Moderators Lee Knight Posted July 6, 2011 Moderators Share Posted July 6, 2011 Like, really rough [video=youtube;ETDgpTwvGqs] Intro C1Paper and pen please write me a letterWhat I gotta say, you can say betterI'm tripping over words, my tongue is tiedBetter you spelling out the truth, than me telling lies V1And if you think I've got no heart, let's make a dealI will let it all... pour out behind the wheelIf you could jot it down just rightAs I drive on through the nightHands 10 and 2 and knuckles white... just how I feel C2Paper and pen please write me a letterWhat I gotta say, you can say betterI was coming home, then I passed our signOutta words to say, you gotta drop her a line V2And if you are... sharper than a blade of steelJust be kind, we both know how it feelsAnd if your ink runs or smearsDon't write a word about these tearsJust say I loved her all the years... that it was real Bridge (possible, not on vid)I can't look her in the eyeStanding face to faceCause I start to wonder whyI start to lose my place, so... C3Paper and pen please write me a letterWhat I gotta say, you can say betterI was coming home, then I got off trackSomebody's got to let her know... I ain't comin' back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted July 6, 2011 Members Share Posted July 6, 2011 Good stuff. Thoughts... * It almost sounds like the music is distancing itself from the pain of the lyrics. I wasn't expecting an anthem at all. * The melody is very catchy, especially the chorus and the ba da ba parts. * The end of the verse needs something. Both times I felt like it had one last little burst in it before the chorus should come in. In my head I hear another chord (either a C or an Am, can't tell right now without the guitar in my hands though I'm leaning towards C) coming in after the D. Then, the melody jumps up and you repeat the last part. D---------------C-----------------just how I feel.....Just how I feel Something like that Or, you could leave the first alone and only do it on the 2nd. That is was real.... Yeah, it was real! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bee3 Posted July 7, 2011 Members Share Posted July 7, 2011 I was expecting a ballad type of song. That said, it's singable. I love that though... sad lyrics too an upbeat song. Nice paradox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted July 7, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted July 7, 2011 Yeah... the music. Well, it is an anthem I guess. Anthem to being a chicken {censored} {censored} when it comes to love and communication? It's not really me, I tend to be kind of direct, but this whole idea, I like the guy being almost proud of asking the paper and pen to explain what he couldn't. Not proud, but at least willing to let himself off the hook and ask a favor of his Bic and pad.. Those repeats, it's what I envisioned as well but couldn't make it work. My earlier drafts had those tag repeats written in. I'll look closer at trying to get them back and work with the music... thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted July 7, 2011 Members Share Posted July 7, 2011 Yeah... the music. Well, it is an anthem I guess. Anthem to being a chicken {censored} {censored} when it comes to love and communication? It's not really me, I tend to be kind of direct, but this whole idea, I like the guy being almost proud of asking the paper and pen to explain what he couldn't. Not proud, but at least willing to let himself off the hook and ask a favor of his Bic and pad..Those repeats, it's what I envisioned as well but couldn't make it work. My earlier drafts had those tag repeats written in. I'll look closer at trying to get them back and work with the music... thanks. They can work, I'm sure of it. If need be, I'll record it myself and send it over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted July 7, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted July 7, 2011 They can work, I'm sure of it. If need be, I'll record it myself and send it over. let's hear it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LCK Posted July 7, 2011 Members Share Posted July 7, 2011 It's good, but I'm starting to see a hole in the logic of a guy talking to his pen and paper while he's driving, with his hands on the wheel at 10 and 2, etc. I like the urgency in the guitar and vocal, and the opening lines are great, but I don't think you can sustain that particular personification through the whole song. Maybe he should be talking to his car, or the engine, or the windshield wipers while he's driving. They would each have a different message to deliver, or a different thing to help the guy out with. The broken muffler could drown out her voice in his head, the windshield wipers could wipe away his tears, etc. I never envisioned the pen and paper doing this on their own, like in a Disney movie like Fantasia or something. I envisioned him with the pen in his hand, and the paper in front of him, and him letting them say what he can't say on his own. But that opening is pretty boss, man. Yeah, I said "boss." LCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stickboymusic Posted July 7, 2011 Members Share Posted July 7, 2011 Yeh i like this - also a little unexpected but damn i wrote a whole album of "happy" songs that was actually a sad breakup album so it works for me! does this line fill the gap...or something like that maybe? And if you think I've got no heart, let's make a dealI will let it all pour out, behind the wheelIf you could jot it down just rightAs I drive on through the nightHands 10 and 2 and knuckles white... just how I feel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted July 7, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted July 7, 2011 Yeh i like this - also a little unexpected but damn i wrote a whole album of "happy" songs that was actually a sad breakup album so it works for me!does this line fill the gap...or something like that maybe?And if you think I've got no heart, let's make a dealI will let it all pour out, behind the wheelIf you could jot it down just rightAs I drive on through the nightHands 10 and 2 and knuckles white... just how I feel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted July 7, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted July 7, 2011 Maybe he should be talking to his car, or the engine, or the windshield wipers while he's driving. They would each have a different message to deliver, or a different thing to help the guy out with. The broken muffler could drown out her voice in his head, the windshield wipers could wipe away his tears, etc. So Lee... your insights are chipping away at me. Here are my thoughts. I'd never heard or paid attention to Hello Walls before. Then it was posted in one of my earlier Paper and Pen threads and I checked the lyric. Willie (or Faron Young depending) address the walls, the windows and the ceiling. It's great. There's a consistent structure they talk to. Right? His room. So, talking to the wipers, the engine, etc. in a song called Paper and Pen is going to be a WTF?!?!? And I want a listener to at least pick up on the basic idea that he talking to the paper and pen. So... yeah. I think, (think) it works as a consistent message to the writing accouterments. He probably is picking up the pen when he stops for gas. I guess. But the conversation right now is really in his head. Can I get away with being a {censored} on this and not have to tell her face to face? And maybe I'd do well to explore that a bit.... thoughts, everyone? Or not, as in Stick's idea for filling the gap in the lyric, it embaces the idea that hey, you guys, paper and pen, write it down, I'll dictate. What the hell? And if you think I've got no heart, let's make a deal I will let it all pour out, behind the wheel If you could jot it down just right As I drive on through the night Hands 10 and 2 and knuckles white... just how I feel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members notlimah Posted July 7, 2011 Members Share Posted July 7, 2011 When that point first hit me was when I first started singing it yesterday. I've been out of the house and just singing and playing it in my head. I only first picked up the guitar yesterday then tracked. And as I did I thought, "so, whose holding the pen if I've got white knuckles on the wheel?"But then again Stickboy's following ideas... they sort of tie it up nicely. It is I guess, sort of a Fantasia deal. But not. He's convincing himself that leaving a note is ok. He should talk to her, right? But hey, paper nad pen, do me a favor. It's got holes. I'm not sure they bother me but I would love input from others as to if it bugs the rest of this crew. It works for me in the sense that paper and pen isn't really just paper and pen, but another being that isn't a "chicken {censored} {censored} when it comes to love and communication". If he keeps his hands on the wheel, thats perfect. If the truth isn't received well, it was that damned paper and pen's fault, not his. He can continue to hide from truth and responsibility. I really like the upbeat feel of the song. jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted July 7, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted July 7, 2011 Thanks for that ^ jeff. That helps. So, how about a short bridge hitting on why it needs to be a note instead of face to face? I can't look her in the eyeStanding face to faceCause I start to wonder whyI start to lose my place... so, paper and pen please... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted July 7, 2011 Members Share Posted July 7, 2011 FTR, the "paper and pen" and auto references never bothered me. I just viewed it as a seperate place in time, that he had already written the letter or was about to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stickboymusic Posted July 7, 2011 Members Share Posted July 7, 2011 hmmm i never saw it that way for me you will be using the pen and paper at some point.... rather than the things you never said face to face.... i thought you were saying all these things will be written, sure not IN the car WHILST driving but this is when all the words are jumbled and going through your head.... but you intend to sit down properly and write it maybe i missed the point.... maybe this theory works anyway - sure works for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted July 7, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted July 7, 2011 hmmm i never saw it that wayfor me you will be using the pen and paper at some point.... rather than the things you never said face to face.... i thought you were saying all these things will be written, sure not IN the car WHILST driving but this is when all the words are jumbled and going through your head.... but you intend to sit down properly and write itmaybe i missed the point.... maybe this theory works anyway - sure works for me You got the point. That was it. And Owslek, yeah, that's it. I'm just trying to juggle scenarios. Lee mentioned Fantasia and I saw his point. I'm really just trying to write about choosing to use a note instead of face to face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhino55 Posted July 7, 2011 Members Share Posted July 7, 2011 hmmm i never saw it that wayfor me you will be using the pen and paper at some point.... rather than the things you never said face to face.... i thought you were saying all these things will be written, sure not IN the car