Solid State vs. Tube question

[Weathered]

i know, but the whole solid state vs tube thing gets old as {censored} when you're on these boards every day and the argument goes on and on and on and onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn {censored} ME IT GETS ANNOYING

 

 

I've got an idea - don't click on the {censored}ing thread. /discussion

[chrispsullivan]

no, i did... it's just a continual stream of whiny bull{censored}... OP: do you have any other technical questions before your thread is entirely taken over by dumb bs?

 

 

you're a pretty big complainer for someone who calls other people out on whiny bull{censored}

[chrispsullivan]

I've got an idea - don't click on the {censored}ing thread. /discussion

 

 

i know

didn't i already state that my post was based on the title? and that it was my own fault for being to lazy to respond to the actual question?

 

i didn't mean to offend anyone here

[Weathered]

you're a pretty big complainer for someone who calls other people out on whiny bull{censored}

 

 

Chris - for once and for all - shut the {censored} up.

 

This was an actual ON TOPIC discussion, and you came in to bitch about the question that hasn't been asked half as many times as "how many ohms?". Back out and leave people to have a reasonable discussion.

[chrispsullivan]

Chris - for once and for all - shut the {censored} up. This was an actual ON TOPIC discussion, and you came in to bitch about the question that hasn't been asked half as many times as "how many ohms?". Back out and leave people to have a reasonable discussion.

 

 

dude give me a {censored}ing break, i already admitted that i was hasty in my post

I'M {censored}ING SORRY

 

jesus christ

[Honky-Tonk]

well looks like a few people tried to answer my question. Wasn't trying to start a battle here, just wanted to curb my appetite for relatively useless information.

Maybe I should have titled this thread, "Go away if you are anal one way or the other about tube vs. solid state amps."

[mseriously30]

well looks like a few people tried to answer my question. Wasn't trying to start a battle here, just wanted to curb my appetite for relatively useless information. Maybe I should have titled this thread, "Go away if you are anal one way or the other about tube vs. solid state amps."

 

 

No battles, but I think I understand what you're asking...so basically what you're describing is kind of like using a SS amp as a power amp right?

[knucklefux]

NIK was right, weathered seconded, i'm third.

[mseriously30]

not ONE person has ever - EVER - listened my music and asked whether it was tube or solid state. Or if I was using an amp modeler(in fact, ALL my songs have been done with an amp modeler). ... or what brand my effects pedals were...

 

 

I'd venture to say they don't ask you about your gear because your sound is {censored}e. GTFO.

 

I actually want to get a solid answer on this topic.

[Weathered]

I'd venture to say they don't ask you about your gear because your sound is {censored}e. GTFO. I actually want to get a solid answer on this topic.

I love double teaming the morons.

What Nik said is pretty much right on.

[exposeenmity]

well looks like a few people tried to answer my question. Wasn't trying to start a battle here, just wanted to curb my appetite for relatively useless information. Maybe I should have titled this thread, "Go away if you are anal one way or the other about tube vs. solid state amps."

Which is probably about 90% of this board.

[Honky-Tonk]

No battles, but I think I understand what you're asking...so basically what you're describing is kind of like using a SS amp as a power amp right?

 

 

I didn't think about it that way, but yeah, I guess that's what i would be doing in such a scenario.

[kinggeoff]

not ONE person has ever - EVER - listened my music and asked whether it was tube or solid state. Or if I was using an amp modeler(in fact, ALL my songs have been done with an amp modeler). ... or what brand my effects pedals were... I have a Monster guitar cable right here - and you know what? It doesn't sound any different than the no-name cheapy cable I've had lying for 4 years now. etc., etc., etc. my point is, we as musicians give ourselves waaaaaaaaaay too much stress over things that DON'T make any appreciable difference. And these 'boo-teek' people have made an industry out of it - right from their spare room or garage... YES - back in 1987 my first amp was solid state and it sounded like buzzy, {censored}-infested CRAP. But technology has progressed, and like it or not, one doesn't HAVE to use tubes to get 'that sound' anymore. People still bitch about 'responsiveness' and that 'only a tube amp will give you that', when a $40 Bad Monkey pedal cleans up either depending on how hard/easy you pick or with volume knob roll-down... *gasp* and so does my DIGITAL POD X3 *double-gasp*

 

It's not quite as simple as that though....

