Rubbish Songwriter

[xoeo]

I have been guitar for about 3 years now.I have never taken lessons and never learned anyone elses song.I have never played along with anyone else except my brother who is a drummer. He tells me everything I write is off time and impossible to play along with,everytime we jam I just end up getting discouraged and I cant write a song worth a hoot,only single riffs. Everything I play sounds badass to me but apparently it doesn't make any sense whatsever. I am getting extremely discouraged because I feel like all I have gained from the past 3 years are bad habits and bad rythym. Maybe I am trying to be too complicated I don't know. Maybe its because of the music I listen to ( mostly mathrock/metal stuff like converge hot cross etc fall of troy etc. really crazy stuff). I would really dig any advice from anyone on how to play along with others and write songs that make rythmic sense. I have this theory that everyone has an internal rythym,or a rythym to sticks with them and in their muscle memory,and I think mine is a really bad rythym .

[KennethNishimot]

Get a collaborator that shares your tastes. One man's {censored}up is another man's brilliant free jazz lick.

[xoeo]

I don't believe it is not a matter of taste,but I dont play anything that is actually rythmic and doesnt really flow. I guess I just need to find someone else that is the same way right? or maybe just a really good musician. Would it help if I posted some recordings of my playing?

[rsadasiv]

I hope Bluesway posts something here to cheer you up - he is great at that.

 

Try playing with a drum machine instead of just with your brother. Your brother might be the one with the timing problem.

 

And in any case, keep playing and don't get too discouraged.

[SirEsquire]

...it would be really cool if you could post some of your music.

One of the most important aspects of art is being true to yourself, and expressing yourself. Sounds pretty obvious, but it's true.

 

Consider too that you've only been playing for a few years. It's taken me close to a decade to finally hone in on who I am as a musician (artistically speaking, not technique-wise). It takes a while to strip away all the BS and discover who is really there.

 

Another really important aspect of being an artist is to keep learning, evolving - at least that's how I work. If you find yourself stuck somewhere musically, or if what you have been doing has become stagnant or non-productive, maybe it's time to move on. I don't mean to suggest that you abandon what you've been working on. Perhaps you may take some elements of your current style that really is true to what you are expressing, and combine that with some new ideas, new directions. I haven't heard any of your stuff yet, but if you really are having trouble with rhythms, or if you're not developing rhythms for your music, I might suggest that you begin to lock in on structured tempos and rhythms.

 

It's all about exploring and keeping an open mind.

[The Trump]

A bad mistake you may have made is trying to play hard rhythms as a starting point. What you may want to do is

A: don't play with your brother, as he might be the one with a problem

B: try playing along with simple pop songs with 4/4 time and concentrate on phrasing and tempo

C: hone your skills in one simple area, and progress slowly until you can play in 54/5 and other math rock tempos, there isn't anything wrong with that, but it's something you should get to in due time.

 

Hope that helps, I'd love to hear some of the badass riffs you made!

[xoeo]

I actually dont even really know how time signatures work. Well I do as in 4/4 is 4beats and 4 measures 1 2 3 4| 1 2 3 4| 1 2 3 4| 1 2 3 4.But I dont know how to apply that to music and I dont know how to identify what the actual rythym I am playing is. So I don't exactly know how to follow the advice you have given.

I am pretty sure that I jumped into a certain kind of music too fast and it is causing me to form bad habits.

[kennychaffin]

I hope Bluesway posts something here to cheer you up - he is great at that. Try playing with a drum machine instead of just with your brother. Your brother might be the one with the timing problem. And in any case, keep playing and don't get too discouraged.

 

maybe Bluesway has another career waiting in the wings.

 

I'd agree, if it really is a rhythm problem. Don't trust just one opinion. Practice with a drum machine or metronome and work on complete phrases/verses/etc, not just riffs. Maybe what you are running into is that riffs alone do not make a song. There was a recent discussion about that here.

 

KAC

[blue2blue]

Not all of us hit the ground, running, musically speaking. It took me a long, long time to be able to make something vaguely recognizable as music. It was sheer, blind faith that kept me pushing forward... but eventually things started falling (slowly but with slowly accelerating ease) into place.

 

 

From what you write, you remind me of me... I was clueless about rhythm. When I started playing with drummers (patient drummers), it helped -- but the real breakthrough for me, ultimately, was beginning to work with a drum machine.

 

After working through all the suggested rhythms (this was before presets, I had to program them all in from a printed sheet) which were almost all unsuably busy and counter-productive, I hit on a simple four on the floor, 2 and 4 backbeat with an 1/8th note hi hat. [And that simply means a kick on every quarter note beat, a snare on the two and the four, and hihat on 1/8th notes -- ie, on the 1-and-2-and-3-and-4-and... with a hat tick on the numbers and the ands. 8 ticks to the bar, IOW.]