WHILST driving but this is when all the words are jumbled and going through your head.... but you intend to sit down properly and write itmaybe i missed the point.... maybe this theory works anyway - sure works for me This is the way I saw it also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LCK Posted July 7, 2011 Members Share Posted July 7, 2011 So Lee... your insights are chipping away at me. Here are my thoughts. I'd never heard or paid attention to Hello Walls before. Then it was posted in one of my earlier Paper and Pen threads and I checked the lyric. Willie (or Faron Young depending) address the walls, the windows and the ceiling. It's great. There's a consistent structure they talk to. Right? His room. So, talking to the wipers, the engine, etc. in a song called Paper and Pen is going to be a WTF?!?!? And I want a listener to at least pick up on the basic idea that he talking to the paper and pen. So... yeah. And if you think I've got no heart, let's make a deal I will let it all pour out, behind the wheel If you could jot it down just right I could drive on through the night Hands 10 and 2 and knuckles white... just how I feel Sorry to rain on the parade, Lee. First, I like Stickboy's verse. Second, I like your new verse. And I like Oswlek's comment about these being different moments in time. The only problem is that the logic of talking to a pen and paper while the guy is driving still doesn't work, at least not for me. If talking to the pen and paper takes place in the present (say at a motel where he's stopped for the night, or at a coffee shop where he's trying to capture his jumbled, frenetic thoughts), then maybe the driving took place in the immediate past. I can't let it all pour out, behind the wheel I've gotta stop for coffee and a meal. (not very good, I know) Help me jot it down just right So I can keep on driving through the night Hands 10 and 2 and knuckles white... just how I feel LCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stickboymusic Posted July 7, 2011 Members Share Posted July 7, 2011 Sorry to rain on the parade, Lee.First, I like Stickboy's verse. Second, I like your new verse. And I like Oswlek's comment about these being different moments in time. The only problem is that the logic of talking to a pen and paper while the guy is driving doesn't work. If talking to the pen and paper takes place in the present (say at a motel where he's stopped for the night, or at a coffee shop where he's trying to capture his jumbled, frenetic thoughts), then maybe the driving took place in the immediate past.LCK maybe there is no pen and paper not yet at least im not sure all songs should be taken so literally "oh what a feeling...when im dancing on the ceiling" hover boots?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted July 7, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted July 7, 2011 Sorry to rain on the parade, Lee. First, I like Stickboy's verse. Second, I like your new verse. And I like Oswlek's comment about these being different moments in time. The only problem is that the logic of talking to a pen and paper while the guy is driving still doesn't work, at least not for me. If talking to the pen and paper takes place in the present (say at a motel where he's stopped for the night, or at a coffee shop where he's trying to capture his jumbled, frenetic thoughts), then maybe the driving took place in the immediate past. I can't let it all pour out, behind the wheel I've gotta stop for coffee and a meal. (not very good, I know) Help me jot it down just right So I can keep on driving through the night Hands 10 and 2 and knuckles white... just how I feel LCK Hey, I appreciate you taking the time. You're not raining on my parade. I totally get what you're saying. As a matter of fact, I could've approached it that way from the beginning. I could rewrite extensively right now. But I echo Stick's sentiment in that, it really isn't literal. Of course I get that we stay true to the analogy. Make it work consistently. I don't know... I'm really trying to look at this from a listening point of view. You know? Bottom line, he's trying trying to decide if he can get away with sending her a note rather than a face to face. So he's asking for some help from his little live animated friends penny and papel. He's leaning toward leaving the note. Cause he's a ramblin' sorta guy. I guess. Or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kurdy Posted July 7, 2011 Members Share Posted July 7, 2011 Sorry to rain on the parade, Lee.First, I like Stickboy's verse. Second, I like your new verse. And I like Oswlek's comment about these being different moments in time. The only problem is that the logic of talking to a pen and paper while the guy is driving still doesn't work, at least not for me.If talking to the pen and paper takes place in the present (say at a motel where he's stopped for the night, or at a coffee shop where he's trying to capture his jumbled, frenetic thoughts), then maybe the driving took place in the immediate past. One possibility is that the guy could pull over to the side of the road. That's kind of a common scenario writers talk about--when an idea hits while driving, they pull over. However, I read over the lyrics again--I'm not so sure that's an issue. This is a guy who's leaving his wife, and is too much of a wimp to tell her. Not the most instantly likeable character. One way around that is to provide more background and details about what went wrong, and why he's leaving her; give us a reason to sympathize with him. Or you can make it funny. The scenario as presented in the lyrics as they are--the guy wants the pen and paper to do the work for him. He doesn't want to have to stop anything