Members Matter-Eater Lad Posted December 26, 2007 Members Share Posted December 26, 2007 however the Sioux never actually signed away the rights to their lands which makes the treaty illegal and invalid.. Illegal & invalid. The USA is pretty good at those things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mhenson42 Posted December 26, 2007 Members Share Posted December 26, 2007 You are hilarious, and unbelievable deluded about the true history of the Americas. Most europeans didnt even know how to hunt when they got here (Hunting was reserved only for royals in europe). Guess who taught them?Agriculture on north american soils was for the most part a mystery for Europeans as well...guess who taught them. Treaties are made between nations and are internationally recognized as well as still concluded today between nations. "Allowing" one nation to not be enslaved, assimilated or wiped out is not something america deserves a medal for. You need to look up the definition of genocide and contract law. You don't understand my post. I wasn't specifically speaking to the European settlement of the Americas but moreso about the fact that stronger civilizations thrived and grew stornger at the expense of weaker ones who were either wiped out, enslaved or assimilated. In the case of the American Indian, the invading Europeans were a more dominate and a more technologically advanced force and thus were able to take what they wanted. Whether or not certain Indians taught hunting/farming to certain Europeans is not relevant. Obviously the Europeans were more dominant as their decendants now make up the majority population of the US. My point was that throughout history this has occured. I didn't say it wasn't genocide. It certainly was. But its no different than the countless civilizations that have been wiped out of existence and historical record by conquering civiliazations. Today, humans in general are a little more enlightened and don't just take land/resources from others treaty or no treaty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members evhtone Posted December 26, 2007 Members Share Posted December 26, 2007 Funny someone should mention federal tax dollars...shows they are unaware that the feds owe untold billions to the Indians, but claim a fire destroyed the records...a judge recently was prepared to hold the bureau of land management in contempt...obviously that money is being used to kill the natives in Iraq and Israel....same old story...we need a revolution in this country and a restoration of the Constitution. Well, I guess you are right about one thing. It's more the governement's fault than the Indian Tribes'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Keebz Posted December 26, 2007 Members Share Posted December 26, 2007 You want Truth on Russell Means??http://www.aimovement.org/moipr/onrussellmeans.html He's probably the most hated man to the Navajo Nation...He's been responsible for loss of jobs because his AIM fiasco in Shiprock NM (where I grew up) back in the 70's after he led AIM to an armed takeover of a semiconductor plant that led to the company picking up and skipping town forcing hundreds into unemployment (way to go Russ!), and for beating his father-in-law while living on the Navajo Reservation a few years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members utterhack Posted December 26, 2007 Members Share Posted December 26, 2007 There lies the problem, IMO. Native Americans have never been able to fully assimilate. It's something that should have been addressed long ago.The Indians want to hold on to their culture and that is understandable. But it becomes a problem when you want to be your own sovreign nation with your own set of laws WITHIN the boundaries of the US. Of course, the federal government is as much to blame as anyone for allowing Tribal Governments to create their own society within a society.I have spent my whole life on an Indian Reservation and the situation between whites and Indians is getting worse sorry to say. The problem being the Tribe having their own set of laws, not paying income tax like other Minnesota residents, trying to put land into trusts so as to avoid paying property tax, and depending too much on government programs. My county has an Indian-owned casino and had been paying property taxes. That was up until the tribal chairwoman decided to petition the state to put the land the casino was on into a trust. This would allow them to not pay property taxes on said piece of land. That was about $990,000 for the county. Needless to say, the county is broke. Same thing happened with the city we are in. They had been getting $320,000 a year in property taxes. They decided to negotiate with the tribe and ended up settling on $160,000 per year for what was called a 5-year contract with no adjustments for inflation. Do I blame the tribe? NO!!! I blame the idiots on our city council and county comissioners baord for letting this {censored} heppen. The problem is, if you put up any sort of resistence you are labelled a racist.So, my property taxes went up dramatically. As did every other "tax-paying" citizen in our county. My city became so broke that we no longer have a police department. We only have a county sheriff and a few deputies. Of course, the tribe has their own police force which is funded by taxpayers. Actually, they do a really good job in their own right. It's just sad that we had to lose our police department.I could go on and on... Oh boo hoo hoo. "Depending too much on government programs"? That's {censored}ing rich. "Never been able to assimilate"? Why should they? Because it would be convenient for the people now putting Targets all over their land? Native Americans deserve everything they can get. If Whitey McMinnesotan doesn't like it, he's welcome to go back to Norway or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members utterhack Posted December 26, 2007 Members Share Posted December 26, 2007 Obviously the Europeans were more dominant as their decendants now make up the majority