Organ Comping

[kwyn]

Where is a good place to get some online demos/lessons of some good rock organ comping...mainly Greg Allman style, but any blue/rock (not so much jazz)?

 

I have a hard time isolating the organ in southern rock mainly because the guitars are loud in often in that range, but I'd really like to hear specifically what guys like Greg are doing when they are not soloing.

 

So perhaps recommendations should be organ lesson vidoes or tracks where it is easy to distinguis the B3.

 

Thanks!

 

Kwyn

[ybakos]

Hey man, as a traditional piano player I too want to learn more about organ comping. Please share anything you find.

[Plink Floyd]

tracks where it is easy to distinguis the B3.

 

Go to LIVE365.com and search for "Hammond Organ Radio". All Hammond, All the Time:

Specializing in the famous Hammond Organ ™ Leslie ™ music Sound and the Great Hammond Organists that make such wonderful music with Blues, Jazz, Rock, R&B, Country & Gospel genres..."

 

But it's everything they can find that was played on a Hammond, till you're bloody sick of it.

I've heard Allmans, Ethel Smith, Dick Hyman, all the jazz cats...

[tremens]

one and the only...

 

[video=youtube;p8jJ1ORIOes]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8jJ1ORIOes

[KingVidiot]

It's good to have the "organ" comped once in a while. Use it or lose it...

 

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

[Plink Floyd]

It's good to have the "organ" comped once in a while. Use it or lose it... Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Organ jokes are neither great nor swell.

 

Stop.

[pogo97]

Another piano player. I guess I'd love a magic answer, too. What I think I know is:

1) you can't play too little

2) much of Hammond is the art of noise

3) the Leslie is at least as important to Hammond as the sustain pedal is to piano

[mididoc]

Here is an article that may help with SOME aspects of B-3 comping:

http://www.keyboardmag.com/article/the-red-zone/February-2011/127657

[Plink Floyd]

 

Another piano player. I guess I'd love a magic answer, too.

Good piano players have my respect. I'm a mediocre practicioner of that arcane science. It's easier to sound impressive driving a Hammond.

 

 

1) you can't play too little:

That's one fundamental of comping, isn't it? All I know about Allman Bros music comes from their radio hits, but it seems to me that Gregg's organ comping is squarely in the "can't play too little" school. If I'm ever called upon to play their music, I wouldn't agonize too much about copying it note for note. After all, the OP did observe that you can't hear it. In the verse of "Jessica", for example, he plays a harmony part along with the guitars, and on the chorus it's just big happy block chords. In rock, simple two or three note "power chords" usually work fine. Just try to emulate rhythm guitar parts. If you're blessed with an actual two manual Hammond (or eqiv.), you can spice it with a few of those tasty percussive slaps.

 

 

3) the Leslie is at least as important to Hammond as the sustain pedal is to piano

I suggest that it's more like the difference between playing guitar through a Marshall and a crummy home stereo. And the Leslie isn't absolutely necessary. I learned a lot by copping Lord's licks from "Machine Head", where there's nary a Leslie to be heard.

 

 

2) much of Hammond is the art of noise

Some of rock Hammond playing is noise, but so is rock guitarage and drummery. The following is not noise:

 

[video=youtube;dFcVaitADW8]

[Synthaholic]

A comping master:

 

 

 

 

[video=youtube;BHI1BM0Kr-8]

 

[video=youtube;FGDocC6hVeg]

 

 

[video=youtube;i9aftG6pybA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9aftG6pybA

[Plink Floyd]

You know, us yanks just don't get enough samba in our diets.

 

And now, a bit of Brit drollery from those knuckleheads over at hamtech:

 

 

"LICENSED (TO KILL) BY HAMMOND ORGAN COMPANY, U.K. LIMITED, LONDON"

 

[yorgatron]

Go to LIVE365.com and search for "Hammond Organ Radio". All Hammond, All the Time: Specializing in the famous Hammond Organ (TM) Leslie (TM) music Sound and the Great Hammond Organists that make such wonderful music with Blues, Jazz, Rock, R&B, Country & Gospel genres..." But it's everything they can find that was played on a Hammond, till you're bloody sick of it. I've heard Allmans, Ethel Smith, Dick Hyman, all the jazz cats...

 

I've been tuned in for a couple of hours now,all good stuff,except for the Garth Brooks song they just played.

[Plink Floyd]

Yeah, lately country seems to have 'discovered' Hammond. I'm glad I wasn't listening. I usually change the channel at "The Girl From Ipanema".

[pogo97]

 

... It's easier to sound impressive driving a Hammond....

 

 

It's certainly easier to fit into a guitar-driven band with a Hammond than with a piano. On the other hand, it's easier to sound okay solo on a piano (for me, anyway) and then there's the New Orleans piano-driven band concept...

[TIMKEYS]

I have found that a regular acoustic piano tends to fall in the same sonic range as the guitars in my band and comes out awkward. the solution ,, use fender rhodes. Its pretty well my go to piano sound these days. It seems to slide into the mix with out butting heads . We host a jam night as a band and I do run across a few really monster piano players whe sit in. They are great on their own , they tend to cut up the band by being way to busy in the mix. Its sad to hear a really talented player work his ass off to have little or no positive effect on what the band is doing. Its like they are almost working against the band. As for the hammond ,, listen to alot of music and I think you will find that as has been said less is more. Its more about being in the mix at the right level and sonic range than really how fancy you are. The leslie function is your friend.

