Members JSmalley12000 Posted January 29, 2008 Members Share Posted January 29, 2008 Hello everyone, I am looking for any advice, tips, practice routines, and anything else from people who never had naturally great voices, but were able to work their way up to a good voice. It doesn't have to be a great voice. People have given me compliments on my natural timbre and tone, but also told me I need to work a lot on my breathing and pitch control. I take voice lessons, and only really started focusing on singing about 2 years ago, so I feel like I still have a few years to learn ahead of me, but sometimes it feels like wasted time. When I pull up old recordings, I can definitely hear improvement in every facet of my singing. But, sometimes I wonder if I'm getting better, just not getting better enough to cross that line. A lot of times I find I can sing well practicing, or walking around town, or other random moments, but as soon as someone's watching or I turn a microphone on, I'm seized up by anxiety and my singing (which at this point is not that great to begin with) gets even worse. I think I used to be like this on guitar, and eventually kept playing to the point I'm comfortable playing guitar in front of people. I'm just hoping my voice comes around as well. I have a lot of songs written and right now, I'm able to bumble over them, but a lot of melodies I've written that I really like, I end up singing too high in my range (I'm a barritone), and it sounds like crap. On this point, I'd love advice on how to best find the key worth transposing my songs into. Anyway, I'd love to hear stories, advice, tips, or anything else from singers. Thanks! -Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted January 29, 2008 Members Share Posted January 29, 2008 The best advice i can give is to just practice , and record yourself. you might want to work up some covers. This will allow you to experiment with alot of songs without having to write them. If you keep the vocals on their own track ,, you can go back and keep gunning the vocal track on a song and compare your last attempt to your prior. The big break through for me was the day I discovered how to sing by bringing it up from my diaprham rather than just singing out my mouth. It was like flipping on a light switch. The more different songs you learn to sing the better singer you will be. Dont limit yourself to original songs.....Do covers , that way you have a model to shoot for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JSmalley12000 Posted January 29, 2008 Author Members Share Posted January 29, 2008 Great advice! Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted January 29, 2008 Moderators Share Posted January 29, 2008 Breath control. It's an interesting concept. To most it means, or I should say, to me it used to mean, "Take in and maintain enough air to sing your phrase before you grab you next bit of air." That makes sense. Breath control. Nope. It's taking in air and maintaining it to produce good tone with ease. When that clicked for me, it all changes. Air supply is what actually is the motor for good tone. The throat, tongue, and any other part of your biology? Just get them out of the way. Open up and let your voice resonate openly with all that flesh out of the way. And... while conserving your breath supply so you can continue producing good tone for the duration of the phrase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted January 29, 2008 Moderators Share Posted January 29, 2008 I should add... this is an oversimplification. The mouth plays a big part in the tone you produce, but for initial conceptualization, it works. Lifting the upper soft palate, dropping the jaw to get a nice big open gob... it all plays into it. But first, work on breathing in, maintaining that breath, and getting out of your own way. The byproduct of that good tone is good pitch. It all ties in and becomes easier. Read this... http://www.amazon.com/Performers-Voice-Meribeth-Bunch-Dayme/dp/0393979938 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JSmalley12000 Posted January 29, 2008 Author Members Share Posted January 29, 2008 Breath control. It's an interesting concept. To most it means, or I should say, to me it used to mean, "Take in and maintain enough air to sing your phrase before you grab you next bit of air." That makes sense. Breath control.Nope.It's taking in air and maintaining it to produce good tone with ease. When that clicked for me, it all changes. Air supply is what actually is the motor for good tone. The throat, tongue, and any other part of your biology? Just get them out of the way. Open up and let your voice resonate openly with all that flesh out of the way. And... while conserving your breath supply so you can continue producing good tone for the duration of the phrase I find I've recently been able to produce a smoother, more-easily-pitched tone that is VERY quiet, like a really smooth whisper. I'm assuming if I keep practicing that I can slowly add volume to this and it will be my singing voice. Is this along the lines of what you are talking about? I already learned how to sing from my abdomen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted January 29, 2008 Moderators Share Posted January 29, 2008 I find I've recently been able to produce a smoother, more-easily-pitched tone that is VERY quiet, like a really smooth whisper. I'm assuming if I keep practicing that I can slowly add volume to this and it will be my singing voice. Is this along the lines of what you are talking about? I already learned how to sing from my abdomen. But a whisper comes from restricting in your throat. Singing from your abdomen really is just referring to being able to not release all your air supply singing your first few notes. And the push comes from there too. So the abdomen is the motor and governor. The air is the ammunition. The throat and mouth are the barrel of the weapon. Don't obstruct your your "barrel" and don't waste your "ammunition" on one shot. You should be able to sing soft or hard without obstruction... Really, check the book I linked you to. It's very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jersey Jack Posted January 29, 2008 Members Share Posted January 29, 2008 I second Lee Knight's observations. :thu:The Dayne book is a good one to read; though it is not geared, as I recall, toward pop music, it's well-written and very informative. And about breath control: YES! Like a lot of other people, I always assumed that breath control means