Virus B.Is it good ?

[synth_lover]

Hey guys. I'm thinking about buying a used Virus (desktop) and I found an older one (Virus B) for $500. However, I'm still thinking about the newer one (TI) too and dont know if it's worth the price difference -about $700. I'm sure the TI has a whole lotta extra things plus maybe double or tripple the voices if I'm correct. Again, I'm no pro and would probably never put a synth to its full use, but who wouldn't want all the extras? So, I don't know. How is the Virus B and what are the main advantages of the Ti over the B ? Also, is $ 500 fair for it and what's a good price for a used TI ? Thanks.

[Gaul]

I never owned nor played it, but I made comprehensive research on VA's to come to conclusion that if ever I will be able to have trio ROMpler, Sampler and VA, the latest will be Virus B. When it comes to ratio price/performance, it is the best offer. And I will have it one day. Effect section is powerful beyond anything from that time and long time beyond.

Of course, you should consider testimonies of real owners before buying it.

[Strenge]

I recently bought a Kb (keyboard version if it isn't obvious ) and a hard case for $610...in retrospect the best part of that deal is the fact that the keybed is the best I've ever played. So you may want to consider the keys version.

 

That aside, I was heavily weighing the different virus desktop versions and the blofeld too. For live use I needed something to replace a controller/laptop rig. I ended up thinking that the main difference (by many accounts) between the TI and the older units was the "Total Integration"--and I have softsynths for studio use so I judged it not worth the extra price. (I realize there are other improvements, polyphony, more fx, but I think at the core they are pretty similar to the older ones--some people even prefer the older sound.)

 

At the time of purchase, I figured having all the knobs there wouldn't matter to me, and so didn't consider that in my decision. I use the crap out of them, they are awesome.

 

Besides price, I'd consider how you are going to use it mostly I suppose. For me, I needed it for performance so TI was not a need. If you are going to use it with a sequencer in a studio I'd strongly consider the TI virus or snow, as you that would be very very convenient compared to a non-usb-integrated synth. Nova usually has a decent deal on either of those, and a few months back the full TI unit was 11-1200 on ebay for a like new/returnable unit from reputable sellers.

[mildbill]

 

....If you are going to use it with a sequencer in a studio I'd strongly consider the TI virus or snow, as you that would be very very convenient compared to a non-usb-integrated synth....

 

 

 

 

^^^^This.

 

 

The B is a fine unit, and that's a great price for it.

 

The TI has a ton of extra features, you can check the comparison charts on the Access site for details. But, if you sequence with software, the integration with DAW's is something to really consider.

If you can swing it financially, the TI is really worth the extra money.

[zoink]

I've owned a Virus B desktop synth since it debuted, and I still think it's an amazing synth. It's a gratifying synth to play and program, and logically laid out. It has an edgy and aggressive sound (every bit as good as a Virus C, to my ears), but it also does nice pads and leads. For me, it's the perfect VA complement to the Radias, Q, and JP8080.

 

Another thing I like about Access is the build quality of their synths. Once you put your hands on one you can feel how solid the chassis and pots are. I've never had a problem with mine.

 

I've always had the impression of Access as a company -- mainly through their support of their own products, frequent OS upgrades, new patch sets, etc. -- that they really care about their users.

[angstwulf]

Indigo 1 user here.

 

It's a tank. Top shelf build quality although the keybed on the 61 key verision and the Indigo 2 is better.

 

Regarding the TI: it doesn't "improve" the Virus sound, it adds different types of synthesis and integration with the computer, of course. If the basic Virus sound is what you want then the B series will do the job.

 

Damned deep synth as well. I can't say that I've learned every possible trick on it yet and that's after five years of ownership.

