Members wheresgrant3 Posted March 16, 2012 Members Share Posted March 16, 2012 I was just tried purchasing a Fantom XA on CL. I thought I had scored a great deal... $400. The seller has been out of work a year and desperately needed the cash. The sellers hadn't used it in over a year and doesn't even play keyboards. The seller didn't have an amp and I didn't bring headphones. We met in a parking lot between both of us. It looks in almost brand new condition... very clean and had the original box and discs. Still I made the big mistake of not scrolling through the patches before handing him $400. I got it home, powered it up and it's producing distorted, unstable sound audio. This unit is unplayable. I immediately contacted the seller and he apologized and claimed he did not know that it was not in complete working order. The last time it had been used was about 1 year ago. He is happy to to refund my money and he apologized for any inconvenience. [video=youtube;E52N0qJaYd8] I can chalk this up to a frequent Roland issue. See I've had this happen before... http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?2175430-Fantom-S-Some-MFX-or-control-setting-is-driving-my-patches-crazy&highlight=fantom+s+volume+pot I owned a Roland Fantom S a few years back these was doing something very similar. Whenever I would strike the keys aggressively I would get a squelching sound. It was hard to replicate and I turned it in to a repair center it sat for months until the tech could finally trigger it. It turned out to be a faulty volume pot, and all of the real time controllers needed replacement... I can't tie money up that long with a board I can't use. I am meeting the buyer tomorrow to return the keyboard but I feel a little bad for him. He really needed the money and this unit is pristine. The volume knob ahas a little wobble. All I can figure is that he either nudged it slightly OR it's just age. This is exactly why I didn't want to buy NEW a Juno Di or GI... I don't really trust Roland's quality these days. It could be a bad solder point on the output section (sounds terrible with headphones as well). The worst would be defective ROM.... but my guess is it has to do with the volume section as midi functions fine and the same issue cannot be consistently replicated on the same keys? What are the odds that two boards, different models have nearly the same issues... except that they share the same defective potimeters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zzzxtreme Posted March 16, 2012 Members Share Posted March 16, 2012 I also get potimeters problems with vsynth, the technician claims it was common in rolands. I don't know...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wheresgrant3 Posted March 16, 2012 Author Members Share Posted March 16, 2012 I also get potimeters problems with vsynth, the technician claims it was common in rolands. I don't know...... I was reading on Roland Clan Forums that the vol potimeters in all the Fantoms through S-X are knowingly defective. Considered almost disposable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members McHale Posted March 16, 2012 Members Share Posted March 16, 2012 NOW you understand one of the reasons I don't like Roland. They use cheap pots and buttons and have since the mid 80's. That being said, you can test easily if it's the pot or not. If so, I'd upgrade the easily replaceable parts like pots, switches, buttons, etc. and you'd have a good synth that will last a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MuzikB Posted March 16, 2012 Members Share Posted March 16, 2012 Roland has gone to piss! The only thing that can save them is a Jupiter-60 and pray they don't screw it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members McHale Posted March 16, 2012 Members Share Posted March 16, 2012 Roland has gone to piss! The only thing that can save them is a Jupiter-60 and pray they don't screw it up. I used to love Roland gear (the old stuff) but they decided to cut corners on the things that people don't notice while raising prices. I've always thought since the digital synths came out that Roland synths sounded thin at times but that never bothered me nearly as much as the cutting corners part. It's going to take a long time for them to regain the popularity and trust they once had. I'm not even sure if they care though since all the hip hoppers are buying their gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wheresgrant3 Posted March 16, 2012 Author Members Share Posted March 16, 2012 NOW you understand one of the reasons I don't like Roland. They use cheap pots and buttons and have since the mid 80's. That being said, you can test easily if it's the pot or not. If so, I'd upgrade the easily replaceable parts like pots, switches, buttons, etc. and you'd have a good synth that will last a long time. I'll agree to an extent. My Roland XP30 is 13 years old and some buttons