 

 

With that super simplified beat I could usually keep my place and, using the counting trick you already know (1-2-3-4, 2-2-3-4, 3-2-3-4... etc) I was able to sort of drill basic timing into my head (to the point where I can usually keep track of where I am within any 16 bar section without 'counting' explicitly... I think there's a little ticker in my head now that clicks off every four bar grouping and then tries to count the larger groupings.

 

 

Anyhow, it doesn't have to be a drum machine. It could be a virtual drum machine on a computer or a very simply rhythm loop or whatever. But you need something robotically steady to drill with. (I tried a metronome when I was young and before drum machines were readily available, but I never got anywhere with one in those days. But the kick and snare gave me more of a foundation; it made it harder to get lost.)

[thepalpitations]

 

I have been guitar for about 3 years now.I have never taken lessons and never learned anyone elses song.

 

 

 

This part of your post intrigued me the post. Why have you never learned any other songs? Typically, musicians starting out on any instrument begin by learning to play other people's songs -- especially guitarists, since there's so many accessible guitar-driven songs out there.

 

Are you actively resistant to learning other people's songs, or are you just not interested?

 

I think playing along with music you know and like is a crucial part of developing your chops as a guitarist. Find a chord-driven song - even something blindingly simple, like "Brown-Eyed Girl" or "Smells Like Teen Spirit" and learn to play chords solidly in time to the rhythm. Once you've done that, work on soloing or riffing overtop of songs you know and like.

 

 

It's sort of backwards to expect to create memorable new music if you haven't taken at least a little bit of time to learn what came before. It's like trying to write a novel when all you've ever read is the back of cereal boxes.

[blue2blue]

I learned to write because I found it so very difficult to learn other folks' songs, even with sheet music, chord boxes and tab. (Also, I always knew I wanted to write my own songs.)

 

But it was easier than trying to suss out other folks' work. I'm apparently [to this day] music-notation-dyslexic. I know what everything means (more or less) but when I look at standard notation it just looks like chicken scratches. I have to go through and parse everything one bit at a time. It probably takes me five minutes to work out two bars of simple classical guitar notation, say. (I can play the stuff [to some extent]... I just can't read it. )

 

 

Anyhow, I will second thepalpitation's suggestion... once I got to the point where I could start figuring things out (more by ear but that helped me actually sort of start figuring out standard notation), learning other folks songs really got a lot of the 'standard' progressions and wasy so dealing with chords and melodies into my muscle memory (so to speak). Second nature, as it were.

[SirEsquire]

... I just can't read it. )

 

...reminds me of an old joke: How do you get a guitar player to stop playing? Put sheet music in front of him.

 

I will also support the suggestions of learning some covers. I started off playing guitar by learning a bunch of Nirvana covers. As I played those songs, I learned about the almighty power chord, and I began to understand the simple structure of punk songs. So, once I got my chops down, I promptly started a punk band where I wrote most of the material.

 

Learning songs by other bands/songwriters not only helps you practice your chops, but it can really help you understand song structure, tempos, dynamics and the like.

[blue2blue]

 

 

 

I'm that guy.

[King_For_A_Day]

I learned to write because I found it so very difficult to learn other folks' songs, even with sheet music, chord boxes and tab. (Also, I always knew I wanted to write my own songs.)

 

Exactly. This.

 

Playing something "just like the record" is a skill I completely do not posess.

 

One reason I started writing is so other players would have to figure out what I'm doing!

 

Anyhow, I agree with most posters - simplify!

[myredshoes]

You're discouraged.

 

Expect this to happen periodically.

 

 

 

I agree with everyone who said drum machine; I am thinking maybe neither you nor your brother are the problem, you simply may not share a musical path. Really crappy drum machines (the kind with 5 or 7 pads and built-in 1-1/2" speakers) are available at discount stores for about $20 and can be had cheaper at yard sales, which is where I got the one I am currently not using. These little gems will have about a jillion different styles loaded and you can change the tempo of each, expanding the possibilities into the brazillions.

 

What you are playing after three years is probably who you are. You will almost certainly get better but you probably won't actually change much. This is a good thing. Bless you for never learning anyone else's songs. Maybe a slight mistake not to play with others, though. Interact. It can be hard with siblings. Play with others until someone doesn't tell you you're off time. Keep playing with that person. Add more people as needed. Take no lessons unless you really want to to achieve a specific objective.

 

Ignore demeaning criticism. Accept constructive criticism with a grain of salt. Everybody has an opinion. Where your art is concerned, yours is the only one that matters.