[synth_lover]

Thanks a million guys. I appreciate it. Like I said I just want the Virus for its sounds. No studio or nothing. Just simple home use. But I'm new to all this stuff and I don't know what I could be missing out on if I do end getting the Virus B and not the TI. So the B model cannot be used with a PC ? Can it not be used with FL Studio ? One other Virus I've been considering is the Snow but I dont understand the difference between it and the Ti desktop. What's the difference between the two? I see the TI is double the price and for a while I thought it had thousands more presets but I'm not sure. The Snow also has a lot less knobs. So, what's the difference ? Thanks again.

[keybdwizrd]

Shortly after the TI came out, I was VERY interested in it, but not sure if I wanted to spend that much money. I came across a used Indigo (Virus B with a keyboard) in a local music store, and bought it for $800. After six months, I was sold on the Virus sounds and concept, so I sold the Indigo (for $800) and bought a TI Polar.

 

A major advantage with the TI vs earlier models is only noticeable when doing multi-part sequencing or layering multiple patches across the keyboard. The TI allows each patch to retain ALL of its effects when in multi or layer mode - it is truly like having 16 synths and 16 complete multi-effects units inside a single box. This means that when using patches in multi or sequencer mode they all sound EXACTLY like they do in single mode. If, however, you're just going to play one sound at a time, this mega feature of the TI will be of no use to you.

 

Many of the factory patches from the Virus A, B, and C models are in the massive TI ROM library. They sound exactly the same (to me, at least). As has been said, the TI adds different synthesis types that allow it to make sounds that the earlier models cannot.

 

The TI also offers virtually complete computer integration with its TI Virus Control software, assuming you're using a compatible DAW and own a computer that isn't too finicky. YES, the earlier models can work with computers the way that most other synths do, for MIDI sequencing work and actually recording the sounds made by the thing.

 

My advice would be to buy the Virus B. If you really love it, sell it and invest in a TI. AFAIK no one ever has trouble selling a used Virus at a reasonable price.

 

***********

 

PS - regarding the Snow, it can only do four sounds simultaneously (unlike the "regular TIs that can do 16). Also, it has fewer knobs, which can make patch editing via the front panel a real chore, vs the TI which is a joy to program via the panel. With the Snow, you can, however, edit patches on your computer using the included Virus Control software.

[mildbill]

 

... So the B model cannot be used with a PC ? Can it not be used with FL Studio ? ...

 

 

 

 

If you have a computer, a sequencing program (like FL), and a midi interface for your computer, you can use any hardware synth or module that has midi. The Virus B has midi.

 

Midi (and audio) over USB is a fairly recent development. Midi's been around for over 30 years now.

[angstwulf]

You can do a hellalot with FL Studio and a Virus. On top of the MIDI interface you should also invest in a good audio interface/soundcard.

 

It sounds like you are fairly new to synthesis. I would recommend getting a Kb or an Indigo if you don't have a decent keyboard controller. Triggering the Virus with a keyboard makes learning to program a whole lot easier than if you are triggering it with a MIDI sequencer. If you shop well the cost of a keyboard Virus should be on par with buying a desktop and a keyboard controller.

 

The Snow is a less knobby version of the TI. Think of it as half a TI - same sounds, same computer integration half the polyphony. Again, if you are learning your way around a synth, I'd go for the B just for the extra knobbage.

[synth_lover]

Thanks again for the replies, every body. It's a little hard to decide. An old Virus B for $ 500 or a newer Ti (maybe Snow) with all the extras and sounds for around $1000. The thing is I just spent $850 on another synth, and a $1000 is a $ 1000. Yeah, I'll probably try and see if I can get the B for less than $500. But still I haven't gotten a clear answer to what the difference is between the Snow and the other Ti desktop. I understand there's the polyphony thing but do they both have the same number of presets ? Isn't the Snow a little harder to use since it has less knobs and more menu based ?

 

I'd really much prefer a Virus KB but they're almost non existant around here. So if I do buy the B I'm assuming I can use it with either my SH-201 or Yamaha MO6.

