Box You In or Throwin' Stones

[Ontological]

This one is truly in the works. Usually I have a recording to accompany my posts but I'm still working on it. I just wanted to see if these lyrics convey my idea accurately. The song is about a father who has accidentally caused the death of his daughter and his struggle to keep a relationship alive with his wife. Plus I'm not sure about the title for this one either? I know, i know, "Lovely topic!" I'm on a bit of a sad song kick lately. I don't know why? Here are the lyrics:

 

Box You In

 

Verse 1

Throwin

[Lee Knight]

It's lovely. I don't think it gets your story across though. I wouldn't have any idea of that back story just reading this. That said, I love the images you've created.

 

So, verse 1 is about the mourners? Maybe say,

 

Hear them mourn in a circle

 

That way you're saying a lot with just one word. That someone died. And they're crying.

 

Verse 2 looks like a place to clarify that "you're" the one responsible for her accidental death.

 

Sittin

[Oswlek]

I completely agree with Lee. About everything.

 

I prefer "Throwing Stones" as a title to "Box You In" but I think there might be a better one out there. If you go with "Throwing Stones" (which is a great image, btw) it might be helpful to work that phrase in somewhere else, even as a backing while singing a different line.

[Lee Knight]

 

I prefer "Throwing Stones" as a title to "Box You In" but I think there might be a better one out there. If you go with "Throwing Stones" (which is a great image, btw) it might be helpful to work that phrase in somewhere else, even as a backing while singing a different line.

 

 

I was just thinking along the same lines. That it would be nice to reap the benefit of that phrase. As a lyrical hook and for illumination on the story.

 

But the only thing that

Still remains

is here

See your heart

It starts

To box you in my dear

Together alone

Till we stop throwing stones

[Oswlek]

 

I was just thinking along the same lines. That it would be nice to reap the benifit of that phrase. As a lyrical hook and for illumination on the story. But the only thing that Still remains is here See your heart It starts To box you in my dear Together alone Till we stop throwing stones

 

 

I like it. Not only do you get another usage, but a dual meaning as well. In the open "throwing stones" is a calm, meditative action. In yours it is combative.

[rhino55]

 

I like it. Not only do you get another usage, but a dual meaning as well. In the open "throwing stones" is a calm, meditative action. In yours it is combative.

 

 

yeah

[LCK]

Very nice lyric. Truly. It may have some gaps, but I'll wait to hear the tune before commenting.

 

Favorite bit...

 

Well who stole the rising sun

Yeah who loved the broken one

Oh, I did

Yeah I did

 

LCK

[oldgitplayer]

I think this song has a powerful and emotive feel to it.

As I read through the posts, I found myself generally disagreeing with the suggestions.

Then I hit LCK post, who said exactly what I felt.

More than that, I found I had already re-titled the song, 'The broken one'.

 

Without music it's hard to say, but from the lyric, I would change the verse/chorus arrangement, using these strong lines to end the chorus:

 

Well who stole the rising sun

Yeah who loved the broken one

Oh, I did

Yeah I did

 

My enjoyment came from not knowing the story precisely - the pleasure lies in the mood of this story - with its images and undefined suggestions.

 

Anyway - that's the sort of stuff I do to my songs. When I look at them after a few weeks, they often get a radical cut and paste, and a tried in different ways.

[Oswlek]

 

I think this song has a powerful and emotive feel to it. As I read through the posts, I found myself generally disagreeing with the suggestions. Then I hit LCK post, who said exactly what I felt. More than that, I found I had already re-titled the song, 'The broken one'. Without music it's hard to say, but from the lyric, I would change the verse/chorus arrangement, using these strong lines to end the chorus: Well who stole the rising sun Yeah who loved the broken one Oh, I did Yeah I did My enjoyment came from not knowing the story precisely - the pleasure lies in the mood of this story - with its images and undefined suggestions. Anyway - that's the sort of stuff I do to my songs. When I look at them after a few weeks, they often get a radical cut and paste, and a tried in different ways.

 

 

I agree that this board (myself included) often request too much clarity. I've said multiple times that leaving room for the listener to interject their own experience in is a powerful tool.

 

But in this case, I didn't get a single inkling from the lyrics what the backstory was. If it is important for the OP to share the story he does need to drop a few more hints, IMO.

