PC or Mac?

[projectwoofer]

The differences between PC and Mac are not only the hardware used and the build quality...what about OS differences? Mac OSX vs WinXP/7?

[Metrosonus]

Superior support, better performance/dollar ratio.

 

I'd give you that on the RISC, but I don't know about the newer processors yet. I've actually been disappointed with apples support lately. They used to be top notch, but now they seem to be lower paid college kids that think it's cool to work for apple.

 

what about OS differences? Mac OSX vs WinXP/7?

 

They do the same thing. they just do it differently with different names and looks. more or less.

 

I had one of my graduate classes with a guy who worked in publishing and he told me that in the 80's macs had the edge over PCs as far as multimedia but these days it's just a preference as far as look and feel goes

[Dr.Innovation]

The differences between PC and Mac are not only the hardware used and the build quality...what about OS differences? Mac OSX vs WinXP/7?

Well to nip the differences in the butt...
Macs have special guidelines when they are built/assembled.

The issue with HP, Dell and Gateway (list goes on) they are mass
produced machines. IF a part happens to run out guess what?
They don't get the exact part, same with a motherboard.
-This is why issues can arise where the cause can sometimes
NEVER be discovered or pinpointed much less isolated and resolved...

My buddy who works for a DAW company mentioned the fact they used to
use motherboards from a certain company and he referred to them
as "snowflakes" -because he saw different parts being used, more than
likely they ran out of certain components/parts and used what
they thought would work within a certain tolerance.


While it is a fact OSX is a lighter OS than say Windows
it isn't the best platform for the best DAW experience either.

Of course to a novice, a computer that "just works" could be
said to be the best, but in hindsight they may have been led
down a certain path to avoid the issues that plague OSX, and they
readily founded with zero skills in google searching.

My Window's PC DAW "just worked" the moment I started to use it.
When my needs require extreme low latency, with an onslaught of
300GB libraries + -my PC will be up to the task without issues.

I can't say this about a Mac due to the issues I've seen, read about
and witnessed first hand, which is why I went (Windows) PC.



In the end the only glaring issues I see with a PC versus Mac:

I've seen people having to run more RAM than a similarly spec'd Mac (PRO)
or Mac Book Pro. Subsequently I've also noted how a slower CPU
(in GHZ) could run just as good as a faster Windows PC CPU.
(the differences are nominal at best)

This seems to make the correlation between people saying they
don't need XXX or YYY because the Mac runs more efficient, however
this is a moot point considering the prices are not in a Mac's favor.

[carbon111]

Putting a PC together from components guarantees that you will lose a HDD controller, MOBO or something within 3-5 years.

No problems of that kind in two decades of making my own PCs. Coupla bad HDs though.
...but not recently.

With a day job as an IT guy I fix a ton of PCs and find most hardware failures have to do with improper installation, misuse or lack of maintenance.

[Metrosonus]

what motherboards do you recommend?

 

All the ones i've seen, foxconn, asus etc lose something sooner or later. that's being cleaned, proper ventilation etc..

 

I personally have had so many mystery problems, ie an install of windows 2000 that hung up on one particular file even after I changed the battery, IDE cables, CPU, RAM, HDD and install disk. Once I replaced the motherboard, everything went smoothly.

[kilon]

[YOUTUBE]yX8yrOAjfKM[/YOUTUBE]

[Metrosonus]

that was pretty funny

[soundwave106]

Putting a PC together from components guarantees that you will lose a HDD controller, MOBO or something within 3-5 years. I've lost too many and seen my students have the same problems. I think component companies figure they got the kids (gamers) in a corner because when something fails, they want to upgrade anyway. So I'm very certain that component hardware is designed to fail after so many years.

I have that happen more often with prebuilt systems. The difference being, when a prebuilt system fails, sometimes the parts are custom {censored}, and you end up having to replace the whole f'n thing.

Never lost a hand-picked motherboard that I can recall (I have two built systems at home, and have put together one for my sister's house). Lost a pre-assembled Shuttle motherboard because the fan connector shorted; lost a Dell motherboard at work because the CPU fan KOed (and there was no monitor to tell you).