 

sort of like that thread knucklefux made that started with a jet plane question and ended up with chiropractic medicine...

 

What if said equipment, while not making any noticeable difference to the audience or even a noticeable sonic difference at all, makes the player in question more comfortable or confident in their playing. Simply because in their head, they THINK it makes a difference, which may in fact have a positive impact on their playing.

 

Also, aside from notable sonic differences, there are often differences in the FEEL of the sound coming out of the amp in relation to what a player has jsut played on their instrument, which cannot be felt by the audience since they are not the ones playing the instrument

[cryptic1911]

The square wave from the distortion pedal is only from the opamp. from there it would probably go through some tone shaping circuits which would change the shape, and then into your amp and it would get changed slightly there too. It starts off as a square wave, but ends up as a slightly chunky sine wave / square wave hybrid

 

This isnt exact, just a quicky example:

 

it would start off like....______..and end up more like this in the end.

...............................|........|.............................../__

...............................|........|............................./.......

[rlarino]

 

I'd venture to say they don't ask you about your gear because your sound is {censored}e. GTFO.

 

 

 

LOL that was great!

 

care to post a clip for us to check so you can show us that this is not the case? LOL

 

(btw, i don't have any preconceived hatred for amp modelers, i think they are quite good for what they are... i love using amp modelers and have been using them for a long time [i've gone through a fair share of stuff including a johnson millenium, pod, pod xt, guitar rig 2, gearbox, etc...], but after hearing some of the awesome guitar tones that guys were recording on other forums... recordings that were not [iMHO] as good in terms of production or guitar playing as things i had done in the past... i had to go out and get myself a real amp and start recording it mic'd...)

[Bro_ad]

listen here you little n00b {censored} - you might wanna hang around abit before you start running your goddamn mouth. I haven't said a {censored}ing word to you, but you wanna call me out? Who the hell are you? 2 {censored}ing months and you're running the show, eh? This board is about people offering their opinions and sharing widely varying experiences. Whether YOU like it or not doesn't enter into it. This is supposed to enable people to learn more about creating their own music. How the hell can you learn something if you 'know it all' already? asshole.

Ahhhh, showing somemore of that winning attitude. Honestly, I think youre the biggest prick on the boards Ive seen yet. OOOO wow...Im a "nOOb". What difference does that really make? None. I called you out for what you are. I very rarely ever see anything positive coming out of your mouth. I never said I was running the show, but I am here to enjoy the boards, learn new things, and call out a-holes when I see 'em. Congratulations, youre numero uno! Yeah, youre right this board IS about people offering opinions and widely varying experiences. Does this mean you guys need to come off as absolute jerks when its something you disagree with? NO.

As I stated before, if you dont like the topic or the contents inside....KEEP YOUR 'EFFIN MOUTH SHUT AND STAY OUT OF IT! Its that simple. Nobody wants to hear your .02 if its nothing but bitching. But that would keep you pretty quiet.

Good day.

[Rocket Roll]

In case you're still interested, you might want to read a bit about even and odd harmonics (and I excuse myself if I'm telling you something you already know):

 

"...there should be no harmonic content . . . ideally.

 

This would be true were it not for nonlinear components. Nonlinear components draw current disproportionately with respect to the source voltage, causing non-sinusoidal current waveforms. Examples of nonlinear components include gas-discharge lamps, semiconductor power-control devices (diodes, transistors, SCRs, TRIACs), transformers (primary winding magnetization current is usually non-sinusoidal due to the B/H saturation curve of the core), and electric motors (again, when magnetic fields within the motor's core operate near saturation levels). Even incandescent lamps generate slightly nonsinusoidal currents, as the filament resistance changes throughout the cycle due to rapid fluctuations in temperature. As we learned in the mixed-frequency chapter, any distortion of an otherwise sine-wave shaped waveform constitutes the presence of harmonic frequencies."

 

And, to cut to the chase - since there's (apparently) no ideally "clean" signal, tube amps will at least produce more "pleasant" harmonics than SS amps.

 

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_10/7.html

 

http://www.uaudio.com/webzine/2005/october/text/content2.html

[tommythelurker]

Have a holly, jolly Christmas;

It's the best time of the year

I don't know if there'll be snow,

but have a cup of cheer.

Have a holly, jolly Christmas;

And when you walk down the street

Say Hello to friends you know

and everyone you meet.