[soundwave106]

 

Another piano player. I guess I'd love a magic answer, too. What I think I know is: 1) you can't play too little 2) much of Hammond is the art of noise 3) the Leslie is at least as important to Hammond as the sustain pedal is to piano

 

 

All of this depends on the style. The B3 player for Counting Crows, for instance, mostly contributed tastefully low volume, not very loud, sustained chords that filled out Counting Crows songs. The same guy contributed B3 to a Cracker album; in that case, up went the drive and up went the art of noise, because Cracker's a louder band. Blues / Southern rock can be soft and soulful (where the Hammond can play the same role it does in blues, perhaps even being a solo instrument at times) or it can be very loud.

 

So this much I know. But I'm primarily a piano player, too, and a rocker; comping techniques for, say, jazz, are a mystery to me.

[pogo97]

 

... Its sad to hear a really talented player work his ass off to have little or no positive effect on what the band is doing. Its like they are almost working against the band. ...

 

 

poor bastards are probably just trying to hear themselves

[Gribs]

 

I have found that a regular acoustic piano tends to fall in the same sonic range as the guitars in my band and comes out awkward.

 

 

This is a great and educational thread!

 

When playing jazz guitar in stage bands or musical pit bands in my younger days, which is mostly comping, the band leader would instruct me to work with the piano player to make sure we were not overlapping octaves too much. The solution was for me to play near or above the 12th fret and to use chord extensions on the 6th string when possible.

 

The Polish prog rock band Riverside has some nice sounding Hammond in their most recent CD. I am not sure if it is true tone wheel on the recordings as live videos show the keyboardist with one of the digital versions.

[pogo97]

 

The solution was for me to play near or above the 12th fret and to use chord extensions on the 6th string when possible.

 

 

I wish more guitar players knew that. Guitar can sound very nice up there but it's not the piano's best range, certainly for combo work. Symbiosis and all that.

[Synthaholic]

I offer these videos because this is an organ thread, and she is a MONSTER! What a foot! And her comping ain't bad, either!

 

 

[video=youtube;60ut7yIuCEY]

 

[video=youtube;WholfTUYs1w]

 

[video=youtube;ZqSBKZzCrM0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqSBKZzCrM0

[pogo97]

Yeah, lately country seems to have 'discovered' Hammond. I'm glad I wasn't listening. I usually change the channel at "The Girl From Ipanema".

 

Country music has a grand tradition of co-opting the music of a generation ago. For a while in the 90s you couldn't tell country from Bob Seeger except for the accent.

 

I know that version of Ipanema. It's the wrong version... in so many ways. This is the right version. Hard to believe nowadays, but at the time the second verse entry of Astrud Gilberto with her naive delivery and entire lack of vibrato would have blown your ears off.

[Synthaholic]

 

Country music has a grand tradition of co-opting the music of a generation ago. For a while in the 90s you couldn't tell country from Bob Seeger except for the accent. I know that version of Ipanema. It's the wrong version... in so many ways. This is the right version. Hard to believe nowadays, but at the time the second verse entry of Astrud Gilberto with her naive delivery and entire lack of vibrato would have blown your ears off.

 

 

She spoke no English, and learned the lyrics phonetically. That accounts for some of her sound and delivery. And she actually fell into singing it by accident, although I've forgotten the exact details. Also, as great a musician as Getz was, he was just as great of an asshole, and treated her very badly during their romance and years together.

[Plink Floyd]

I also 'go to' the Rhodes/Wurly sounds. I just never seem to achieve inspirement from noodling at the parlor piano. I'ts just harder to proficiently play acoustic piano than organ or Rhodes, imo. I think the reason why organ is easier is the fact that your left hand isn't tasked with comping and bass.

 

Of course, that applies to small groups of three or less, like organ/piano with guitar & drums. I'm not good enough to hold my own in that realm; those guys are really comping themselves. Except for a few weddings, I've never played 'out' in any band with less than keys, bass, drums, and one or two guitars.

[Plink Floyd]

And it's not necessary to apologize for posting Barbara D. vids. She's awsum.

 

And I think us yanks don't get enough vibraphone in our diets:

 

[video=youtube;p5Z11obllEQ]

 

[Gribs]

These days that which is called "country" music is pretty much the same as what we used to call "Southern Rock" or "Folk Rock" in the 70's and early 80's (though some are probably more aptly called CA rock or TX blues rock or something like that). I gave up paying attention to pigeon-holing genres a long time ago and just listen to music and find stuff I like. Band names that fly out of my head are CSN*, Neil Young*, Buffalo Springfield, Poco, Skynard, Allman Brothers / Greg Allman*, Doobies** (more CA rock), Eagles, Charlie Daniels, Stevie Ray Vaughn**, Fabulous Thunderbirds*, Molly Hatchet*, Point Blank*, ZZ Top, Greatful Dead*, Bob Dylan* and others (one asterisk for each time I have seen live).