[bee3]

Knowing the backstory before reading the lyrics, I found myself depressed thinking about what would happen if, God forbid, something horrible like this happened to me.

 

Powerful stuff.

[Ontological]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

 

-Lee I like your suggestion about hear the crowd "mourn". That should work well.

 

I think I gave the back story as a way to help interpret some of the songs imagery. I do like an element of mystery surrounding the lyric. Spelling it out too much I think ruins the mood of the song. Plus the listener is allowed to ascribe whatever meaning they want. I guess I shouldn't have asked do my lyrics convey my theme accurately but do they evoke an emotional response? Do they allow the reader to sympathize with the character even though they might not fully understand what he's been/going through. The song is a strange one musically as you'll find out soon enough (lot's of key changes) So the the lyric follows suit in that regard. It's a mixture of current thoughts mixed with flash backs and memories that try to help the listener to see the struggle this man is going through. Maybe then what I'm really asking is does this song communicate an emotional struggle accurately. For example when I came up with the line:

 

take your time

take a minute

take an hour

Just decide if I die

Am I forgiven

 

I was thinking that the man wants his wife/lover whatever to decide fairy quickly if she will ever forgive him for the death of their child. I know it's not perfectly stated but I don't want it to be. I was just thinking of a distant relative out in Arizona who lost their 4 year old son because a worker backed his truck up over the boy and crushed him to death. Now the father was watching the two boys so he in essence was responsible for his children's safety. You just wonder if the wife in the back of her mind feels, "If only my husband were more responsible my child would still be alive?" Now that's gotta be absolute potential for the death of a marriage. If she allows that thought to fester even if she doesn't say it her actions will turn her away from wanting any contact with her husband. Thus the husband feels like maybe if he dies she could finally forgive him? So yeah, it would take a lot of meditating on the lyric to pick that up but I think the words aren't so obscure that one couldn't do that if they tried. At least I hope.

[LCK]

 

I do like an element of mystery surrounding the lyric. Spelling it out too much I think ruins the mood

 

 

I agree. But again, a lot of this may depend on how the tune carries the message across.

 

LCK

[Oswlek]

Thanks for the feedback guys. -Lee I like your suggestion about hear the crowd "mourn". That should work well. I think I gave the back story as a way to help interpret some of the songs imagery. I do like an element of mystery surrounding the lyric. Spelling it out too much I think ruins the mood of the song. Plus the listener is allowed to ascribe whatever meaning they want. I guess I shouldn't have asked do my lyrics convey my theme accurately but do they evoke an emotional response? Do they allow the reader to sympathize with the character even though they might not fully understand what he's been/going through. The song is a strange one musically as you'll find out soon enough (lot's of key changes) So the the lyric follows suit in that regard. It's a mixture of current thoughts mixed with flash backs and memories that try to help the listener to see the struggle this man is going through. Maybe then what I'm really asking is does this song communicate an emotional struggle accurately. For example when I came up with the line: take your time take a minute take an hour Just decide if I die Am I forgiven I was thinking that the man wants his wife/lover whatever to decide fairy quickly if she will ever forgive him for the death of their child. I know it's not perfectly stated but I don't want it to be. I was just thinking of a distant relative out in Arizona who lost their 4 year old son because a worker backed his truck up over the boy and crushed him to death. Now the father was watching the two boys so he in essence was responsible for his children's safety. You just wonder if the wife in the back of her mind feels, "If only my husband were more responsible my child would still be alive?" Now that's gotta be absolute potential for the death of a marriage. If she allows that thought to fester even if she doesn't say it her actions will turn her away from wanting any contact with her husband. Thus the husband feels like maybe if he dies she could finally forgive him? So yeah, it would take a lot of meditating on the lyric to pick that up but I think the words aren't so obscure that one couldn't do that if they tried. At least I hope.

 

That's the thing. Even with the backstory, I didn't feel or connect with the protaganist much at all.

 

BTW, something like 90% of marriages that suffer the loss of a young child end in divorce, so your thoughts are definitely correct. Despite my trepidation about the lyrics, I'm still very interested in hearing the delivery.

[Lee Knight]

I agree that this board (myself included) often request too much clarity.

 

Agreed. I've found myself writing in circles, based on input. BUT...

 

...that's not really a bad thing. I always approach input to my stuff with a "what have I got to lose?" mentality. Let me work the suggestions, digest the critique, and generally try to better my work. I've always got the original. Reverting back after "writing in circles", I still find I've incorporated something from the exercise.