Cool the thing nicely and most of the well rated mobos are pretty reliable. Especially with cheaper boxes, I find that they take shortcuts on good ventilation and other aspects.

The *bleeding edge* graphic cards can be problematic, but I don't play games, so no problem there. I've lost one video card in like seven or eight years. And really, who cares? Swap it out and you are done. Lost an LCD monitor after 5 years too, meh, again, who cares?

The only HDs I've lost were quite old, like a 7 year old one a couple years ago. I've lost a couple externals but that's the nature of the beast, transport kills those things quick.

I have an Apple Mac Mini that is quietly humming along as a file server / stream recorder / etc. It's pretty spiffy but it *can* overheat on anything intense. We'll see how long it lasts...

[carbon111]

what motherboards do you recommend? All the ones i've seen, foxconn, asus etc lose something sooner or later. that's being cleaned, proper ventilation etc.. I personally have had so many mystery problems, ie an install of windows 2000 that hung up on one particular file even after I changed the battery, IDE cables, CPU, RAM, HDD and install disk. Once I replaced the motherboard, everything went smoothly.

Hmm. Intel, Supermicro, Tyan, ASUS, they're all pretty good anymore. Sounds like you got a bad one. It certainly can happen.

I also check at the manufacturer sites for recommended RAM (that's actually been tested with the board) and any BIOS patches (seeing what was patched), etc.

Compatability is obviously easier if you have a Dell or an Apple to do it for you.
But it's all the same guts...even macs for the most part these days.

Some of my anal computer tendencies:
I never use sleeve-bearing fans (always ball), I never use the crap thermal paste supplied but get a decent silver paste, I only use warrantied name-brand memory. I choose cases for ventilation rather than looks. I always zip-tie cables into unobstructed groups. I never put a PC on the floor (otherwise you just suck tons of dust into the chassis). I always buy a warrantied name-brand power supply rated for at least 50% more power than I think I need, modular connectors are better to keep interior clutter down = better ventilation. I always build for stability, rather that outright speed when making a music PC so I'll often choose a mid-to-high-end Intel mobo. There's lots more...

At some point I should write an assembly description of my DAW PC and my much-cheaper Softsynth PC and post it for general perusal. I saved a lot of cash and have very powerful stable machines.

My last three PCs were built with quiet components into 4U rack enclosures and are mounted with the rest of my studio gear:

[j_e_f_f_g]

http://www.dailytech.com/Reports+Apples+Fresh+New+MacBook+Airs+Experiencing+Display+Problems+Crashes/article20055.htm

[Metrosonus]

Compatability is obviously easier if you have a Dell or an Apple to do it for you.

 

shut up

 

That sounds all like what i've done.. name brand parts, drivers, firmware, etc cooling up the yin yang.. I pissed my wife off with how many fans I had in my last HTPC. So i dont know why my or my students bad luck lies, although most of us do buy from tiger direct / comp USA.. maybe they have some storage issues that's causing EM / heat damage?

[carbon111]

shut up

Whoa! The compatibility comment was definitely not meant as a poke at anyone! :poke:

That sounds all like what i've done.. name brand parts, drivers, firmware, etc cooling up the yin yang.. I pissed my wife off with how many fans I had in my last HTPC. So i dont know why my or my students bad luck lies, although most of us do buy from tiger direct / comp USA.. maybe they have some storage issues that's causing EM / heat damage?

I either buy locally or do Newegg.com.
Honestly, I've just never had those kind of problems. I worked on my first computer in '76 (upgraded my TRS-80's RAM to 16K!!!). I built my first PC from scratch in '87. In the time since then I've had one motherboard go bad (heatsink came off the Northbridge chip) and I've had two HDs fail early on...one was a 1 gibabyte monster (those were the days)! Maybe had a couple of bad sticks of generic RAM about ten years ago or so.

In my opinion quality control is much better now. There are obvious exceptions though - at work we has about eight Asrock mobos fail, all within a six month window. Here at work my experience has been similar to soundwave106's above with manufactured PCs just having low quality components fail or, even worse, proprietary components.

