Time signature weirdness

[Delle_Rose]

I should put the disclaimer that, when it comes to theory/time signatures/technical things, I don't know what the hell I'm doing. Ever. I don't even know what time signatures mean - I've just learned to recognize basic ones (akin to a kid "reading" by memorizing the book).

 

Now... Ohk, so I have a song, and I'm not sure what the time signature is. It's played in what sounds like 8th notes in 4/4 time, except the very last note is cut off, so:

 

1 & 2 & 3 & 4 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 ad nauseum

 

Or, in my head, I think of it as "1 2 3 1 2 3 4", and have basically used the mental trick of making it two bars (though given the speed it's actually only one?) - the first in waltz time, the second in standard 4/4, just so I can make sense of it.

 

Um... anyone know what that would be?

 

Thanks!!!

[Stackabones]

Looks like 7/8 time.

[Delle_Rose]

 

Originally posted by Stackabones Looks like 7/8 time.

 

 

Thank you!!!

 

I actually just thought that might be the case like 2 minutes ago when I realised "All You Need Is Love" is in that timing, so I searched for the time sig for that, but I still wasn't sure. But yes... you suggesting it makes me more certain of that (ie: someone who actually knows what they're talking about, rather than me randomly guessing).

 

Thanks!

[recordingtrack1]

So is the song "Money" by Pink Floyd.

 

RT1:thu:

[Stackabones]

Originally posted by Delle_Rose Thank you!!! I actually just thought that might be the case like 2 minutes ago when I realised "All You Need Is Love" is in that timing, so I searched for the time sig for that, but I still wasn't sure. But yes... you suggesting it makes me more certain of that (ie: someone who actually knows what they're talking about, rather than me randomly guessing). Thanks!

 

If I remember correctly, the verse in "All You Need" is in 7/4 and the chorus is in 4/4. Been a long time since I've heard that one, so don't quote me!

 

Money's in 7/4, yep.

 

For a classic CD with odd time signatures, check out Dave Brubeck's Time Out, which contains the evergreen "Take Five"--in 5/4.

 

 

Check out this list of tunes in odd time signatures. WOW!

[bluesway]

yeah...money's 7/4. that's 7/8. good times. depending on the groove, there are alot of ways to count it. where's your accented beats in the rhythm? a popular pattern for 7/8 (totally killed and overdone by dream theater in their attempt to show us how talented they are) is

1 2 1 2 1 2 3 - accenting the ones

 

.

[Delle_Rose]

 

Originally posted by bluesway yeah...money's 7/4. that's 7/8. good times. depending on the groove, there are alot of ways to count it. where's your accented beats in the rhythm? a popular pattern for 7/8 (totally killed and overdone by dream theater in their attempt to show us how talented they are) is 1 2 1 2 1 2 3 - accenting the ones .

 

 

hehe. Eh... I don't like Dream Theater, so nothing like that. Actually, the song started as me trying to rip-off Jacques Brel's "Les Vieux", and as it progressed I also started ripping off Regina Spektor's "Braille" (both of which are 4/4) and it took its own identity from there. I was just playing in that timing for some reason and suddenly I thought "wait - that's weird"... so I tried playing it in 4/4 and it just didn't sound right. The accents are... well, as I said, I divided it between waltz time and standardy time, so it was 1 2 3 1 2 3 4 ... and sometimes 1 2 3 1 2 3 4... depending on what sounded better with each part. And then every now and then there's a short 4/4 part to break it up.

 

What exactly is the difference between 7/4 and 7/8? Sorry to ask so many questions... if you know a site that explains it, that'd be cool, too (I did a search, but nothing really explained what I want to know). As of last night I started "experimenting" with different timings (well, weird note counts, as I don't actually understand the concept of timing)... a phrase of 5 notes here, 7 there, etc... It's weird how just adding or removing a note can completely change the mood/feel/etc... of a song. So I'm interested now.

[Delle_Rose]

Originally posted by Stackabones Check out this list of tunes in odd time signatures. WOW!

 

yeah... that's actually one of the things I found when I was trying to figure it out. That's some weird {censored}. I know so many of those songs, too, and never realised how odd the timing was... like Roxy Music's "Amazona"... that entire song is just a mess of time signatures apparently, and I had no idea.

 

I just asked this below (er... above), but what's the difference between 7/4 and 7/8?

 

Anyway, again, thank you!

[Floophead3]

7/4 has 7 quarter notes in a bar, with 2 half notes and a dotted half note as your beats. Either 1 2 3 1 2 1 2, 1 2 1 2 3 1 2, or 1 2 1 2 1 2 3. Unles you're on crack and divide it incorrectly for some reason.

7/8 has 7 either notes in a bar, and the beats are 2 quarters and 1 dotted quarter. Ultimately they're the same thing, but on paper they are different.

[bluesway]

expanding a bit more on what floophead said, (although he pretty much got it), i would have to say that they are very much NOT the same thing and they both have a purpose.

 

there's a feel difference in 7/8. usually, there's 3 accents in that measure (which supports floop's quarter, quarter, dotted-quarter setup) - 7/4 has two at most...."money" is only accented on the "1" - so that's just 1 accent.

 

a more foolproof way to get to the bottom of it is by feeling tempo. a fast 7 (or 2,2,3) note passage will always be 7/8....a slow one will always be 7/4. same thing with 5/8 and 5/4. listen to take five (learn the tune, also - nice bridge change, nice head)..that's a slow series of 5 notes - countable as 1-2-3-4-5 and subdivisible, if necessary. 5/8 would be much more rapid and felt as 1-2-1-2-3 - accents on the 1's.

 

if you want to shed this, play with 3/4 and 6/8 to get the basic idea. 3/4 is just 3 quarters - like that omm-pah-pah thing from europe. 6/8 is more of a backbeat feel divided by 3 instead of 4. 123123 - accent on the second '1'. a perfect circle has many tunes in 6/8.

 

the best way to determine (really) is by going with your gut...and as long as you're following along, it's all good.

[Aaron Cheney]

For a lesson in giving odd time sigs an undeniable groove listen to just about any Led Zep album. Their song The Ocean off Houses of the Holy would be a perfect example of what I'm talking about. John Bonham was incredible that way. Tons of Sting songs too....

 

A

[rcb]

 

Originally posted by Aaron Cheney For a lesson in giving odd time sigs an undeniable groove listen to just about any Led Zep album. Their song The Ocean off Houses of the Holy would be a perfect example of what I'm talking about. John Bonham was incredible that way. Tons of Sting songs too....

 

 

Another great odd-time signature Zepplin tune is "Four Sticks" (5/8 with a 6/8 B section). And speaking of undeniable groove...what about the beginning of "Scatterbrain" by Jeff Beck? Holy crap, I never knew 9/8 could sound so good until hearing that drummer (Richard Bailey, I believe).