 

 

 

You can do a hellalot with FL Studio and a Virus. On top of the MIDI interface you should also invest in a good audio interface/soundcard. It sounds like you are fairly new to synthesis. I would recommend getting a Kb or an Indigo if you don't have a decent keyboard controller. Triggering the Virus with a keyboard makes learning to program a whole lot easier than if you are triggering it with a MIDI sequencer. If you shop well the cost of a keyboard Virus should be on par with buying a desktop and a keyboard controller. The Snow is a less knobby version of the TI. Think of it as half a TI - same sounds, same computer integration half the polyphony. Again, if you are learning your way around a synth, I'd go for the B just for the extra knobbage.

 

 

Yeah I'm new to synthesis though I've had my first synth for over a year now but haven't really been doing much with it except simple playing. However, when it comes to PC music I'm almost clueless. I can make simple connections and play soft synths using my synthesizer -which is also a controller- but I haven't gotten any deeper than that.

[Strenge]

I learned midi and synths back in the olden times (though not the really olden times before midi altogether--see Geoff Downes of Asia with his 21 keyboards onstage ) and compared to using softsynths/integrated synths it is quite inconvenient.

 

You've got two signal flow paths to contend with: midi and audio. Midi needs to get out of your controller into the computer--you are already doing that it sounds like if you are using softsynths. To get the Virus b to play your track, you need to get midi back out of the computer to the in of the Virus. The Virus, assuming everything is set properly (you need to probably turn "local" off if there is such a thing, and set the midi channels), now should respond to the midi commands you sent to the sequencer. As someone mentioned, in order to get a synth to play more than one part it needs to be "multitymbral", which means you need different sounds set to different midi channels. On the Virus that means using multi mode, which has limitations. After midi is taken care of, you have audio. The audio is the analog output of the Virus, so that needs to go somewhere so that you can hear it--and if you are also using sounds from the computer (samples, softsynths) you are likely needing a mixer before it gets amplified to your speakers/phones. Alternatively (I've not done this so I'm not sure) you may be able to put the Virus audio back into the computer on an audio track as you play it! Gets a bit confusing, it helps to diagram the signal flows, and you can likely find some diagrams on the web.

 

Softsynths make it so easy...if your cpu gets burdened you can freeze the track as audio in most programs. And the number one thing I love--if you edit the patch you don't have to worry about saving it inside the synth, naming it, possibly overwriting something else you liked...That is so incredibly awesome and timesaving. I think the TI viruses (virii?) will do that as well, any changes to the patch get saved in your song. That right there is worth a lot of money to me.

[angstwulf]

 

I'd really much prefer a Virus KB but they're almost non existant around here. So if I do buy the B I'm assuming I can use it with either my SH-201 or Yamaha MO6. Yeah I'm new to synthesis though I've had my first synth for over a year now but haven't really been doing much with it except simple playing. However, when it comes to PC music I'm almost clueless. I can make simple connections and play soft synths using my synthesizer -which is also a controller- but I haven't gotten any deeper than that.

 

 

The SH-201 is a great tool for learning synthesis basics. The sound quality is debatable but the layout allows you to quickly learn how each section of a basic synth works.

 

After you get the most out of your SH-201, ditch it and put the proceeds into buying the Virus. The Virus does a better job doing what the SH-201 can do and it can do so many things that the SH-201 cannot do.

 

I'm still biased towards synths with keyboards but the Yamaha will make a perfectly fine controller.

 

Take your time deciding on what Virus you want. They are not going away any time soon. If you are patient you can get a good deal on a B or even a C. There is a chart on the Access page that lays out all of the differences between the different generations and models. If you can't find it (you should) I think Infekted.org has a copy available. It's not a busy forum but there are a lot of members who know and love their Viruses (Virii? Virussesses?). By the way, the grand poobah of Infekted, Timo, still uses a B.

 

While you are waiting, spend some time learning the Yamaha and FL Studio. That's a pretty powerful combination, especially if you have the full version of some of FL's softsynths.