population of the US. Game's only in the third quarter, mang. By 2050, hispanics will represent about 24% of the US population, and about 65% of those will be of Mexican heritage. El Indio for the win in OT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mhenson42 Posted December 26, 2007 Members Share Posted December 26, 2007 Game's only in the third quarter, mang. By 2050, hispanics will represent about 24% of the US population, and about 65% of those will be of Mexican heritage. El Indio for the win in OT. lol. I live in San Antonio. We're already there with the Hispanic majority. I'm sick of the man ( or should I say "hombre") keeping me down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members evhtone Posted December 26, 2007 Members Share Posted December 26, 2007 Oh boo hoo hoo. "Depending too much on government programs"? That's {censored}ing rich. "Never been able to assimilate"? Why should they? Because it would be convenient for the people now putting Targets all over their land? Native Americans deserve everything they can get. If Whitey McMinnesotan doesn't like it, he's welcome to go back to Norway or whatever. "Their" land? Here lies the problem, folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members evhtone Posted December 26, 2007 Members Share Posted December 26, 2007 Game's only in the third quarter, mang. By 2050, hispanics will represent about 24% of the US population, and about 65% of those will be of Mexican heritage. El Indio for the win in OT. Oh, I shudder to think... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members utterhack Posted December 27, 2007 Members Share Posted December 27, 2007 "Their" land? Here lies the problem, folks. Oh? Is there a problem? Because I don't see one here. Other than a town that can't pay its own bills without stealing from the red man AGAIN. Maybe the town should get a job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EdgeOfDarkness Posted December 27, 2007 Members Share Posted December 27, 2007 hmm..ever wonder why African Americans never got the deals Indians did ? no taxes...thier own reservations to keep the culture within the culture etc.Were there ever any Indian slaves in the US ? would seem like the thing to do with a conquered people looking back on world history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gooman Posted December 27, 2007 Members Share Posted December 27, 2007 You don't understand my post. I wasn't specifically speaking to the European settlement of the Americas but moreso about the fact that stronger civilizations thrived and grew stornger at the expense of weaker ones who were either wiped out, enslaved or assimilated. In the case of the American Indian, the invading Europeans were a more dominate and a more technologically advanced force and thus were able to take what they wanted. Whether or not certain Indians taught hunting/farming to certain Europeans is not relevant. Obviously the Europeans were more dominant as their decendants now make up the majority population of the US. My point was that throughout history this has occured. I didn't say it wasn't genocide. It certainly was. But its no different than the countless civilizations that have been wiped out of existence and historical record by conquering civiliazations. Today, humans in general are a little more enlightened and don't just take land/resources from others treaty or no treaty. It was actually disease that tipped the scales in favor of europeans...teaching of how to survive and thrive on this continent was not possible without aboriginal intervention when europeans were sick and starving...it is directly relevant - technological advancement was irrelevant. Your first post made it sound like native people are "lucky" to be still in existance because the "good will" of europeans, and not because of the internationally recognized contractual arrangements concluded between nations to share lands and resources. The whole reason the lakota are deciding to rescind their treaty agreement is because one side got everything they wanted and the other side didnt. I think you can do the math. You would think in this day and age people would be more enlightened but ask any aboriginal person if your last statement is true. I see examples to the contrary almost daily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Keebz Posted December 27, 2007 Members Share Posted December 27, 2007 hmm..ever wonder why African Americans never got the deals Indians did ? no taxes...thier own reservations to keep the culture within the culture etc.Were there ever any Indian slaves in the US ? would seem like the thing to do with a conquered people looking back on world history. Well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members noirjp Posted December 27, 2007 Members Share Posted December 27, 2007 It was actually disease that tipped the scales in favor of europeans...teaching of how to survive and thrive on this continent was not possible without aboriginal intervention when europeans were sick and starving...it is directly relevant - technological advancement was irrelevant. Your first post made it sound like native people are "lucky" to be still in existance because the "good will" of europeans, and not because of the internationally recognized contractual arrangements concluded between nations to share lands and resources.The whole reason the lakota are deciding to rescind their treaty agreement is because one side got everything they wanted and the other side didnt. I think you can do the math. You would think in this day and age people would be more enlightened but ask any aboriginal person if your last statement is true. I see examples to the contrary almost daily. Indians are lucky to still be alive and thriving on this continent. Just like Armenians in east Europe. Just like the Jews in the middle east. There have been many genocides in history. There are currently genocidal campaign being waged in Africa. Someone does always end up on top. In the case of the Indians in North America the Europeans did end up