diaphramatic breathing and then blowing up from the diaphram to "control" the note. The first part of that statement is certainly true, but the second is not true--or in any case not the whole story. As Lee Knight suggested, control means regulation--the control part means holding air back, not blowing it up. When your belly, sides, and back swell up and you begin to sing, the air will begin to come up like air coming out of a balloon. The control part involves using your diaphram to keep too much air from coming up too fast. This holding back of air both allows you to sing longer phrases and (more importantly) produces good tone by keeping you on your voice--i.e., not breathy. Sorry for the longish, and perhaps repetitive post, but this new idea of what "control" means was a long time coming for me, and now that I've seen the light I guess I'm overly zealous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members captain average Posted January 29, 2008 Members Share Posted January 29, 2008 i find holding in bong hits to be good for lung discipline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JSmalley12000 Posted January 29, 2008 Author Members Share Posted January 29, 2008 Really, check the book I linked you to. It's very good. I ordered it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Joeytpg Posted January 29, 2008 Members Share Posted January 29, 2008 The breathing aspect of it all is very very important. You have to practice breathing exercises. It's the Most important thing. then you can learn proper voice positioning techniques, and try to augment your range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cjlinus Posted January 30, 2008 Members Share Posted January 30, 2008 I'm curious as to what style of music you want to sing. I believe thaht there are pleanty of marginal voices that are truly great within the context of a particular style. ie Bowie or Petty (Tom not Kyle). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members eddieboston2 Posted January 30, 2008 Members Share Posted January 30, 2008 Funny that this site doesn't have a singing message board...Anyway, if you're not happy with the progress you're making, you may want to consider a new vocal teacher. A good teacher was the thing that helped me the most. In addition to the above book, I would recommend The Rock-N-Roll Singer's Survival Manual by Mark Baxter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bluesway Posted January 30, 2008 Members Share Posted January 30, 2008 good singing=good breath support. we're not going to be able to tell you anything that a good singing instructor wouldn't have already covered. one thing that i will mention is that i hope you have a good exercise book and you work out of it on a daily basis with syllabic variation (hard E/soft E; hard A/soft A; etc.). NOT just songs, but singing exercises. there are a few fantastic ones out there. ask your instructor and even if he/she insists on just doing songs (as many of them do in the name of 'keeping students'), get them to tell you the ones they know of. one that i'm partial to is the director's edition of 'building beautiful voices,' (Nesheim) but that's a drop in the bucket; there are SO many. and that's just the one that was available to me when i started working with choirs.....if there had been another available, i'd probably be toting that one to you . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bluesway Posted January 30, 2008 Members Share Posted January 30, 2008 . . . "Take in and maintain enough air to sing your phrase before you grab you next bit of air." That makes sense. Breath control. Nope. It's taking in air and maintaining it to produce good tone with ease. . . . well, yeah...but that ease comes as a byproduct of breath control. when you practice for breath control and for maintaining enough air [correctly] to sing your phrase, you're exercising your lungs to be efficient....efficiency is that ease, right? so, you're basically saying an extension of the same thing and calling it something different. (yes. i DID put [correctly] in there) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted January 30, 2008 Moderators Share Posted January 30, 2008 in there) Agreed. My personal breakthrough came from realizing that if I control my breath, I didn't have to pinch off my tone. It just wasn't about having enough air to sing, it was having enough air to be bold enough to OPEN UP. This may not translate to others I realize, but it was a huge breakthrough for me. I was, for years, pushing what little air I had through a pinched vocal track. It's a sound that's accepted. Early Elvis Costello, Petty... and nothing wrong with it. But I didn't want to sing like that anymore. I had dreams of rocking like McCartney. So I learned breath control and still pinched. Now I could sing longer phrases, with more volume... in a pinched tone. Hmmm. Then it clicked. If I have all that air at my beck and call.... relax. Let's see how we can use it differently. Open up. Point it here, there, here again. Lower the tongue. Now raise the rear upper soft palette. Point into the mask. Sing through though the eye glasses. All different tones, and sounds that eluded me for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JSmalley12000 Posted January 30, 2008 Author Members Share Posted January 30, 2008 I'm curious as to what style of music you want to sing. I believe thaht there are pleanty of marginal voices that are truly great within the context of a particular style. ie Bowie or Petty (Tom not Kyle). Most of my stuff is Brit-rock stuff, real driving and moody. I have some demos online: http://www.myspace.com/morphinesmile , but only one of those am I actually singing, and that was from Nov. 2006. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JSmalley12000 Posted January 30, 2008 Author Members Share Posted January 30, 2008 My personal breakthrough came from realizing that if I control my breath, I didn't have to pinch off my tone. It just wasn't about having enough air to sing, it was having enough air to be bold enough to OPEN UP. This may not translate to others I realize, but it was a huge breakthrough for me. I actually had a bit of a breakthrough yesterday, after reading these posts. I've found a "new" singing voice, if you will, that is very smooth and had suprising results for pitch control. I can't sing too loud in it yet, but it feels very natural. I recorded some covers and was amazed at how much more expressive it was. So I'm going to keep trying to develop this voice, because it feels very intuitive. It's also allowing me to improvise melodies over lyrics I've already written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JSmalley12000 Posted January 30, 2008 Author Members Share Posted January 30, 2008 one thing that i will mention is that i hope you have a good exercise book and you work out of it on a daily basis with syllabic variation (hard E/soft E; hard A/soft A; etc.). NOT just songs, but singing exercises. I have been on a hiatus from my previous instructor, and I'm not sure if I'm going to restart with her or find a new one. I'm leaning towards the latter. So, on my own, I do do-re-mi's, and I record everything I sing and listen to it later. Otherwise, I do not practice anything else, I just make a constant effort when I'm singing to keep it "speech-like", like conversational, and try to pronounce everything clearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted January 30, 2008 Moderators Share Posted January 30, 2008 This CD is pretty corny but... her Vocal Warmup CD is great to have in your car. Do it everyday driving home from work and your voice will improve. Combine the exercises with some common ideas found in the various recommended books and you've got a great method of improving. http://www.singingvoicelessons.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bluesway Posted January 31, 2008 Members Share Posted January 31, 2008 This CD is pretty corny but... her Vocal Warmup CD is great to have in your car. Do it everyday driving home from work and your voice will improve. Combine the exercises with some common ideas found in the various recommended books and you've got a great method of improving.http://www.singingvoicelessons.com/ awesome idea. singers have the benefit of practicing everywhere....or at least, practicing one aspect of what it takes to sing well everywhere. (as, sitting in a car driver's seat is far from good posture, it will definitely help you with your pitch, pallette, etc.) i'm going to follow this suggestion, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bluesway Posted January 31, 2008 Members Share Posted January 31, 2008 I actually had a bit of a breakthrough yesterday, after reading these posts. I've found a "new" singing voice, if you will, that is very smooth and had suprising results for pitch control. I can't sing too loud in it yet, but it feels very natural. I recorded some covers and was amazed at how much more expressive it was. So I'm going to keep trying to develop this voice, because it feels very intuitive. It's also allowing me to improvise melodies over lyrics I've already written. great, man! glad to hear it. one thing i've noticed is that GOOD singers can go high with volume control. (i am anything BUT a good singer. when i go to a high pitch, that {censored} gets screamed.....*exaggeration*....it gets considerably louder. ) but when you think about it, being able to hit higher pitches as relative volume is another positive aspect of good breath control and efficiency, now isn't it? hmmmmmm. i'll shut up now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JSmalley12000 Posted January 31, 2008 Author Members Share Posted January 31, 2008 great, man! glad to hear it. one thing i've noticed is that GOOD singers can go high with volume control. (i am anything BUT a good singer. when i go to a high pitch, that {censored} gets screamed.....*exaggeration*....it gets considerably louder. ) but when you think about it, being able to hit higher pitches as relative volume is another positive aspect of good breath control and efficiency, now isn't it? hmmmmmm. i'll shut up now. It's all good man, thanks. I've always felt that I'd "get it" eventually. I'm just trying to "get it" a lot sooner, by working hard and asking questions. I'm particularly happy that people on this board are willing to share so much advice and suggest useful resources. Very cool of everyone!! I've got plenty of volume, but I've learned that unless it's very controlled (which it mostly is not) it's useless to someone else's ears. There's a indie-folk artist right now called 'Iron and Wine' who sings barely above a whisper, and I'm starting to wonder if that's a route worth going. Or like a Jack Johnson. I, like everyone else I know who hates corporate rock, wishes they could sing like Thom Yorke! But, I find with voice, I get incrementally better the more I let go of things, not try to add them on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Floophead3 Posted February 1, 2008 Members Share Posted February 1, 2008 Well I think there's more to consider than just tone and volume. I think it's important to focus on pitch, range, and especially transitioning between ranges. That's something I have a big problem with still, and I'm considering about taking some lessons to work on it. I think doing some aural exercises can really help though. Singing is also about listening and recognizing intervals and staying on pitch. Being able to sing the difficult parts becomes a lot easier when you practice the different intervals and scales not just by singing but also by listening and identifying them. It gets to the point where you don't have to think about what you're singing, you just sing it. That is of course not even where I'm at yet, but I've noticed myself heading in that direction since I've practiced that kind of aural training. Anyways, there should definitely be a vocal forum on HC, it's ridiculous we don't have one, but at least it makes the songwriting forums look busy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cjlinus Posted February 1, 2008 Members Share Posted February 1, 2008 Most of my stuff is Brit-rock stuff, real driving and moody. When I think "Brit Rock" I think Plant and Daltrey, neither of whom I consider to be particularly well "trained" vocalist although they are both great at what they do. My taste tend toward singers that have a lot of charater rather than great enuciation. I may be in the minority here but it seems to me that concentrating on your idea of what you want to sound like would be the main focus. I like the idea of recording yourself and then concentrating on how you want to sound "better". Breath control is allways good to work on as well as intonation and it looks like the advice so far is dead on in those areas. Just be careful not to loose your own character in the voice training process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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