you can want for. I prefer mine a little on the bright (but not thin or tinny) and aggressive side which is why I'm not a fan of the ones on the Kurz and prefer the XS. When I want mellow I've got the S700 which has a nice midrange bark to it. I also have the power and Jazz Grands from the original Motif. This is where the sampling is nice to have.

The Organs are certainly good, but the gritty ones miss the mark. This is where the distortion effect in the Motif could use some improvement across the board. I actually prefer my M50 for this based on what I have. If I could justify one, I long for a nice clonewheel! VA too for that matter. Regardless I still want an Omega 8 CODE by SE.

Sorry, fell OT there .

[ChristianRock]

I say we take the guy that can't get a good sound out of his Kurz and throw him in the river instead.

[Franz Schiller]

Right because since I don't like your piece of {censored} keyboard (IMO) I can't play. You're a dick.

 

 

Alright, you guys gotta chill the F out. Seriously, take it easy.

 

I can't believe I actually have to say this, but you're basically arguing about which is better, chocolate or vanilla. Which is better Picasso or Matisse, Beatles or Stones...really, get with it. It's a matter of taste. THis is so painfully obvious, it's shocking.

 

I love Kurzweil, but I realize that not everybody is going to love Kurzweil. Some people will love Yamahas. They're not awful people just different.

 

Neither the PC3 nor the Motif is a Piece of {censored}. They're just different.

 

Now, get back in the sandbox and play with Barbies.

[McHale]

which is better, chocolate or vanilla. Which is better Picasso or Matisse, Beatles or Stones...

 

 

1. Chocolate

 

2. Picasso (but it was a tough call as I dislike them both almost equally)

 

3. Beatles

 

Did I win?

[Stingray5]

Right because since I don't like your piece of {censored} keyboard (IMO) I can't play. You're a dick. Being that Kurzweil people are a LOT like apple people, I bet you think the new iPhone is flawless too! Perhaps you should rephrase it as the Kurzweil only sounds good in the hands of those can play their ass off. Because it only sounds good in the demos when the guy is seriously riffing. Ya know what? Betcha it'd sound just as great on a motif classic from um......2001. In some cases maybe even better. A great guitar player can make even the crappiest guitar sound good. I can play, but do I really want to work that hard just to make the board sound decent? NO, I don't! I do a lot of covers, and sometimes the parts aren't that interesting to let me "spruce up" the dull lifeless sound without overplaying. If I do something as simple as holding down a CHORD on a piano, I want it to sound GOOD. On the Kurz, there's no resonance to the sound and a cheesy decay. It's easy to get the attack right in a rompler! Notice the demos are all zippy fast playing? Don't be fooled. It's to distract you from the crappy soundset dating largely back to the 1990's. It's now 2010. That's nearly 20 years ago. Kurzweil, UPDATE your soundset! Seriously, what's there to appreciate? The Pianos and EP's sound like ASS. The VA1 is cool in concept but there isn't much of an interface to do anything with it (Unless you really just DIG sliders, and ONLY sliders). Plus, I've never heard anything impressive from it. There's no sampling, the interface is garbage IMO , no vocoder (Which if you do modern covers, is in a LOT of songs these days). The "Horns" sound like synth Brass (hmmm, 1990 anyone?). KB3 Mode it pretty cool. It puts it in between some of the better romplers and the clonewheels. The Strings? Well yeah they're pretty awesome. But that's the ONLY redeeming quality to the synth? Come on! And then once you consider the price...

Best discription so far of the piano. I think he is about ready to sell it!!

[poserp]

And then once you consider the price...

 

 

You can routinely find the PC361 for under $1800 usd on ebay, which is a steal IMO. Maybe that's expensive? Last time I checked, this is in line with Motif XS6 and Fantom G6 prices on ebay as well.

[Thorhead]

Best discription so far of the piano. I think he is about ready to sell it!!

 

 

Well I am about to post a sample here to prove you wrong....

 

I have one broken cable though and it causes distortion so see if it happens.

 

Anyway, you have to go software if you want better, cause motif has a sound with same faults, its just a different sample.

 

All hardware pianos are on equal line of suckiness, but roland takes the cake on the suckiest piano. ((I am not giving it to korg, cause korg piano is IMO not meant for classic piano, but for dance type stuff).