he's doing. Which makes it kind of funny--if you take that out, it's less funny. You could even change a few lines around to really drive home the humor, pun not intended, although I think they can work as is. Humor is important in a song like this, because like I said, make it serious and sincere sounding, and it's kinda hard to like the character unless we're given more information about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted July 7, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted July 7, 2011 OK! taking Lee's idea and munching it up a bit. I think you may be on to something there Mr. LCK. What's better? This: Stop for coffee, grab myself a mealStretch my legs, from out behind the wheelHelp me jot it down just rightSo I can drive on through the nightHands 10 and 2 and knuckles white... just how I feel Or this: And if you think I've got no heart, let's make a dealI will let it all pour out, behind the wheelIf you could jot it down just rightAs I drive on through the nightHands 10 and 2 and knuckles white... just how I feel Or maybe: And if you think I've got no heart, let's make a dealI'll stretch my legs, from out behind the wheelThen help me jot it down just rightSo I can drive on through the nightHands 10 and 2 and knuckles white... just how I feel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LCK Posted July 7, 2011 Members Share Posted July 7, 2011 OK! taking Lee's idea and munching it up a bit. I think you may be on to something there Mr. LCK. What's better? This: Stop for coffee, grab myself a mealStretch my legs, from out behind the wheelHelp me jot it down just rightSo I can drive on through the nightHands 10 and 2 and knuckles white... just how I feelOr this:And if you think I've got no heart, let's make a dealI will let it all pour out, behind the wheelIf you could jot it down just rightAs I drive on through the nightHands 10 and 2 and knuckles white... just how I feelOr maybe:And if you think I've got no heart, let's make a dealI'll stretch my legs, from out behind the wheelThen help me jot it down just rightSo I can drive on through the nightHands 10 and 2 and knuckles white... just how I feel I like the first one, but you could play around with it a little too. Stop for coffee, a fill-up and a meal.Gotta stretch my legs out from behind the wheel. I don't know if that scans, but... LCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted July 7, 2011 Members Share Posted July 7, 2011 I like the first one, but you could play around with it a little too.Stop for coffee, a fill-up and a meal.Gotta stretch my legs out from behind the wheel.I don't know if that scans, but...LCK ^ That's my favorite so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted July 7, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted July 7, 2011 One possibility is that the guy could pull over to the side of the road. That's kind of a common scenario writers talk about--when an idea hits while driving, they pull over.However, I read over the lyrics again--I'm not so sure that's an issue. This is a guy who's leaving his wife, and is too much of a wimp to tell her. Not the most instantly likeable character. One way around that is to provide more background and details about what went wrong, and why he's leaving her; give us a reason to sympathize with him. Or you can make it funny. The scenario as presented in the lyrics as they are--the guy wants the pen and paper to do the work for him. He doesn't want to have to stop anything he's doing. Which makes it kind of funny--if you take that out, it's less funny. You could even change a few lines around to really drive home the humor, pun not intended, although I think they can work as is. Humor is important in a song like this, because like I said, make it serious and sincere sounding, and it's kinda hard to like the character unless we're given more information about him. Interesting points. As far as "not the most likable". He's like a hundred guys you've met and you and me both. He's not bad, just human and making a mistake we all can relate with I think. Ramblin' Man. Cheatin' Songs. Etc. It's not unprecedented to have the protagonist have some warts. Antihero of love sorta deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted July 7, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted July 7, 2011 Yeah, I thnk I like that. Stop for coffee, a fill-up and a mealGotta stretch my legs, from out behind the wheelHelp me jot it down just rightSo I can drive on through the nightHands 10 and 2 and knuckles white... just how I feel Which then means in its entirety: Intro C1Paper and pen please write me a letterWhat I gotta say, you can say betterI'm tripping over words, my tongue is tiedBetter you spelling out the truth, than me telling lies V1Stop for coffee, a fill-up and a mealGotta stretch my legs, from out behind the wheelHelp me jot it down just rightSo I can drive on through the nightHands 10 and 2 and knuckles white... just how I feel C2Paper and pen please write me a letterWhat I gotta say, you can say betterI was coming home, then I passed our signOutta words to say, you gotta drop her a line V2And if you are... sharper than a blade of steelJust be kind, we both know how it feelsAnd if your ink runs or smearsDon't write a word about these tearsJust say I loved her all the years... that it was real B1Can't look her eye to eyeStanding face to faceCause I start to wonder whyI start to lose my place, so... C3Paper and pen please write me a letterWhat I gotta say, you can say betterI was coming home, then I got off trackSomebody's got to let her know... I ain't comin' back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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