The PCs I personally built for this company seven years ago are still going strong...except one that someone spilled spindle coolant into.

[Metrosonus]

oh cmon on was kidding

 

it's the heat down here i tells ya...

 

i mean seriously... in fact, because our facilities department won't run the air in our auditoriums, i now have to shut down all the equipment and pull the plug because we've replaced so many components to heat failure.

[carbon111]

Oh, well that's all right then. Carry on.

 

[Metrosonus]

oh well Tigerdirect ships out of Miami too... wow i may have just figured out my problem

 

[Dr.Innovation]

what motherboards do you recommend? All the ones i've seen, foxconn, asus etc lose something sooner or later. that's being cleaned, proper ventilation etc.. I personally have had so many mystery problems, ie an install of windows 2000 that hung up on one particular file even after I changed the battery, IDE cables, CPU, RAM, HDD and install disk. Once I replaced the motherboard, everything went smoothly.

 

 

 

Gigabyte...

 

There is nothing better in terms of

-quality of components (namely copper)

-build quality and quality control

-overall features/price ratio

 

Onboard Texas Instruments firewire controller...

The board itself doesn't flex...

[Plink Floyd]

 

I always build for stability, rather that outright speed when making a music PC so I'll often choose a mid-to-high-end Intel mobo.

I've always had great reliability & longevity even from low end Intel mobos. I think it makes sense to let the proc work with a chipset that was designed & built by the same mfgr. I've even had pretty good luck with the very cheapest mobos as long as they have Intel bridges.

 

Clean power, ventilation, and surge protection are our friends.

 

No AMD anything, and no Maxtor HDDs.

 

(This is now a PC hardware He-man nerd thread.)

[kilon]

that was pretty funny

 

 

how about this.

 

[YOUTUBE]iEAGmBRC1dc[/YOUTUBE]

 

[YOUTUBE]uLbJ8YPHwXM[/YOUTUBE]

 

[YOUTUBE]UCV3VlZA06I[/YOUTUBE]

[soundwave106]

Gigabyte... There is nothing better in terms of -quality of components (namely copper) -build quality and quality control -overall features/price ratio

There might be something to that; browsing my Newegg orders, one of my computers is now seven years old today. It is running a Gigabyte GA-8KNXP.

The two year old computer is running an Abit IP35; we'll see how long it lasts.

*All* my computers are running on APC UPSs. Yeah, especially around *here*, surge protection is of the utmost importance.

[kilon]

I am happy to report that both my pcs at work failed within 3 years of using them. The pc I work had a failed hard disk about a year ago . And today my collagues LCD screen failed , ( I gave her a 15 year old CRT screen as temporary replacement ) I have bought both pcs cause this is my company.

To be fair though my 3 year old macbook (which my father uses and abuses , that macbook must have kissed the floor more than 10 times and it would have been 100 time if it was not for the magnetically attached cable , APPLE TOP BUILD QUALITY I was talking about earlier, my father is very clumsy) has a failed battery, mac batteries are known to last around 3 years. I was surpised however that it died so suddenly. With one HUGE diffirence.The macbook has not stop functioning like my 2 pcs.

Both pcs, use good hardware brands for their parts. For example the failed LCD was Samsung which is known for its reliability while the failed HD was Western Digital.

So at work is PC - MAC 2-0 fails as "the computer does not longer work and need a replacement part ASAP". Obviously those 2 are the last pcs I ever buy.

[Dr.Innovation]

I am happy to report that both my pcs at work failed within 3 years of using them. The pc I work had a failed hard disk about a year ago . And today my collagues LCD screen failed , ( I gave her a 15 year old CRT screen as temporary replacement ) I have bought both pcs cause this is my company. To be fair though my 3 year old macbook (which my father uses and abuses , that macbook must have kissed the floor more than 10 times and it would have been 100 time if it was not for the magnetically attached cable , APPLE TOP BUILD QUALITY I was talking about earlier, my father is very clumsy) has a failed battery, mac batteries are known to last around 3 years. I was surpised however that it died so suddenly. With one HUGE diffirence.The macbook has not stop functioning like my 2 pcs. Both pcs, use good hardware brands for their parts. For example the failed LCD was Samsung which is known for its reliability while the failed HD was Western Digital. So at work is PC - MAC 2-0 fails as "the computer does not longer work and need a replacement part ASAP". Obviously those 2 are the last pcs I ever buy.

