Members lewzer Posted June 13, 2007 Members Share Posted June 13, 2007 I rushed into a guitar store about 15 min. before they closed and noticed a small old Harmony amp sitting there. I asked about it and they dated to the 60's. It has one volume knob and a 6-inch speaker, he said it was around 15 watts but I want to say it is about 5 because it's really not very loud at all. After playing through it for a few minutes, it sounded AMAZING! I have a Vibro-Champ already and my intial impressions want to say it gives the Champ a run for it's money. When I asked for his price, he said $200. Is that a fair price or do they go for much lower/higher? I know the model number would be helpful, but I forgot what it is. I'm going back tomorrow with my Gordon Smith to test er some more and possibly bring it home with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mc5nrg Posted June 13, 2007 Members Share Posted June 13, 2007 Not enough information.What tubes are in it?A lot of Harmony amps are series heater/acdc/transformerless/widowmaker designs that lack a power transformer and power the tubes directlly from the AC.Look for unusual tubes whose numbers add up to approaching 115 and a 50C5 power tube.These amps can be electrically hot depending on how you plug in the plug.Fine if you do not complete the circuit -possible electrocution if you do.Sometimes they have a built in isolation transformer that makes them safe to use but not always. I've got a few series heater amps (Kay and Harmony) and have managed not to fry myself but am always careful about what I touch when I also have my fingers on the strings since I go back to the days of polarity switches .(Basic rules include don't touch another guitar's strings,metal parts etc while holding your strings, take care with mikes,don't play barefoot outdoors or on concrete basements,don't grab water pipes with your hand on the strings etc.-good rules to follow even with properly grounded amps as electronics can {censored} up.) I can't tell what you saw from your post.Maybe its a more upscale amp with a power transformer and 5Y3/12ax7/6V6 tube complement.If its a series heater amp $200 is way too much, even if they are sold to ignorant folks for real $ on fleabay.Series heater amps can be great fun for low volume distortion tones but be forewarned.The H303 series are series heater, some versions have an iso transformer, some may not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lewzer Posted June 13, 2007 Author Members Share Posted June 13, 2007 Thanks for all the information, and sorry I didn't have enough. I think he mentioned a 12ax7 tube, he said one was familiar and the other wasn't so familiar. I'll check it out again today and try to work on the price a little bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bowie Posted June 14, 2007 Members Share Posted June 14, 2007 It's just a little on the high side but if you love the tone then who gives a F what it costs. I have a similar amp to yours that uses larger tubes. I paid $100 for it in cherry condition but I wouldn't let it go for less than $250 cause I love the hell outa it. You sould offer him $170 out the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lewzer Posted June 14, 2007 Author Members Share Posted June 14, 2007 I checked back in today. It is the Harmony H303A, if that helps. I still loved the tone of it but I didn't really want to throw down $200 for it. He said that price was the best he could do, but I still may check back in there Monday if he still has it. If not, oh well, I still have my Vibro Champ. I would love to run my Champ at the same time with this Harmony amp with my Whirlwind A/B:cool: ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members strangedogs Posted June 14, 2007 Members Share Posted June 14, 2007 I've started buying old tube amps as they are going higher and higher in price... I wish I had about $10 Grand to invest - my 3 have increased by 2 or 3 times in the past 2 years. My Avatar is a 1963 Ace Tone Fuetto - I paid $270 on Ebay and have been offered $600. My old Multivox was $81 about 2 years ago on Ebay... the last one like it went for $250 about a month ago. n old Harmony is a great investment and tone is something that'll always be sought after! A new amp decreases in value when you leave the store - a classic 60's amp increases year after year. all of my old tubers have tone to die for - my Ace Tone has Tremelo and Reverb and my old 5-watt Multivox has tremelo and has a PLEXI SQUAWK when cranked up. I also have an old Silvertone that sounds like butter. Grab that old Harmony - within a year or 2 it'll DOUBLE in value - I guarantee it as suddenly every kid out there wants an old tube amp... Check out this baby: http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Multivox-Premier-Twin-8-Amplifier_W0QQitemZ200117240097QQihZ010QQcategoryZ118983QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem I almost bought it's twin sister about 2 years ago for $160 - but didn't - and it was 100% operative and looked like new ;( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lewzer Posted June 15, 2007 Author Members Share Posted June 15, 2007 Thanks for the info. I'll probably try to test it out if it's still there Monday and make a final decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mc5nrg Posted June 15, 2007 Members Share Posted June 15, 2007 Look feel free to spend your cash the way you want. However, series heater amps are in no way comparable to something like a Champ or an amp with actual transformers.Essentially they are bottom of the line junk based on the design of the 5 tube radios of the time which didn't have the same potential for electrocution as they didn't involve potentially electrically live/hot guitar strings. I have a Harmony 303B...some of these 303 types have iso transformers ,some don't.Plugging a series heater amp without an isolation transformer into an a/b box that connects to another electrc appliance could be quite the electrifying experience.While a 303 has some use as a low volume distortion amp, no way would I pay $200 for one, especially considering the hazards.Also whatever you do, don't sit on it. Collecting old tube amps is fun and potentially lucrative but run some of the terms series heater amp/widowmaker amp/acdc amplifier/transformerless amps through search engines and boards like alt.guitar.amps before you go sinking real money into these things.There are plenty of amps to collect that are much less likely to electrocute the user.Note use of the term electrocute NOT shock. By the way the tubes in my Harmony 303B are a 12AU6, 50C5 and 35W4. 12AU6 and 12AX7 are not interchangeable or substitutes.I got my Harmony essentially for free for about $20 that I got for an old lamp I trashpicked and have similar amounts in the 2 other Kay and Harmony series heater amps I have.By contrast over the past year or so I copped a Roland Bolt 60 (60 watt/ch sw/tube power amp) for $125 from the evil empire/GC and a Marshall JTM 30 combo for the same figure off of CL. I strongly advise against dumping $200 into a piece of junk amp that has the potential to kill you . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members silverfacechamp Posted June 15, 2007 Members Share Posted June 15, 2007 I checked back in today. It is the Harmony H303A, if that helps. I still loved the tone of it but I didn't really want to throw down $200 for it. He said that price was the best he could do, but I still may check back in there Monday if he still has it. If not, oh well, I still have my Vibro Champ. I would love to run my Champ at the same time with this Harmony amp with my Whirlwind A/B:cool: ..... I have an H400 in pretty nice shape that I snagged off a late night eBay Buy it Now for $10 because 'it didn't work.' Turns out it was a bad cap. $12 later and I have a pretty cool little amp. I know they go for a fair bit of money, but $170 is silverface Champ territory which, IMO, is a better amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lewzer Posted June 16, 2007 Author Members Share Posted June 16, 2007 Well.. I decided to buy it. Looks like I spent way to much for it, according to mc5nrg, but I really loved the tone of it. First thing I'm going to do is change the cord to the 3-prong. Am I still running serious risk of electrocution then? I would like to run it through Whirlwind A/B switch but I definitely won't do that at least until I have a 3 prong cord. Till then, what percautions should I make before I even try to play it in my apartment? I know I won't put any effects through it, but what else should I do? Thanks for all the help guys, especially mc5nrg, who seems to know a lot about this stuff. I wish I wouldn't have spent so much, but I like I said, I love the way it sounds. The Harmony, the Champ, and the Gordon Smith SG The Champ and the Harmony ..and a shot from the rear.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ron Burgandy Posted June 16, 2007 Members Share Posted June 16, 2007 Cool I found one on ebay, a single EL84 sucker with tremolo for $80 a few years back. The stock 10" speaker sucked, but a $40 ebay'ed celestion later and it was wailing the blues. Good buy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lewzer Posted June 16, 2007 Author Members Share Posted June 16, 2007 So I've done some research. I've read that amps like these need Isolation Transformers to avoid sending 115V to the strings. I looked at the schematic inside the amp and it already shows an isolation transformer in the circtuit along with an output transformer. Does that mean I'm safe or is there more I need to look into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6942 Posted June 16, 2007 Members Share Posted June 16, 2007 I bought an old isolation Xformer for my 1965 Harmony H400 electric chair/tube amp. Sound real nice with it's 8" Jensen Special Design Alnico speaker.It's not very loud....but it sure is sweet! Steve:thu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lewzer Posted June 16, 2007 Author Members Share Posted June 16, 2007 I see, but the schematic already lists an isolation transformer for the H303A that I have, so am I safe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrmax Posted June 17, 2007 Members Share Posted June 17, 2007 I own 3 old Harmony amps. I bought a 1958 H306 out of Vintage Guitar. It was advertised with a P12R Jensen(that was the big selling point). The ad & salesman said that the amp /speaker combination "Really ,Really sounds good ,we were