[morten'J]

To each their own I guess, but I strongly disagree (_especially_ where EPs are concerned), even when holding chords for long periods of time. There are a gazillion ways to spice up the the piano in VAST if you don't like the stock sound, Mike Warren over at Sonikmatter recently uploaded a great piano Program demonstrating some of the stuff you can do. That's why God gave us the BCR2000 and other knob/fader boxes. Impressive is subjective, but I've personally been quite impressed with what the PC3 can do when paired up with a good controller. YouTube has several great demos of VA-1 sounds, perhaps those aren't to your liking. Like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A09m7NYMCLk and this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8a9FZM3lhw You can't do this on any of the other workstations mentioned: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seieOA7MVtA Or this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50JKou92sYQ They might have a few emulations of specific synths, but if you want to roll your own you're looking at a Nord Modular, a real modular, or software. Actually, that's mostly AutoTune. You can routinely find the PC361 for under $1800 usd on ebay, which is a steal IMO. Maybe that's expensive? Last time I checked, this is in line with Motif XS6 and Fantom G6 prices on ebay as well.

 

 

Yep I buying a PC361 for use as VA1 mostly very cheap ,the is alot sounds here for pc3 http://www.cunka.com/forum//index.php?topic=428.0 and new OS and new Romboard with samples on the way

[EricM]

Neither the PC3 nor the Motif is a Piece of {censored}. They're just different.

 

 

Quote of the day. It really comes down to how you approach your board. If someone wants just easy to access excellent bread & butter sounds then the Motif XS is probably the board for them. It's great for people who just aren't that into synthesis.

 

Kurzweil on the other hand is just a monster synthesizer. I have always disliked dumping the K Series or PC3 in with other Rompler workstations because it just isn't the same. The Motifs sound design capabilities are pretty lame in comparison, hell it's pretty lame even in comparison to the Fantom X or G.

 

Either way they all sound good. Anyone who says one sounds like {censored} over the other is just being hyperbolic. They are all fine machines. People should stick with what they are comfortable with.

[EricM]

Yep I buying a PC361 for use as VA1 mostly very cheap ,the is alot sounds here for pc3 http://www.cunka.com/forum//index.php?topic=428.0 and new OS and new Romboard with samples on the way

 

 

That's why I want to get it, primarily for the VA-1. For live situations it would help ease the workload of my Virus TI.

Not to mention the VA-1 oscillators sound better than Access' old basic VA oscillators. The two in tandem would be pretty awesome.

[CfNorENa]

It's great for people who just aren't that into synthesis.

 

 

Friendly amendment: It's great for people who don't need their ROMpler to do deep synthesis. [edit: but I'm guessing the Motif has pretty serious sound sculpting capabilities]

 

I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one on here who enjoys sound programming AND using a ROMpler -- different machines for different applications.

[Thorhead]

That's why I want to get it, primarily for the VA-1. For live situations it would help ease the workload of my Virus TI. Not to mention the VA-1 oscillators sound better than Access' old basic VA oscillators. The two in tandem would be pretty awesome.

 

 

I got to admit about the PC3 though.

 

The synth preset except like 2, totally suck, and are not very innovative.

 

Seriously, it would be like 10000 times more popular board if there was a good synth sound bank. They should really use all of the 8 sliders for all sounds (Cant really understand how low number like 8 is too many control sources).

 

That being said, you can make amazing synth sounds with it, if you got the time.

 

 

And maybe the new update will fix this. Kurzweil is sadly so small company that they have to really prioritize what to do.

[morten'J]

That's why I want to get it, primarily for the VA-1. For live situations it would help ease the workload of my Virus TI. Not to mention the VA-1 oscillators sound better than Access' old basic VA oscillators. The two in tandem would be pretty awesome.

 

Yes

I played the prototype back in 2004 and had a fansite for it ,and love it but can not wait loger for VA-1 so it will be PC361 the is that BCR2000 and with Barb's and alot other VA1 sounds.

That is my plan PC361 and Virus TI on one stand

[morten'J]

I got to admit about the PC3 though. The synth preset except like 2, totally suck, and are not very innovative. Seriously, it would be like 10000 times more popular board if there was a good synth sound bank. They should really use all of the 8 sliders for all sounds (Cant really understand how low number like 8 is too many control sources). That being said, you can make amazing synth sounds with it, if you got the time. And maybe the new update will fix this. Kurzweil is sadly so small company that they have to really prioritize what to do.

 

 

It was Barb's video's that make me buy a PC361 and now Pschelfh also make synthsounds can't wait to try out

[Thorhead]

Yes I played the prototype back in 2004 and had a fansite for it ,and love it but can not wait loger for VA-1 so it will be PC361 the is that BCR2000 and with Barb's and alot other VA1 sounds. That is my plan PC361 and Virus TI on one stand

 

 

The plan sounds good....

 

Add in a blofeld and the synth department starts to be quiet full...

[EricM]

I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one on here who enjoys sound programming AND using a ROMpler -- different machines for different applications.

 

 

Fair enough.