[synth_lover]

I learned midi and synths back in the olden times (though not the really olden times before midi altogether--see Geoff Downes of Asia with his 21 keyboards onstage ) and compared to using softsynths/integrated synths it is quite inconvenient. You've got two signal flow paths to contend with: midi and audio. Midi needs to get out of your controller into the computer--you are already doing that it sounds like if you are using softsynths. To get the Virus b to play your track, you need to get midi back out of the computer to the in of the Virus. The Virus, assuming everything is set properly (you need to probably turn "local" off if there is such a thing, and set the midi channels), now should respond to the midi commands you sent to the sequencer. As someone mentioned, in order to get a synth to play more than one part it needs to be "multitymbral", which means you need different sounds set to different midi channels. On the Virus that means using multi mode, which has limitations. After midi is taken care of, you have audio. The audio is the analog output of the Virus, so that needs to go somewhere so that you can hear it--and if you are also using sounds from the computer (samples, softsynths) you are likely needing a mixer before it gets amplified to your speakers/phones. Alternatively (I've not done this so I'm not sure) you may be able to put the Virus audio back into the computer on an audio track as you play it! Gets a bit confusing, it helps to diagram the signal flows, and you can likely find some diagrams on the web. Softsynths make it so easy...if your cpu gets burdened you can freeze the track as audio in most programs. And the number one thing I love--if you edit the patch you don't have to worry about saving it inside the synth, naming it, possibly overwriting something else you liked...That is so incredibly awesome and timesaving. I think the TI viruses (virii?) will do that as well, any changes to the patch get saved in your song. That right there is worth a lot of money to me.

 

Man !! was that English That sounds like a new language to me. Honestly, I dont know much about all that stuff. What I know is very basic like I said. I dont think I'll ever understand all that stuff. To me, it's very confusing and I doubt I can figure it out by myself. But thanks any way for spending the time explaining things. I still appreciate that.

 

 

Angstwulf, the SH-201 is my first synth. So, it kinda has a sentimental value. I also like its looks but I especially like its Supersaw and its ease of use (layout). I dont think it sounds bad too. But I know it's NO Virus or close. I think I am going to get that Virus B for now although I too prefer to have the keyboard one. Virus Ti (keyboard) is my dream synth but until its price drops a little -hopefully the next 10 years or so - I think my best bet to get a piece of a Virus is to get one of the older ones-like the B. They're really hard to come by around here. I'm thinking maybe the Virus and the Yamaha MO6 should be more than enough. I'm debating selling the SH-201 and the Korg X5 because I think the Virus and the Yamaha will probably cover all the sounds I can think of. As for FL Studio, well, I dont think I'll figure out how to use it. It's just sitting on my PC but I can't say I've even tried to figure out how to use it. It just looks too confusing. If it were a CD I probably would've smashed it and gotten rid of it long time ago. So far I think it was a total waste of $200. I got too much stuff on my mind to deal with already and dont need more.

 

Thanks again.

[ChristianRock]

Give FL Studio a chance. If you haven't tried to use it, it just means that you're feeling intimidated, not that it's rocket science.

Watch the tutorials from the imageline Youtube channel, you'll be glad you did. Honestly.

Also, unless you need the funds, wait to sell the SH-201 after you've bought the Virus. They will probably compliment each other well and it's not like you'll make a ton of cash from the SH-201 anyway. It's very worth its price.

The X5 can be substituted for an NS5R module that'll cost like 50-80 dollars, and will have a lot more useful sounds. It's what I got and I love the sound quality.

[angstwulf]

ChristianRock speaks true. Take baby steps learning FL Studio: you know how to play a softsynth with your keyboard. Learn how to use different MIDI channels so you can control different soft synths. Then learn how to best get audio in and out of your computer. There are many fine tutorials online aside from FL Studios. Tweakheadz is a good start as is the article archives in Sound On Sound and Electronic Musician.

 

Also, download the manuals for the Virus. There is an excellent book length tutorial by Howard Scarr also available at the Access site. I recommend printing it and reading it before bed or sitting on the crapper.