on top. Case and point is the United States of America. If there is another civil war in the US that may change yet again. Facts are facts and history can't be rewritten. If the Lakota's believe they can regain some lands by using the legal system in America, more power to them. They might even win. That will just be a continuation of the ongoing struggle and maybe Native Americans will one day be the victors in a bloodless campaign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gooman Posted December 27, 2007 Members Share Posted December 27, 2007 Good lord, you think jews, armenians and native americans are lucky? This gets more ludicrous all the time... In the case of the jews you think the Nazis ended up on top? At least there were people tried and convicted of war crimes....Same to a lesser extent in Africa. Genocide and justice aside, I think all the Lakota are saying is that they are tired of waiting for promises to be fulfilled...not that they feel grateful to have not all been killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members evhtone Posted December 27, 2007 Members Share Posted December 27, 2007 Oh? Is there a problem? Because I don't see one here.Other than a town that can't pay its own bills without stealing from the red man AGAIN. Maybe the town should get a job. This is the funniest, most idiotic post I've ever seen on this board. Do you realize what the unemployment rate is among Natives on the reservation? Do you know that a large majority of the employees at the Indian casino are WHITE? Was that by design? Hell no!! They tried to employ only Indians, but to no avail. Why? Our government keeps giving them everything for free anyway. Why would they want to work? I worked there when it first opened, while I was going to college, and they brought in every Indian they could and most of them were gone within weeks because they were late for work, failed drug tests, etc. Speaking of drugs... Did you know that in 2004 the Shooting Star Casino administered drug tests to 1,355 tribal applicants of which 77% tested positive! Marijuana was the main drug found although 8 tested positive for cocaine, meth, and opiates. This is an astounding figure and it is very disheartening that this is happening. Chairwoman Erma Vizenor says that the tribal council is taking a proactive approach in trying to help those who test positive while they will still be able to retain their job. Not a bad idea, but I wonder if the white employees are able to do the same? (Source - Anishinaabeg Today, Sept. 15, 2004) Oh, and funny, when you read a job ad for the casino it always has a disclaimer at the bottom that reads this... "Equal Opportunity Employer with Indian Preference" How much sense does that make? LOL I know I look like the village racist here and so be it. My best friends are Indian. One is a Psychiatrist. Another is a software designer for IBM in Austin. Another tests snowmobiles for Polaris. Everyone of them have bettered themselves in our modern society while STILL celebrating their heritage in some form or another. Get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members telephant Posted December 27, 2007 Members Share Posted December 27, 2007 This thread reminds me of that Dave Chappelle stand up skit where is all like, "I try to tell young brothers these days... You know, get out, get a job... Learn to play basketball or something because... YOU ARE TRAPPED NIGGA!!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members evhtone Posted December 27, 2007 Members Share Posted December 27, 2007 This thread reminds me of that Dave Chappelle stand up skit where is all like, "I try to tell young brothers these days... You know, get out, get a job... Learn to play basketball or something because... YOU ARE TRAPPED NIGGA!!!" LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members telephant Posted December 27, 2007 Members Share Posted December 27, 2007 LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Man I {censored}ed that quote all up, its really something like, "Learn to rap or playing basketball or something cause you are TRAPPED NIGGA!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members evhtone Posted December 27, 2007 Members Share Posted December 27, 2007 Man I {censored}ed that quote all up, its really something like, "Learn to rap or playing basketball or something cause you are TRAPPED NIGGA!" It came out fine. Still funny, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members telephant Posted December 27, 2007 Members Share Posted December 27, 2007 You gotta learn how to run a casino or grow peyote cause you are trapped red man!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mister kyo Posted December 27, 2007 Members Share Posted December 27, 2007 "Equal Opportunity Employer with Indian Preference" :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members evhtone Posted December 27, 2007 Members Share Posted December 27, 2007 You gotta learn how to run a casino or grow peyote cause you are trapped red man!!! Haha. I guess so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members django5 Posted December 27, 2007 Members Share Posted December 27, 2007 Most europeans didnt even know how to hunt when they got here (Hunting was reserved only for royals in europe). Guess who taught them?Agriculture on north american soils was for the most part a mystery for Europeans as well...guess who taught them. Hmmm......:poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Keebz Posted December 27, 2007 Members Share Posted December 27, 2007 The tribes out here around the Phoenix AZ got their {censored} together, Indian Preference and they take care of their own with the revenue. This makes me upset that my own tribe doesn't have a clue on how to get in on this because they want to stay "Sovereign" in the meantime there are parts of the reservation still without running water and electricity. evhtone...your avatar is one sexy bitch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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