 

I may start out disagreeing with a critique only to later see the point. Or the opposite, agree, work the suggestion, then ultimately revert. Revert with benefits?

 

And that's how I approach giving input. Ideas. Toss them out and let them by used or not. I'm certainly not "requesting" anything. I'm helping a bro in arms fight the good fight. Take what you will and leave the rest. Cause the writer knows best.

[Lee Knight]

Back to your lyric...

 

I don't believe songs have to "make sense". But they do need to provoke an emotion. By any means necessary. Your lyric does that. Would I understand it without backstory? No. Do I need to? No.

 

Looking forward to hearing this.

[bee3]

I was thinking that the man wants his wife/lover whatever to decide fairy quickly if she will ever forgive him for the death of their child. I know it's not perfectly stated but I don't want it to be. I was just thinking of a distant relative out in Arizona who lost their 4 year old son because a worker backed his truck up over the boy and crushed him to death. Now the father was watching the two boys so he in essence was responsible for his children's safety. You just wonder if the wife in the back of her mind feels, "If only my husband were more responsible my child would still be alive?" Now that's gotta be absolute potential for the death of a marriage. If she allows that thought to fester even if she doesn't say it her actions will turn her away from wanting any contact with her husband. Thus the husband feels like maybe if he dies she could finally forgive him? So yeah, it would take a lot of meditating on the lyric to pick that up but I think the words aren't so obscure that one couldn't do that if they tried. At least I hope.

This is exactly why it evoked a powerful response in me. You've described my worst nightmare. And I think about it a lot (as I'm a father of three young children). Hell, I can't even watch news anymore (I get the news I need on the weather report).

[Ontological]

Thanks all for your input. I do read and consider everything that's said. Whether I act on the suggestions really depend on 1. if I like the way it develops the story or theme 2. If the line is just too good not to work into the song 3. If it sings well. That's really my main criteria. I hope I haven't come off as ungrateful or unappreciative because that's not the case at all. I dig this place and all the feedback and suggestions. At times it's a bit humbling because you have to swallow your pride when someone says, "Hey man, those lyrics blow. You'd be better off doing x,y or z." Which is good. There certainly is "wisdom in a multitude of councilors".

[Lee Knight]

I hope I haven't come off as ungrateful or unappreciative because that's not the case at all.

 

You bastard!

 

No way you come off ungrateful. It's just fun and personally enriching to be able to to add to the pool of fodder. Writer knows best...

 

P.S. You better do what I say!!!

[Marshal]

Lovely, lovely.

 

Fist off, I would retype the chorus:

 

When you wake up you want to go to sleep again

Because every day it ends just like it did begin

You say the only thing that still remains is there

It

[Marshal]

I'm stating to warm up to: "See, your heart it starts to box you in my dear." I think a hesitation (comma) after "see" makes it seem like a more directed comment.

 

Yeah. I re-read your intro. The "Box you in" works fine. (Quite nicely, actually)

 

Awfully sad subject. You give it honor.

 

The phrase : "You say the only thing That still remains Is there" we don't know where "there" is. Is it some place in the past? Is it the dreams (nightmares) in the night? Is it some emotional place the female goes to grieve? Or is it always right there in front of them all the time (emotionally)? I guess I vote for that.

That phrase sets up the rest of chorus pattern, but I'm not able to put a good handle on what it means to me the listener.

[LeonardScaper]

Let's hear it ! ! ! !

 

[Ontological]

So I reworked the chorus and the ending. The chorus I felt was too long so I shortened it. And for the outro I really wanted an emotional kick in the gut and I really think this works. I'll have to do a video of it to see what you all think before I record it properly.

 

The Broken One

 

Verse 1

Throwin

[Ontological]

Couldn't figure out how to post the video on here so here's the youtube link:

 

 

[Oswlek]

Here you go.

 

[video=youtube;a2suA7OXQnc]

[Oswlek]

Sounds like you said, "an angel's going home" instead of "found her home" which I like better.

 

You have very creative layering sensibilities, so I'm sure the fully produced version might cure any issues, but right now it feels disjointed. The verse sounds great, and I can see the chorus working, but the bridge felt out of place. Because of that, it had the feel of three seperate songs in one.