Members Beastly Posted June 12, 2007 Members Share Posted June 12, 2007 So the 'in and out' drummer of our band took the initiative of copywrighting MY songs! :eek: Im kinda pissed about it..... I wrote all the tunes BUT because hes constantly quitting/kicked out/back in he got worried that someone else could "steal his drumtracks" and copywrote our nearly complete CD that i was gonna copywright once complete (In his name). What the hell? Could it ever stand up? I dont think he could come up with one lyric, and could prolly only play about 2 tunes on the guitar....so i think i could demonstrate that i wrote them should the need ever arise, but dont know if that matters now.... I know it doesnt matter anyway, cuz were not like divy-ing up the millions or anyhting obviously....but he was worried enough to do it....and now im worried enough to wonder if he can... Any help? Can he do that? What can I do? Beat his ass? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted June 12, 2007 Members Share Posted June 12, 2007 Don't beat his ass. What did a poor donkey do to you? It sounds like you've got a healthy perspective on this -- all the same, the person or persons who wrote the song should get the intellectual property credit, even if it never earns a dime of royalties, like the overwhelming bulk of the music written and recorded. It gets tricky, of course, when everyone is sitting around working up a song... One of the guys comes in with some lyrics and the verse and chorus chords and, as the band is doing it, they work out a bridge or maybe change a couple of chords... maybe someone suggests a few changed words... and next thing you know you're halfway down the slippery slope to group credits. I've heard of bands doing things like, whoever brings in a song gets half the credit and the rest of the band gets the rest, or other similar strategies. In the album days, some bands made sure the whole band shared credit on a few workouts. Sometimes, it means setting up formal agreements -- but a few clear, well-chosen words delineating everyone's rights on a piece of paper and signed and dated can be a great help in keeping everyone straight. Whether or not it might stand up under a high priced legal barrage may be a separate issue but having a clear indication of the intent of the parties to an agreement typically helps assure a favorable outcome should adjudication raise its honorable head. That said, the real value is for the parties to have clearly delineated agreement that can be referred to later to guide them in "self-adjudicating" what hopefully can remain an internal and ultimately be a temporary dispute. One good mutually arrived at, properly delineated agreement between parties of good faith can preclude a hundred lawsuits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members egelmett Posted June 13, 2007 Members Share Posted June 13, 2007 So the 'in and out' drummer of our band took the initiative of copywrighting MY songs! :eek: Im kinda pissed about it..... I wrote all the tunes BUT because hes constantly quitting/kicked out/back in he got worried that someone else could "steal his drumtracks" and copywrote our nearly complete CD that i was gonna copywright once complete (In his name). What the hell? Could it ever stand up? I dont think he could come up with one lyric, and could prolly only play about 2 tunes on the guitar....so i think i could demonstrate that i wrote them should the need ever arise, but dont know if that matters now.... I know it doesnt matter anyway, cuz were not like divy-ing up the millions or anyhting obviously....but he was worried enough to do it....and now im worried enough to wonder if he can... Any help? Can he do that? What can I do? Beat his ass? Thanks I suppose if it ever came to anything legal you could ask him, in front of an impartial jury, to play the song on the guitar....heheheh Drummers! I mean, what a dumb{censored}? It's like cheating on your golf score...you aren't good if you aren't good. Does the drummer write music or did he just knick these songs from you as his own? The best revenge is to write even better songs. It's not like he can reproduce your ideas on his own. You know the saying, you can't live with them, and you can't kill them...but hey EZ Drummer was made to save the lives of asshole drummers and replace them! Seriously now. Be honest. Are the songs he copyrighted really going to be hits or bring you money? Be honest. I know, it's the principle of the matter, I'd be {censored}ing cheesed off too. I think you ought to contact a entertainment attorney. But, that's if you really believe in the songs and can't look past the violation of the theft. I'd probably wait for the opportunity for revenge in a dark alley though... Oh man, good luck with this...this is probably the worst that can happen...maybe there are some guitars equally as priceless that would hurt to lose, but man, those are your ideas you lost, not his...my condolences.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dbd1963 Posted June 13, 2007 Members Share Posted June 13, 2007 Whatever else I did, I would make sure that the drummer and I never shared a creative project again. He has already demonstrated that he's a thief, and delusional too.. copyright his drumlines? I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the drumlines he used have already been played many times by other drummers.. If the songs aren't going to be hits it's not worth your time to go to court about it, but there may be a way to file a contesting claim of some sort, then if they do go and get popular, you'll have your copyright claim, and it will be backed up by the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Li10 Posted June 13, 2007 Members Share Posted June 13, 2007 what the hell?! "his" drumtracks have probably already been played a million times in the history of music. What a goddamn retard. Get him out of your band, now. He doesn't trust you, and now he's gone and done this behind you and your bandmates' backs, you have reason to distrust him. Get a new drummer, I know it might be harder than simply saying it, but that guy sounds like trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Beastly Posted June 13, 2007 Author Members Share Posted June 13, 2007 damn, damn , damn..... obviously we need a drummer..... the cheating on your golf score thing is funny. As for the first reply, i definetly understand