require a few pushes to engage the features. But my god I've gigged over a decade in all sorts of environments with that little tank. And it still holds up... it just needs a good cleaning. My Triton LE on the other hand began falling apart two years after purchase. Buttons began flaking, dead keys, memory corruption issues and some weird sound issues when gigging in older rooms with bad power. My Triton Extreme's volume pot flaked (it's a carbon filter had ripped) 5 years after purchase. When the technician opened the unit to replace it, the wiring to the touchscreen distnergrated (in his words). I just think they don't build synths like they used too. Sans some Triton Classics, M1's, D-50's, DX7's were all built like tanks. In fact I'm often surprised at seeing a 2nd tier touring band from yesteryear (like Styx, Reo Speedwagon,) who have old DX7's on stage as midi controllers... #1- they are almost indestructible, #2- they are cheap... #3- they can be found in abundance in pawn shops across the US. Back on topic... this is a {censored}ty problem with Roland. I agree I should stock up on these parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zzzxtreme Posted March 16, 2012 Members Share Posted March 16, 2012 i don't want to claim it's roland's issue, but I've never had problems with M1, SY85, SY77, 01,wavestation, everything still works perfectly, but XP80 and RD600, all sorts of issues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mediterranean Posted March 16, 2012 Members Share Posted March 16, 2012 Look at the bright side, Grant: you've got the only Fantom Xa in the world that produces an entirely different sound. Some patches are even unique! lol Seriously though, I am sure Roland will fix it for free [that is, if the seller didn't do something weird to it, like leaving it exposed to sunlight/other electrical devices for a very long time and stuff like that. Who knows]. And Roland *will* know if the unit was defective as it exited the factory or if something happened to it *after* it was shipped to resellers. Also, check the OS version. The latest is 1.05. It resolves USB storage issues and a timing issue with the sequencer. It's unlikely it will solve the problem but who the hell knows. Go here and click on the "Downloads" tab. It's there. http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.php?ProductId=649 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zzzxtreme Posted March 16, 2012 Members Share Posted March 16, 2012 I wonder if you get same issue if MIDI controlled via another keyboard, or playback the demo, or some midi files Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mediterranean Posted March 16, 2012 Members Share Posted March 16, 2012 I wonder if you get same issue if MIDI controlled via another keyboard, or playback the demo, or some midi files Excellent point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sir Cecil Figg Posted March 16, 2012 Members Share Posted March 16, 2012 Sorry about the issues with the audio. That was a good price if it had worked. My two RS-series Rolands are rock solid. I miss my RS-9 back home. 88 keys 23 pounds, 5 knobs? I love that synth. Why did Roland everdrop that idea, inexpensive, lightweight synths with 88 keys? My AC60 amp is superb. My next synth will be a Roland. Maybe a Juno Stage. I like the 5 knobs and the on-board audio player. I think Rolands are over-priced relative to Korg. But I've had more problems with the Korgs I've owned than with the Rolands I've owned. Two out of 4 Korgs had screen problems. I've never had a problem with my Roland gear. Roland stuff is easy to use. I just wish Roland had KARMA. I'd never buy another brand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bdub Posted March 16, 2012 Members Share Posted March 16, 2012 ....and let the Roland bashing begin, featuring the usual suspects... *Never* buy anything without testing it. 30 years of owning plenty of Roland keyboards and I've never had a single problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members McHale Posted March 16, 2012 Members Share Posted March 16, 2012 30 years of owning plenty of Roland keyboards and I've never had a single problem. I had two brand new Roland controllers bad out of the box 2 years ago. I've used nothing but Korg gear since the mid-80's and 100% of it still works as if it were new... I'm not gentle with any of it. But as far as Roland digital synths (as stated above), they stopped using good components and they have a high failure rate. I've torn them apart and referenced checked parts. That's not bashing, that's fact. -Mc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChristianRock Posted March 16, 2012 Members Share Posted March 16, 2012 That's why Yamaha sells more workstations than all of them. They don't have the most features, and do the minimum acceptable in some areas... but boy, their stuff is built well. Even the cheaper stuff. The only synth I've had that I've had to fix was my Roland D-550. And guess what it was? The output OP amps gave up the ghost and all I got was horrible noise. But at least those lasted over 20 years... I don't have any Rolands anymore but never say never. One synth I'm curious about is the JX-8P which can still be had for cheap and oooohhhh those strings and EPs. Oh and I've recently parted ways with the Alesis Fusion, those also had noise issues, but they had to do with their volume pots. Mine was no exception - as long as I stayed under the 3pm mark I was usually fine. After that it was crackling hell (only when you moved it though...