Right the wrong..... finished?

[stickboymusic]

 

He's saying he doesn't really agree with you 100%. And the real logistics of working a commercial track prohibit him from backtracking at this point on a mild hunch. I do believe if he were agreeing with your assessment in a big way he'd go back and do it. I've seen him do it. But as time goes on in any sort of endeavor, the balance shifts from doable to not doable. All based on perceived merit. It's project management as much as anything.

 

 

Totally this, im not dissing your input.... i think the thing with other peoples lyrics is, we can always find "something" that could be changed (im sure we could do it with some great successful songs too) but if the thing in question isnt bothering the writer, or... if the suggestion is good but not going to make any real difference to the song then sometimes its better to leave it.... if i had real doubts on a lyrics but went with it, then got a great alternative i would definitely change it.... the problem with this song is it has a certain mood and vocal style..... which i could most probably replicate...but i was just in the right place when i recorded it.... and i think if i was to drop a line into it now it may sound disconnected or disjointed which i fear would be more distracting than a lyric that some people dont quite feel is working.

 

I always appreciate your suggestions though

[bee3]

but if the thing in question isnt bothering the writer, or... if the suggestion is good but not going to make any real difference to the song then sometimes its better to leave it.... if i had real doubts on a lyrics but went with it, then got a great alternative i would definitely change it.... the problem with this song is it has a certain mood and vocal style..... which i could most probably replicate...but i was just in the right place when i recorded it.... and i think if i was to drop a line into it now it may sound disconnected or disjointed which i fear would be more distracting than a lyric that some people dont quite feel is working. I always appreciate your suggestions though

 

Exactly why I started the "You know what would be interesting thread"...

[Capn Spanky]

You should never ask people who anal retentively obsess over lyrics whether your song is done.

To me, both the lyrics and song

[Oswlek]

You should never ask people who anal retentively obsess over lyrics whether your song is done. To me, both the lyrics and song

[stickboymusic]

You should never ask people who anal retentively obsess over lyrics whether your song is done.   To me, both the lyrics and song

[LCK]

 

Totally this, im not dissing your input.... i think the thing with other peoples lyrics is, we can always find "something" that could be changed (im sure we could do it with some great successful songs too) but if the thing in question isnt bothering the writer, or... if the suggestion is good but not going to make any real difference to the song then sometimes its better to leave it.... if i had real doubts on a lyrics but went with it, then got a great alternative i would definitely change it.... the problem with this song is it has a certain mood and vocal style..... which i could most probably replicate...but i was just in the right place when i recorded it.... and i think if i was to drop a line into it now it may sound disconnected or disjointed which i fear would be more distracting than a lyric that some people dont quite feel is working. I always appreciate your suggestions though

 

 

I understand all that. And I didn't mean to sound demeaning. What I said was as more a confession of my own inadequacies than anything else, though I'm pretty sure it didn't come off that way.

 

I can never let anything rest, not at least until I feel I've exhausted all possibilities. This is why some songs can take me years to finish.

 

Johnny Mercer won an Oscar for the lyric to "The Days of Wine and Roses." Yet 14 years later he changed one word because it had been bugging him all that time.

 

Original line: "the golden smile that introduced me to the days of wine and roses and you."

 

Rewrite: "the golden laugh that introduced me to the days of wine and roses and you."

 

And even though Mercer was a master craftsman, I don't think either line is without flaws.

 

LCK

[oldgitplayer]

I didn't get it until I remembered you speak English without fully pronouncing your "r's". Hint for the rest of you Americans who didn't get it either: one man's floors is another man's ceiling... LCK

 

 

Let's Call the Whole Thing Off

 

Things have come to a pretty pass

Our romance is growing flat,

For you like this and the other

While I go for this and that,

Goodness knows what the end will be

Oh I don't know where I'm at

It looks as if we two will never be one

Something must be done:

You say either and I say either,

You say neither and I say neither

Either, either

Neither, neither

Let's call the whole thing off.

 

You like potato and I like potahto

You like tomato and I like tomahto

Potato, potahto,

Tomato, tomahto.

Let's call the whole thing of

But oh, if we call the whole thing off

Then we must part

and oh, if we ever part, then that might break my heart

 

So if you like pyjamas

and I like pyjahmas,

I'll wear pyjamas

and give up pyajahmas

for we know we need each other so

we better call the whole thing off

let's call the whole thing off.

 

You say laughter and I say larfter

You say after and I say arfter

Laughter, larfter

after arfter

Let's call the whole thing off,

You like vanilla and I say vanella

you saspiralla, and I saspirella

vanilla vanella

chocolate strawberry

let's call the whole thing of

but oh if we call the whole thing of

then we must part

and oh, if we ever part,

then that might break my heart

 

So if you go for oysters

and I go for ersters

I'll order oysters

and cancel the ersters

for we know we need each other

we better call the calling off off,

let's call the whole thing off.

