Members silverfacechamp Posted December 19, 2006 Members Share Posted December 19, 2006 Originally posted by rememberduane Thank you VERY much for clearing that up. Typically, are these blastocysts created from donated eggs and sperm or what? Blastocystic cells are nearly always obtained from in vitro fertilization labs or similar situations. When performing these procedures, more than one egg (oocyte) is harvested and fertilized. It is then determined what the most viable sample is, and then that sample (fertilized egg) is transferred back to the mother. The remaining samples are either frozen for later scientific use (stem cell research) or destroyed. This is why the argument that 'You're destroying human life!!' is absurd. They're not taking anything from anybody that hasn't already been procured for other uses. They're essentially finding a use for previously unused material. These procedures have been going on for decades and nobody has said a damn thing about people being able have natural birth babies as a result of invitro procedures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Romanian Reaper Posted December 19, 2006 Members Share Posted December 19, 2006 Originally posted by rememberduane I'm vehemently against abortion -- I'm also pro-choice. Mull it over. I do understand actually. I'm all about freedom and choice and all of that. Unfortunately for every 1 woman who gets an abortion because she is losing blood on the operating table, there are 100 more that will get their 4th as a way of birth control. Trust me, I'v seen it first hand in my own family. I know there is nothing that can be done about it. I'v just always had a weird feeling when it comes to things that are not "natural", including a vasectomy I got years ago. I always feel like mother nature will come back and kick the crap out of us for messing with things. I definitely understand where you and Dirtybird are coming from though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rememberduane Posted December 19, 2006 Author Members Share Posted December 19, 2006 I actually applaud you guys. This may very well be the most civil, intelligent, informative off-topic hot-button-issue thread HC has ever had. I'm learning a lot, keep the discussion coming, and on the same level if you please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rodimus Prime Posted December 19, 2006 Members Share Posted December 19, 2006 you're all {censored} for brains!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rememberduane Posted December 19, 2006 Author Members Share Posted December 19, 2006 Originally posted by Rodimus Prime you're all {censored} for brains!!!!! {censored}tard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ***1776*** Posted December 19, 2006 Members Share Posted December 19, 2006 Holy {censored} is this really HC? Some of the most INFORMATIVE - non trolling open minded fair/honest talk and debates ive seen in a loooooooong time! Way to go boys, keep it up.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members silverfacechamp Posted December 19, 2006 Members Share Posted December 19, 2006 Originally posted by Romanian Reaper I always feel like mother nature will come back and kick the crap out of us for messing with things. There are many mathematicians and biologists that would agree with you. Chaos theory at its finest. Nature always finds a way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wizard of Ozz Posted December 19, 2006 Members Share Posted December 19, 2006 Originally posted by silverfacechamp They're essentially finding a use for previously unused material. That about sums it up. The debate over embryonic stem cell research has little to do with abortion. They are totally seperate issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members silverfacechamp Posted December 19, 2006 Members Share Posted December 19, 2006 Originally posted by Wizard of Ozz That about sums it up. The debate over embryonic stem cell research has little to do with abortion. They are totally seperate issues. Exactly. Abortion is a whole other ethical issue in and of itself. It's the blurring of the two that has everybody up in arms. If people would take the time to read up on this, or any hot button issue for that matter, there wouldn't be nearly the discussion that there is. The media sensationalizes and twists things around so badly its difficult to know what's true and what's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DirtyBird Posted December 19, 2006 Members Share Posted December 19, 2006 Originally posted by silverfacechamp There are many mathematicians and biologists that would agree with you. Chaos theory at its finest. Nature always finds a way. That wouldn't be anything specific to the stem cell research field, every heart bypass, every transplant, and every knee surgery would similarly defeat nature, would it not? It's not even limited to the medical field... A dog house is circumventing nature when the dog can stay warm and dry