[Honky-Tonk]

The square wave from the distortion pedal is only from the opamp. from there it would probably go through some tone shaping circuits which would change the shape, and then into your amp and it would get changed slightly there too. It starts off as a square wave, but ends up as a slightly chunky sine wave / square wave hybrid This isnt exact, just a quicky example: it would start off like....______..and end up more like this in the end. ...............................|........|.............................../__ ...............................|........|............................./.......

This is exactly the kind of answer I was looking for.

More Please!

[Honky-Tonk]

In case you're still interested, you might want to read a bit about even and odd harmonics (and I excuse myself if I'm telling you something you already know): "...there should be no harmonic content . . . ideally. This would be true were it not for nonlinear components. Nonlinear components draw current disproportionately with respect to the source voltage, causing non-sinusoidal current waveforms. Examples of nonlinear components include gas-discharge lamps, semiconductor power-control devices (diodes, transistors, SCRs, TRIACs), transformers (primary winding magnetization current is usually non-sinusoidal due to the B/H saturation curve of the core), and electric motors (again, when magnetic fields within the motor's core operate near saturation levels). Even incandescent lamps generate slightly nonsinusoidal currents, as the filament resistance changes throughout the cycle due to rapid fluctuations in temperature. As we learned in the mixed-frequency chapter, any distortion of an otherwise sine-wave shaped waveform constitutes the presence of harmonic frequencies." And, to cut to the chase - since there's (apparently) no ideally "clean" signal, tube amps will at least produce more "pleasant" harmonics than SS amps. http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_10/7.html http://www.uaudio.com/webzine/2005/october/text/content2.html

Wow, that's pretty indepth. I remember reading a little about odd and even harmonics in the article I was reading, may be the same article. I don't understand a lot of that stuff, since I'm not an electrical engineer. But, I get the gist of your post. Thank you and more please!

We need a "over my head" smiley.

[filthy6]

A+ Thread. Would read again.

[The Fury]

EVERYBODY SHUT THE {censored} UP ALREADY!!!

[Nik]

In case you're still interested, you might want to read a bit about even and odd harmonics (and I excuse myself if I'm telling you something you already know): "...there should be no harmonic content . . . ideally. This would be true were it not for nonlinear components. Nonlinear components draw current disproportionately with respect to the source voltage, causing non-sinusoidal current waveforms. Examples of nonlinear components include gas-discharge lamps, semiconductor power-control devices (diodes, transistors, SCRs, TRIACs), transformers (primary winding magnetization current is usually non-sinusoidal due to the B/H saturation curve of the core), and electric motors (again, when magnetic fields within the motor's core operate near saturation levels). Even incandescent lamps generate slightly nonsinusoidal currents, as the filament resistance changes throughout the cycle due to rapid fluctuations in temperature. As we learned in the mixed-frequency chapter, any distortion of an otherwise sine-wave shaped waveform constitutes the presence of harmonic frequencies." And, to cut to the chase - since there's (apparently) no ideally "clean" signal, tube amps will at least produce more "pleasant" harmonics than SS amps. http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_10/7.html http://www.uaudio.com/webzine/2005/october/text/content2.html

 

 

Oh dear.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

[Nik]

This is exactly the kind of answer I was looking for. More Please!

The type of change described is due to the EQ in the amp, not to whether it is solid state or valve based. The tone control on the stomp box will alter the square wave in the same way.

[Rocket Roll]

 

Oh dear. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

 

 

I never stated that I'm an expert...

 

...but I'll quote a bit more info that I find valuable (seeing that it's still in demand). Everyone's welcome to correct me if I'm wrong in thinking that I'm quoting facts:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valve_sound says:

 

"All designs distort to some degree. Some designers... seek a compromise in the nature of "benign" distortion, others in a design that measures well in standard bench tests. In the high end world where sales pressure relative to perceived performance is high, "how it sounds" can have greater importance than how it measures."

 

"One likely cause [why tube amplifiers sound "better"] is the higher levels of 2nd order harmonic distortion, common in single-ended designs resulting from the characteristics of the tube interacting with the inductance of the output transformer."

 

"For many decades tube amps usually modulated the audio signal with the power line frequency and 2x this frequency, producing an array of extra frequency components in the sound. This produces a warmer richer sound, with an impression of greater bass content."

 

Etc.