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sir Cecil Figg Posted March 16, 2012 Members Share Posted March 16, 2012 I've owned 4 Korgs, 2 Yamahas, 3 Rolands & 3 Kawais over the years. Of all, probably the Kawais & the Rolands were the most durable. The K1's are indestructable. I still use one every day. I think Korg gives you the most for your money. And I like the architecture. I've had screen problems on two Korgs. But I stay with Korg because it was visionary enough to integrate Stephen Kay's invention into its top synths. Yamaha or Roland would have never done that. When Yamaha ditched XG, I really lost any reason to use Yamaha. But I still have a couple of modules I use. One is giving me problems. Still, Roland makes some really good gear. And I'm very partial to the OS and to the sound. I think a Juno would be a great controller for my M3m. I just wish there was a light-weight 88 key Juno. I really miss my old RS-9. What a beautiful synth. That's probably my favorite synth I've ever owned. I have real nostalgia for that board. She's waiting for me back in the States. I loved everything about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChristianRock Posted March 16, 2012 Members Share Posted March 16, 2012 Sir Cecil, Juno Stages are 76-keys, have a very good keybed, and the quality of the boards is supposedly much better than any other Juno. And they're actually affordable in the used market - even though they were overpriced when they came out. In lieu of 88 lighter keys, this could be the next best thing They were like 1500 new a couple years ago and one just sold on Ebay for 530 dollars - with a stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wheresgrant3 Posted March 16, 2012 Author Members Share Posted March 16, 2012 Last night I midi in with another controller and the same issue occurs. I also Midi'd out to another synth and the there were no performance issues. In fact the keyboard still has that 'sheen' of new plastic on the keys. All the knobs are tight and buttons are clickable. The volume knob has a slight waver to it... meaning it could have been nudged... or breathed to heavily on. I thought about it last night... as disappointed as I could be with this failing immediately I generally feel bad for the seller. He's not a musician, he paid $1400 6 years ago and was willing to take $400 for this board to pay bills. He was very apologetic last night and this morning, and very forthcoming with his address and willingness to meet to return my money. So I've agreed to wait this out with him. He's going to meet with me to return my cash however I've agreed to get this to a repair center to have the pots replaced. I've called the nearest one and it's a 9 day wait just to get on the bench. If it is just an issue with the pots I've agreed to pay for the repair and still buy the board. $450-500 for a barely used Fantom Xa? Still a good deal. If it is a more expensive deal like ROM or PCB replacement, the deal is off and he'll have to decide how much to spend. This guy has no clue about synths in general, how they work, what could be wrong. I believe him when he said the last time he played it, it was fine a year ago. Why would he be willing to return my money, and allow me to keep the board for repair if he was knowingly looking to cheat me. BTW... I expected (based on reviews) to hate this keybed. Not nearly as terrible as the old Triton LE's. Springy... no pressure sensitive nor after touch... but decent enough for what I plan to use it for (basslines, chords) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wheresgrant3 Posted March 16, 2012 Author Members Share Posted March 16, 2012 . And Roland *will* know if the unit was defective as it exited the factory or if something happened to it *after* it was shipped to resellers.Also, check the OS version. The latest is 1.05. It resolves USB storage issues and a timing issue with the sequencer. It's unlikely it will solve the problem but who the hell knows.http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.php?ProductId=649 Do you think Roland will repair this for free? I'd explore it if I thought there was a chance, but honestly the warranty for parts on this expired 5-6 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mediterranean Posted March 17, 