Um, how exactly does a PC *die* ???
A part fails because parts aren't made to last a lifetime.
Taking care of it is part of maintenance.

.Things like:
-making sure dust/debris is cleared from fans, and the interior.
-running defragment software.
-using quality parts that work with one another

You may have gotten a bad LCD from a bad batch.
This happens with every manufacturer, remember Apple and
its yellow screen issue? I do.

I've run Acers side by side X223 and they
run great, zero dead pixels...even Acer has had issues before.

A mass produced PC isn't the same as a
hand pieced together PC, just like you comparing
a generic mass produced PC cannot be compared to
a Mac Pro desktop PC because they only use Apple approved hardware.

You replace a logic board with a logic board.
You can't just buy an EVGA motherboard and slap it in.
I know you didn't say that but this is why issues are harder
to find on a (Mac varaint) platform where it was ONLY designed to use
certain parts unlike a PC which can use severely crappy hardware.

[kilon]

Um, how exactly does a PC *die* ??? A part fails because parts aren't made to last a lifetime. Taking care of it is part of maintenance. .Things like: -making sure dust/debris is cleared from fans, and the interior. -running defragment software. -using quality parts that work with one another You may have gotten a bad LCD from a bad batch. This happens with every manufacturer, remember Apple and its yellow screen issue? I do. I've run Acers side by side X223 and they run great, zero dead pixels...even Acer has had issues before. A mass produced PC isn't the same as a hand pieced together PC, just like you comparing a generic mass produced PC cannot be compared to a Mac Pro desktop PC because they only use Apple approved hardware. You replace a logic board with a logic board. You can't just buy an EVGA motherboard and slap it in. I know you didn't say that but this is why issues are harder to find on a (Mac varaint) platform where it was ONLY designed to use certain parts unlike a PC which can use severely crappy hardware.

Dust does not make your computer fail, fragmantation most certainly does not make your hard drive fail, maintainace or lack of never makes a hardware fail. Only bad build quality cause all that in a time frame of less than 3 years.

All my pcs have been custom made, always used highest quality parts.There are no excuses here and I am not going to excuse neither a pc or a mac. In my book if you fail... you fail. End of the story. And all my pcs , desktop and laptops have failed in those 3 year timeframe. And its not just 2 unlucky pcs.

The only pc that has not failed on me is the only one that was not custom made. But it was an an old 486 DX 60 mhz, simpler computer , more difficult to fail.


When I spent my hard earned money , I demand it to last.At least 10 years. If it does not, then It has lost me as a customer. It wont save it if its a pc, a cute mac, an ultra fat analogue or a mega complex VA.

The end.

[ElectricPuppy]

Dust CAN make your PC (or any other microelectronic thingabob) fail, due to it acting as a thermal blanket. If a chip is running close to the edge, heat-wise, then putting a blanket over it could tip it over the edge.

[carbon111]

Dust can ruin fan bearings very quickly, especially sleeve bearings.

 

Most pre-built PCs have rather questionable quality IMHO...I'm speaking as a tech who manages over 50 PCs in my day job and have been doing so for more than a decade. (Some of the PCs are prebuilt, some built-to-order, some built by me - ranging from consumer grade, to CAD/CAM workstations and servers)

[Yoozer]

The pc I work had a failed hard disk about a year ago.

 

 

Harddisks failing is not a matter of "if" but "when". Everyone with a brain should take this into account.

 

Again, fighting over the internals is useless. It's the OS - but more importantly, the SOFTWARE that runs on that OS that makes all the difference. Unless you stare at computer guts only and never switch the bloody thing on.