 

If the SH-201 has sentimental value, then keep it. I became attached to my first "real" electric guitar, a MIJ Strat. It's been over twenty years now and it's my still my main instrument.

 

Now let us pray: This is my synth. There are many others like it, but this one is mine. My synth is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. Without me, my synth is useless. Without my synth, I am useless. I must program my synth true

[Strenge]

Man !! was that English That sounds like a new language to me. Honestly, I dont know much about all that stuff. What I know is very basic like I said. I dont think I'll ever understand all that stuff. To me, it's very confusing and I doubt I can figure it out by myself. But thanks any way for spending the time explaining things. I still appreciate that. Thanks again.

 

I made it sound worse than it is...it boils down to "signal flow", which is audio engineering-speak for "get the signal from source to destination". It's the heart of understanding anything in the audio (or video) world, and applies to midi and audio in this case. You are already handling part of the flow if you are able to use softsynths.

 

"Flow" is a good way to think of it. I used to teach labs helping students with midi rigs and medium-size consoles, and that can be intimidating. But if you picture the signal (say an audio signal from a keyboard) coming into the console as water, you need to make it flow through to the destination (the stereo main outs). There are dams and diversions in the way, and there's little side paths you can take the signal on (say if you want to apply a compressor, or get some effects like reverb or delay applied to your keyboard sound).

 

Anyway, long--winded rambling here but it's important to note that as someone mentioned, it's not rocket science. But it can be very intimidating when you look at a nest of wires and buttons and settings, and it can be extremely frustrating. You can have 99 connections and settings correct, but one tiny menu in a piece of gear can mean no sound at all (and then you blow out your ears since you turned everything up trying to figure it out ). And of course, you then start changing everything, so a *different* setting becomes the problem even if you fix the first thing!

 

Computers IMO make the situation both simpler in terms of connections but harder to "envision" in terms of signal flow, since now you have a "black box" that is handling everything, especially considering all the different computer/software/driver combinations users have to deal with.

[synth_lover]

ChristianRock, Angstwulf and Strenge, thank you again. I appreciate your feedback and encouragement. I'm sure FL Studio is no rocket science and I'm not a dumb man but I have a couple of problems that have kept me from putting my mind into it. One of my main problems is procrastination and the other, well, I just have too much sh*t going on in my life that has caused me to put everything on hold...for a long time. My love for music and synths is stronger than ever though and that's why I'm piling up synths -within my small budget- and software music programs to try and encourage myself to pursue this hobby but I still find it hard to move forward.

 

I've tried messing up with FL many many times since I bought it but I do find it intimidating and I quickly give up trying. They should've included some kind of an instruction guide. Those videos they have are few and pretty much useless. And the youtube ones aren't any better since all of those guys go thru their "how to's" so fast as if every one's watching were an expert. I can't say I've checked'em all out but so far the ones I've seen were plain useless.

 

I'm still thinking about whether I should sell the SH-201 even though I like this board and it is my first synth but on the other hand I'm not a rich guy and I dont need 3 or 4 synths. I keep telling myself the Yamaha MO6 and a Virus B should do. It's true, the SH and the Korg arent going to make me a fortune but I can use the money to buy the Virus instead of having to pay out of my pocket again.

[Darkstorm]

Used to own a Virus KB the 61 key version. Id replace it in a heartbeat if the price was right. So long as it came with the additional sound banks they dont have stock which are somehow loaded by midi from computer conection. Stock it was great but I never liked that I couldnt get the additonal sound bank voices. No one was willing to load them for me even though it was supposed to be simple thing for anyone experienced with sequencers and basic midi downloads. The only other thing I didnt like was the control panal knobs etc where not as intuitive as my Novation KS4 or the Nord lead 2x I used to also own. Only real reason I sold the synth was needed money at the time. I didnt use as many voices on it as I did/do with my Novation. But they was a thing of dark luscious VA beauty. Variations and mods to fave stock voices the virus kb had. Its one of the few synths I think worth $1,200 or more.