just playing it yesterday kinda hate to sell it".I bought it over the phone (credit card).When it arrived I unpacked it , retubed it (mouth drooling uncontrollably) turned it on ...it sounded like ...crap. I was pissed $249 + shipping and this is what I get! I took it to my repair guy. He says" I've got good news & bad news for you... here's the bad news , the speaker is blown. the transformer is a replacement not original (feeling totally ripped off). The original transformer must've blown while the amp was new ...the replacement transformer they put in is a Triad (59 Bassman Transformer ser # 8087) & also there a guy here who is willing to offer you $300 for the amp as is" ,needless to say I kept the amp, sold the speaker (don't like re cones) put in a new Green Back & felt great! Maybe that amp really did sound great when it was being played in the store. One thing that I've learned is that speakers & tubes sound better than ever ...right before they blow! Everyone that hears that amp wants to buy it...aint' gonna happen! :thu: :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thespeakerdude8 Posted June 22, 2007 Members Share Posted June 22, 2007 Hi! I just wanted to tell you from the standpoint of someone who builds tube amps as a hobby/business, I have actually cloned the H303A and it is one darned good sounding amp. For those who don't know, the H303--A-- DOES HAVE a built in isolation transformer! In fact, it isn't an isolation transformer per se, it is really a regular power transformer, with a 120v primary, 120v secondary, and 48v tap for the heaters. It fully isolates the amp from the line and is perfectly safe to use. HOWEVER! Others on this thread are right about MOST 50c5 ( and the like) powered amps. Any amp you see that has a 50c5, 12a*6 and 35w4 is something to be cautious about, because MOST do not have a power transformer, and the ground on the chassis is basically connected through a capacitor (which , over time, dry up and short)to your wall socket ( 120v ). As for the price you paid? It might have been a bit much, but some have been going on ebay for $100-$140, so it all adds up to if you wanted the tone badly enough. For instance: I bought a Squier 'Tele Special over a real one because it was cheap, but it had a certain 'vibe' to it when I picked it up that just fit me. $250 later after some mods I have a great guitar that blows away any squier and has its own unique tone which runs along up there with the big ones. Anyways, rest assured your amp is safe to use. If anyone has any questions about these cheap old amps from the 60's powered by AA5 tubes, this is a great site to check out :http://www.schematicheaven.com/bargainbin.htm. http://www.schematicheaven.com/bargainbin/harmony_h303a.pdf Here is a schematic of the H303A ( note R4 should go to "B" and not ground). ~TSD88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lewzer Posted June 22, 2007 Author Members Share Posted June 22, 2007 Hi! I just wanted to tell you from the standpoint of someone who builds tube amps as a hobby/business, I have actually cloned the H303A and it is one darned good sounding amp. For those who don't know, the H303--A-- DOES HAVE a built in isolation transformer! In fact, it isn't an isolation transformer per se, it is really a regular power transformer, with a 120v primary, 120v secondary, and 48v tap for the heaters. It fully isolates the amp from the line and is perfectly safe to use. HOWEVER! Others on this thread are right about MOST 50c5 ( and the like) powered amps. Any amp you see that has a 50c5, 12a*6 and 35w4 is something to be cautious about, because MOST do not have a power transformer, and the ground on the chassis is basically connected through a capacitor (which , over time, dry up and short)to your wall socket ( 120v ). As for the price you paid? It might have been a bit much, but some have been going on ebay for $100-$140, so it all adds up to if you wanted the tone badly enough. For instance: I bought a Squier 'Tele Special over a real one because it was cheap, but it had a certain 'vibe' to it when I picked it up that just fit me. $250 later after some mods I have a great guitar that blows away any squier and has its own unique tone which runs along up there with the big ones. Anyways, rest assured your amp is safe to use. If anyone has any questions about these cheap old amps from the 60's powered by AA5 tubes, this is a great site to check out : http://www.schematicheaven.com/bargainbin.htm. http://www.schematicheaven.com/bargainbin/harmony_h303a.pdf Here is a schematic of the H303A ( note R4 should go to "B" and not ground). ~TSD88 Nice:thu: Thanks for all of that info. I guess I should still go ahead and swap the cord to a 3 prong just to be safe, right?? Anyways I'm sure I paid a little more than I should have for it, but I'm really loving the tone of it. There's plenty difference between this and the Vibro Champ to warrant the purchase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GreaserMatt Posted April 20, 2009 Members Share Posted April 20, 2009 Sorry to post in this old thread, but can you use a 35c5 to power one of thes amps in place of a 50c5??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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