in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members silverfacechamp Posted December 19, 2006 Members Share Posted December 19, 2006 Originally posted by DirtyBird That wouldn't be anything specific to the stem cell research field, every heart bypass, every transplant, and every knee surgery would similarly defeat nature, would it not? It's not even limited to the medical field... A dog house is circumventing nature when the dog can stay warm and dry in it. You misread my post, DirtyBird. I'm not saying that I personally subscribe to that line of thought. I do not. I'm saying that some do, and that those that do would agree with the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ***1776*** Posted December 19, 2006 Members Share Posted December 19, 2006 Originally posted by silverfacechamp Exactly. Abortion is a whole other ethical issue in and of itself. It's the blurring of the two that has everybody up in arms. If people would take the time to read up on this, or any hot button issue for that matter, there wouldn't be nearly the discussion that there is. The media sensationalizes and twists things around so badly its difficult to know what's true and what's not. +100000000 The media in this country is so pathetic, whether its NOT doing a fair job and presenting ALL facts/evidence/sides of a story, or sensationalizing a story or scaring us (ever see the news teases? "Whats in your sink can kill you, news at 11:00" ) its basically a "dumbing down of issues and the general public/society as a whole".. I could go on + on but i really really really DETEST/LOATH todays headline grabbing/sensationalism joke of a media.. PS - I would LOVE to see the media have the balls and take a poll on what people think of them, but they would never do it.. Ok Rant off, back to a great topic/debate on HC and listening 2 my 0.2 cents, now back to your regulary scheduled program.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dark Angel Posted December 19, 2006 Members Share Posted December 19, 2006 I'm eagerly anticipating having the vast majority of my connective tissues farmed and grafted before I'm dead. Replacing my lungs before I die of cancer would be nice too. With the recent discovery about diabetes and pain receptors and how it might relate to asthma, new, modified, lungs get even more exciting. I saw recently that they are taking heart attack patients and spraying the cardiac walls with stem cells taken from the patient's bone marrow, and the hearts are healing... that is very cool! I'm bummed that I'm too old to have had my cord blood harvested. It may just make me one of the last of the "old people". However, I really do have zero tolerance for partial birth abortions. First trimester abortions are "fine" by me, though I could never do it myslf unless the baby had major issues (like I saw a special where these people had a baby with no face, and kept operating on it to try to make one... that's {censored}ed and selfish to me). It's like eating higher order mammals. Cows are fine. Monkeys are not. Killing a fetus with decent reason before there's little hands, feet, and brain activity isn't aweful. Sucking the brain out of a baby that is 100% viable if "fully birthed" is just horrifying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members silverfacechamp Posted December 19, 2006 Members Share Posted December 19, 2006 Originally posted by Dark Angel I'm eagerly anticipating having the vast majority of my connective tissues farmed and grafted before I'm dead. Replacing my lungs before I die of cancer would be nice too. With the recent discovery about diabetes and pain receptors and how it might relate to asthma, new, modified, lungs get even more exciting. Yep. That's another benefit: organ transplants with a near zero chance of rejection. That alone could save hundreds of thousands of lives. Cell therapy studies are already underway. The Mayo Clinic and the Cardiac Institute in the Minneapolis area are already using cell therapy to attempt to treat blood pathway breakdown in the limbs of diabetes patients. The potential is there, they just need to be able to pursue it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Guvnor Posted December 19, 2006 Members Share Posted December 19, 2006 Originally posted by Rodimus Prime funny how its called pro-choice. there is strong sense if irony in the title. irony, makes too light of the situation.i can't think of a good reason to kill a fetus. I rekon that the birth of a child is always a good thing, its the perspective that shifts the reality. Not to make light, but you've obviously never watched Jerry Springer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members telephant Posted December 19, 2006 Members Share Posted December 19, 2006 Im all for killing babies and old people. Two birds. One stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rememberduane Posted December 19, 2006 Author Members Share Posted December 19, 2006 Originally posted by telephant Im all for killing babies and old people. Two birds. One stone. Modest proposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Echoes Posted December 19, 2006 Members Share Posted December 19, 2006 Originally posted by rememberduane I think religion needs to be more accountable (see also: Fundamentalism, Extremism) along with science. Both need to maintain a much better dialogue with secular philosophy. Secular philosophy = ends justify the means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ripfence Posted December 19, 2006 Members Share Posted December 19, 2006 Originally posted by buntaluffigus To touch on the abortion issue for a second. I do support abortion, but first and foremost I support people being responsible for their actions. Which could include taking care of the fetus growing in the womb? At least I think that is what you were saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rememberduane Posted December 19, 2006 Author Members Share Posted December 19, 2006 Originally posted by Echoes Secular philosophy = ends justify the means. Wow.. I was wondering when your ignorant ass would show up. Utilitarianism, a tiny sect of philosophy = ends justify the means. Go learn more, then talk. Until then, stay out of intelligent conversations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Echoes Posted December 19, 2006 Members Share Posted December 19, 2006 Originally posted by rememberduane I don't really see how you can conflate stem-cell research and abortion. First of all, stem-cells are only taken from already aborted fetuses. actually, this is part of the debate. Once *MONEY* enters the equation all bets are off, and, if it is dealing with *HUMAN MERCHANDISE* of even the most 'embryonic' stages, you can be sure that *GREED* will overcome human rights/morals/ethics. But if they are going to do it anyway, why should those lives go completely to waste? I'm vehemently against abortion -- I'm also pro-choice. Mull it over. Murderers are going to kill people anyway...so, why don't we get them really good guns and teach them to shoot accurately so, *INNOCENT* folks don't get killed in their murdering foray In any case, there is promising research, awaiting reproduction of lab results, that would allow harvesting fully-functional embryonic (general) stem-cells from living embryos without damaging the embryo. it *ALWAYS* starts as a procedure to preserve and aid in ailing/sick individuals...but, anybody that is aware of the potential for *ENHANCEMENT and COSMETICS* will soon realize the thrust of this argument is funded and pushed by those that stand to turn a huge *PROFIT* from human resources...in the hand of single dimensional 'situation ethics/ends justifies the means' society spells for a *LEGAL* recipe for murder for profit. (The 'slippery slope' where, inevitably, secular society always falls to). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rememberduane Posted December 19, 2006 Author Members Share Posted December 19, 2006 Originally posted by Echoes snip I'm not going point to point because you've ignored the facts already brought up in this thread. I recommend you leave the thread now, and go get an education, or whatever it is you want to do. Just stay out of intelligent conversations, because you do nothing but raise an ignorant, idiotic {censored}-storm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Echoes Posted December 19, 2006 Members Share Posted December 19, 2006 Originally posted by rememberduane Wow.. I was wondering when your ignorant ass would show up. Utilitarianism, a tiny sect of philosophy = ends justify the means. Go learn more, then talk. Until then, stay out of intelligent conversations. R-Duanne, your a smart kid and I appreciate that...keep thinking and asking the hard questions you are welcome to your conclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rememberduane Posted December 19, 2006 Author Members Share Posted December 19, 2006 Originally posted by Echoes R-Duanne, your a smart kid and I appreciate that...keep thinking and asking the hard questions you are welcome to your conclusions. You're welcome to your conclusions as well when they're based on fact, but when your opinions are based on ignorant assumptions and you spew the misinformation as fact, then no, you are no longer entitled to them. I recommend leaving the thread now because you've already infected it with misinformation and ignorant rhetoric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Echoes Posted December 19, 2006 Members Share Posted December 19, 2006 Originally posted by rememberduane I'm not going point to point because you've ignored the facts already brought up in this thread. I recommend you leave the thread now, and go get an education, or whatever it is you want to do. Just stay out of intelligent conversations, because you do nothing but raise an ignorant, idiotic {censored}-storm. OK, I will respect that it is your thread... let me know when you put the coloring books away and start having a grown-up conversation... adios. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.