2012 Members Share Posted March 17, 2012 Do you think Roland will repair this for free? I'd explore it if I thought there was a chance, but honestly the warranty for parts on this expired 5-6 years ago. I would assume if it's a manufacturing defect/bug, they would be responsible for the repair cost. If the problem was caused by some kind of maltreatment/carelessness by the guy who sold to you, it's obvious the manufacturer won't cover the cost. I contacted Canon once to see if they could fix my camera when it suddenly started exhibiting a weird problem [photos had purple vertical lines in them]. It was a software problem [beyond my control]. The camera was in excellent condition physically. But it was out of warranty. I shipped it to them for free, they fixed it for free, and shipped back to me for free. Guess when I bought the camera? in 2004. Guess when I shipped it to them for repair? In 2010 I know it's a different company and a different type of product, but I am certain that all big manufacturing names, including Roland, provide the same type of support. It's for their best interest because consumers will look elsewhere otherwise. The video you recorded is perfect for showing it to Roland technical support. You should contact them first before you do anything else. It won't cost a thing to find out what they have to say:) By the way, I listened to that synth's factory demos on the Roland website and they sound fantastic. I hope you'll be able to have it repaired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Caligvla Posted March 20, 2012 Members Share Posted March 20, 2012 I was reading on Roland Clan Forums that the vol potimeters in all the Fantoms through S-X are knowingly defective. Considered almost disposable. My Fantom-X7 behaves and looks exactly the same as Day One ... Sorry to hear the Xa didn't work out ... (Definitely the Triton Le -- along with Juno-G -- of the Fantom range ... sorry to say ... I originally bought one but had to flagship it due to the mere 61 keys, lack of aftertouch, pads, big screen, better and more numerous outputs, more sequencing features, superior build quality, more and better sounds as well as four-slot SRX expansion that made the extra money well worth it ... I still use it on average five days a week ... I know you gig so many of these extra features aren't worth it but the better build quality is essential for me ... ) Did you do a Factory Reset ... ??? Sample internal sounds and export wav files to computer to see if its a problem with the sound engine or just the outputs ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wheresgrant3 Posted March 20, 2012 Author Members Share Posted March 20, 2012 Did you do a Factory Reset ... ??? Sample internal sounds and export wav files to computer to see if its a problem with the sound engine or just the outputs ... Yup... it on the video. Also midi'd it up to external keys and sound sources. I haven't exported wav sounds. I'll try that. It's headed to the shop tomorrow. I did finally get an email from Roland suggesting to send to their Repair center in LA. Anyone ever do that? The cost of boxing and shipping both ways would be close to $100 I imagine. I can't see if it would really be a faster turnaround that using a regional contracted repair? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GigMan Posted March 20, 2012 Members Share Posted March 20, 2012 BTW... I expected (based on reviews) to hate this keybed. Not nearly as terrible as the old Triton LE's. Springy... no pressure sensitive nor after touch... but decent enough for what I plan to use it for (basslines, chords) YES - I'm still playing/loving the sounds of but HATING the FEEL of my Triton Le, Grant! - - I bought the TLe new at Victor's House of Music in Paramus, NJ (which got bought out by Guitar Wanker a while back) - in July 2002, so the damn thing is almost 10 years old! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mediterranean Posted March 20, 2012 Members Share Posted March 20, 2012 Grant, One thing I don't think you have done yet to troubleshoot things is use your headphones. If the sound that comes out of the headphone jack is perfectly normal, then it has to be the physical outputs on the back, not the sound engine. If the headphone jack makes the same weird sound, then the likelihood that it is faulty electronics, somewhere inside, is very high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GigMan Posted March 20, 2012 Members Share Posted March 20, 2012 Grant, One thing I don't think you have done yet to troubleshoot things is use your headphones. If the sound that comes out of the headphone jack is perfectly normal, then it has to be the physical outputs on the back, not the sound engine. If the headphone jack makes the same weird sound, then the likelihood that it is faulty electronics, somewhere inside, is very high. ^ THAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.