 

I don't know if you're badass or not but you could do worse {censored} than not sounding like everybody else.

[xoeo]

I will definitely take your advice on keeping it simple.I am trying really hard to find people to play with so I do not feel so discouraged all the time except I can't find anyone around where I live except old blues guys . I might try learning others songs but I dunno how to read tabs and probably would just get discouraged..I'm trying my hardest to keep my head up.I will post some videos or sound clips of some of my riffage whenever I get my git fixed(wiring just went out I think).Maybe that way you guys can A.) Flame me for how bad I am B.) tell me what you think I could improve and C.) Maybe compliment me and give me confidence. Mostly I feel so discouraged because I want to be in a bad so bad I am tired of playing by myself.One of my friends gave me some comforting words which were " a true artist is never happy with his work".

[SirEsquire]

 

One of my friends gave me some comforting words which were " a true artist is never happy with his work".

 

 

...or another way of putting it is, "You are always your own worst critic." And, I have found that to be exactly right. But, there is a fine line between honestly critiquing yourself and simply being too hard on yourself. It takes time to distinguish between the two.

 

Take yourself seriously as an artist, but never forget to just have fun, too.

[Dubb]

 

I might try learning others songs but I dunno how to read tabs and probably would just get discouraged.

More discouraged than you are now?

 

For one thing, tab is actually extremely easy to learn. I'm talking like, you can literally have it down within an hour, if that. But that's not the only way to learn music; you'll develop even more as a musician if you work things out with your own ear. The more you do this, the easier it gets. And the better able you are to take what you hear from others and translate it to your fretboard, the better able you will be to take what you hear in your head and translate it to your fretboard - an invaluable skill for any musician.

[The Trump]

Just keep at it pal, everyone is right!

[kennychaffin]

..... I can't find anyone around where I live except old blues guys . ....I might try learning others songs but I dunno how to read tabs and probably would just get discouraged.......

 

Well, see, here's the deal. I think you are shooting yourself in the foot and have already made up your mind. If you are serious about learning to play then you need to do several things. Learn to read Tab and/or music or at least learn to play along with songs you like (to train your ear). Find a teacher, even if there are none in your area there are internet teachers and lessons on line. Be open to whatever it takes to get where you want to be, including "old blues guys." Where do you think rock and roll came from?

 

Good Luck,

KAC

[xoeo]

 

Well, see, here's the deal. I think you are shooting yourself in the foot and have already made up your mind. If you are serious about learning to play then you need to do several things. Learn to read Tab and/or music or at least learn to play along with songs you like (to train your ear). Find a teacher, even if there are none in your area there are internet teachers and lessons on line. Be open to whatever it takes to get where you want to be, including "old blues guys." Where do you think rock and roll came from? Good Luck, KAC

 

 

I didnt mean the old blues guys in an offensive or bad way,I like blues actually and alot of them are nice guys,but how many old blues guys do you think wanna sit around in my moms basement playing metal music with me?I just meant that in regards to people to be in a band with.

 

I am seriously considering taking guitar lessons once I get my own car though.Learning others songs is on my top priority.

[kennychaffin]

 

I didnt mean the old blues guys in an offensive or bad way,I like blues actually and alot of them are nice guys,but how many old blues guys do you think wanna sit around in my moms basement playing metal music with me?I just meant that in regards to people to be in a band with. I am seriously considering taking guitar lessons once I get my own car though.Learning others songs is on my top priority.

 

 

I understand. I say go for all the gusto, learn all you can in whatever way possible. WRT the blues guys, I'm not saying convert them to metal, but maybe you sit in on one of their sessions even if it's just to sit and listen.

 

KAC

[thepalpitations]

 

I might try learning others songs but I dunno how to read tabs and probably would just get discouraged.

 

 

If you're not comfortable with tabs yet, just try learning some chord-based songs to get your sense of rhythm down. Even if ultimately you want to work in a riff-based structure, playing rhythm guitar is a fantastic way to learn, well, rhythm.

 

Dylanchords and Lennonchords are two great places to start, assuming that you're at all familiar with some of the work of these two great songwriters. Don't worry about trying to play "just like the record." Just look at the chord shapes and try to play a strumming pattern that will approximate the original song. Learning to do that is a big step in gaining fluidity as a guitarist.

[xoeo]

maybe Bluesway has another career waiting in the wings. I'd agree, if it really is a rhythm problem. Don't trust just one opinion. Practice with a drum machine or metronome and work on complete phrases/verses/etc, not just riffs. Maybe what you are running into is that riffs alone do not make a song. There was a recent discussion about that here. KAC

 

does anyone know the title off this thread Id like to read it