how a song can become a collective effort (me and the bassist hammered out three of them until we had clearly collaborated, and consider it so) and the drummer did contribute one riff off of one song on an eleven song release. so he wrote 1/33rd of the album, or one third of a tune, to which he was always going to be credited. but the remaining 7 are middle of the night, noone around but me dealies. And of course, i know that it doesnt matter really since the odds of making any waves are slim to none, but you dont make stuff you dont think is enjoyable, so you never know, y'kna? And yes, i pointed out to him that if drumbeats were copywrightable dave grohl would sue his ass and the whole punk genre could be reduced to one band. but nevertheless, i am now {censored}ed. Thanks for the input guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Beastly Posted June 13, 2007 Author Members Share Posted June 13, 2007 oh.....one more thing.....i do have countless early versions of these songs just me and an acoustic on my computer if that would help me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Big Boss Man Posted June 13, 2007 Members Share Posted June 13, 2007 I would still register your copyright for these songs giving fair credit to everyone involved. A copyright is established once the songs are saved in a fixed format (written or recorded). Copyright registration is merely a formality to further prove who created a work and when. The fact that the drummer registered the copyright first does not mean he now owns the songs. A registered copyright is worthless if it cannot be substantiated in court. Definitely save early recordings you have of the songs. These can be used to prove how you developed song ideas into their final recorded format. Combine that with your own copyright registration (that maybe shortly after the drummers) and his questionable copyright registration will not hold up in court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Li Shenron Posted June 19, 2007 Members Share Posted June 19, 2007 I'm not sure but maybe it's not rather a problem of losing money you could've hypothetically made, but that now if your band plays those songs live you have to pay something to him... or not? I think this is clearly theft. Hopefully you have the rest of the band and other witnesses to back you up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chicken Monkey Posted June 19, 2007 Members Share Posted June 19, 2007 Whatever else I did, I would make sure that the drummer and I never shared a creative project again. I agree. If you brought these songs in, there is nothing in the world that this drummer could do that would make me willing to work with him creatively again. The paranoia and lack of trust is just not worth your time. I'd probably let these songs slide, if only to avoid confrontation with an obviously sick individual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bardsley Posted June 19, 2007 Members Share Posted June 19, 2007 Sort it out now, rather than later. Don't let it get to the stage where there is a lot, or really any, money involved. Just try to find a friend of a friend who's a copyright lawyer (or at least who's studied it) who can talk over your options. Those recordings are gold, as are any early drafts of lyrics or melody that you've got anywhere on paper, especially if they're dated (chord progressions can't be copyrighted though).The composer of the song is the guy who gets all the royalties. You may say they're not going to be big, but what if some guy out of nowhere asks to cover it, and he becomes a massive success? All of the royalties from that song on his album will go to the copyright holder.If a dj does a remix of a song in which he gives credit to the writer (if he used a large portion of the song) again, the copyright holder will get the royalties. If it gets played on radio, even if it's your bands performance, the only person to get money is the composer, not the whole band. This is why songwriting is much more lucrative than performance, and why you must act on this now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members New Trail Posted June 19, 2007 Members Share Posted June 19, 2007 You cannot copyright drum lines, licks, beats, or whatever. I learned the hard way that what is copyrighted is the melody and the lyrics. This, whether it was his intention or not, was what your drummer now has the copyright to. Only you know whether the guy is a thieving asshole or was legitimately trying to protect his work. IMO if I thought he was a thieving asshole I would cut him loose, even if I had to potentially lose my songwriting credit on those previous songs. New songs will come, and so will new drummers. People who steal your creativity from you are not your friends, and should be cut out of your life. Just my opinion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lefordea Posted June 19, 2007 Members Share Posted June 19, 2007 That totally sucks, man. My distant advice (since I didn't put my energy into those songs) is to just chalk it up to learning experience. I've been there before. You got screwed, but that's old stuff. You should have more gas in the tank to create new, better songs. Hell, if you're in the punk genre (just guessing from your earlier post), this experience would seem to be a blessing to fuel a couple of angry songs in its own right. Ha ha. Good luck in sorting this stuff out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dbd1963 Posted June 19, 2007 Members Share Posted June 19, 2007 oh.....one more thing.....i do have countless early versions of these songs just me and an acoustic on my computer if that would help me? Yes it would help. If it ever comes down to it, you will be able to prove that those were your songs, and not his. He isn't the first person to improperly file a copyright claim. But if it ever does come down to it, a lot will depend on the quality of lawyers you and he have. But the chances of this coming to anything more than his wasting his money on the copyright are very low, so I wouldn't even worry about this for now. Just drop him like the piece of crap that he is. Then flush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Li10 Posted June 19, 2007 Members Share Posted June 19, 2007 good advice, last post... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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