 

I say father, and you say pater,

I saw mother and you say mater

Pater, mater

Uncle, auntie

let's call the whole thing off.

 

I like bananas and you like banahnahs

I say Havana and I get Havahnah

Bananas, banahnahs

Havana, Havahnah

Go your way, I'll go mine

 

So if I go for scallops

and you go for lobsters,

So all right no contest

we'll order lobseter

For we know we need each other

we better call the calling off off,

let's call the whole thing off.

[Lee Knight]

I understand all that. And I didn't mean to sound demeaning. What I said was as more a confession of my own inadequacies than anything else, though I'm pretty sure it didn't come off that way. I can never let anything rest, not at least until I feel I've exhausted all possibilities. This is why some songs can take me years to finish. Johnny Mercer won an Oscar for the lyric to "The Days of Wine and Roses." Yet 14 years later he changed one word because it had been bugging him all that time. Original line: "the golden smile that introduced me to the days of wine and roses and you." Rewrite: "the golden laugh that introduced me to the days of wine and roses and you." And even though Mercer was a master craftsman, I don't think either line is without flaws. LCK

Not to derail Stick's thread but I think this is great topic and could use some airing out. I am all for rewriting. I hope that is obvious. I'm typically not in too much of a hurry because I have something else in the fire simultaneously. So I like to work out the kinks before I get to the... production stage.

Once I've entered into the production stage, it becomes more difficult to fix some things. A chord progression played by five instruments. A single line of lyric or melody.

That's not to say it isn't frequently warranted. "Damn, I wish we'd caught that before I started recording. Oh well, I'll rip it up and fix.." You do that sometimes. You have to sometimes.

But there is the law of diminishing returns. Johnny Mercer would be less inclined to rewrite a lyric if Bing said, "I like it as is Johnny. I'm already singing it and we've got it arranged. It's great, leave it." The point of diminishing returns. More than likely, Johnny knew best and Bing was settling. Obviously this is all hypothetical. But the point is one of reality. It isn't laziness, it is the balancing of two things, the art, and the practicality of delivering.

"Wait, I've just got to finish God's nose here... it needs just a little more..."

Leave it Michaelangelo, he looks great. We open tomorrow!!!!

I guess that's where we differ. For me, making sure the song is 100% there is always the first priority.

The song will never be 100%. There is always an area ripe for improvement. Stick has inserted production in his cycle of song completion. Delivery. So do I. So it's not a question of not "making sure the song is 100% there is always the first priority", it's more a question of the realities of finishing. And, to be honest, the natural differences of opinion on just what is actually "better".

Case in point, I rarely have anything to offer Stick's songs. I always see something I'd do different and make suggestions. Ideas are free. But Stick has a target that is not always apparent at first glance to me. So I make an observation knowing it probably isn't pertinent, and that's not the point. Here are my thoughts. He lets all that input in and frequently ends up where he was aiming at the beginning. Thank God he does cause it's a pretty cool place where he ends up a lot of the time.

What I believe is "better" is usually not in the end. I like that, I get to learn.

[bee3]

I understand all that. And I didn't mean to sound demeaning. What I said was as more a confession of my own inadequacies than anything else, though I'm pretty sure it didn't come off that way. I can never let anything rest, not at least until I feel I've exhausted all possibilities. This is why some songs can take me years to finish. Johnny Mercer won an Oscar for the lyric to "The Days of Wine and Roses." Yet 14 years later he changed one word because it had been bugging him all that time. Original line: "the golden smile that introduced me to the days of wine and roses and you." Rewrite: "the golden laugh that introduced me to the days of wine and roses and you." And even though Mercer was a master craftsman, I don't think either line is without flaws. LCK

 

 

Some of us write songs. LCK practices versification... then sprinkles music on top of it. :poke:

[Lee Knight]

Some of us write songs. LCK practices versification... then sprinkles music on top of it. :poke:

But that emphasis on versification is so helpful to me. A kick in the nads from LCK is what helps me keep my lyrics tight. It's all a balance of what I think I need. And frequently that is an LCK nad kick!

[bee3]

But that emphasis on versification is so helpful to me. A kick in the nads from LCK is what helps me keep my lyrics tight. It's all a balance of what I think I need. And frequently that is an LCK nad kick!

LCK - Nad Kicker. I like it...

[Oswlek]

The song will never be 100%.

 

 

Neil Young once said if he waited until every song was perfect, he would only have written one.

 

Lennon voiced something similar in that he would have gone back and redone every single Beatles' song if it were possible.

 

That is just the nature of the beast.

[Capn Spanky]

Yeh its kinda why im here and is usually an invaluable resource

 

 

Hence the winky and smiley face.