12AT7 recommendation

[turnitto11]

Recently got a Blackheart Little Giant, and did some tube swapping to get the sound I want. I like how the 12AT7 got rid of some of the harshness and grainy sound the 12AX7 had.

 

So far, the 12AT7's I've tried are a no brand chinese one, and a JAN Philips.

 

To my surprise, I like the chinese one sounded better to my ears. The JAN was too bright.

 

So, I'm looking for a warmer 12AT7. Any recommendations appreciated! Thanks in advance

[mortatort]

In my little 5e3 I like an old RCA 12au7 in favor of 12ay or 12ax. Makes for a little less drive which is usually fine for me. I haven't tried a 12at7 in it.

 

I actually need a 12at7 for something else. If you wanna trade off the JAN lemme know...

[Deadbeat Son]

I honestly don't have a frame of reference for comparison purposes, but you can get a NOS Mullard CV4024 (12AT7) from most tube dealers for about $30. I used it to clean up an Orange.

[guitarcapo]

I talked to more than one old school amp tech who's said that using a 12AT7 in any place other than the phase inverter position is the equivalent of replacing the steering wheel in your car with motorcycle handlebars. It can be done.

You can drive around that way....but you're putting a part designed for something else in a place it wasn't intended with questionable results.

 

12AT7 tubes were never designed to be "audio tubes" but instead were designed to serve as a function tube. That being said, I've tried 12AT7 tubes in the preamp stages of my amps and the world didn't cleave in two.

They seemed kind of weak and the amp lacked sparkle, nothing to write home about. Actually I'm not a big fan of using preamp tubes in my amps with lower gain factors than the amp manufacturer recommends. You might get a bit more headroom, but the tone results are usually lame and not much better than just using the volume knob on your amp.

[apophis]

a 12at7 works wonders in the V1 position of my peavey ultra....works excellent as phase inverter also.. i use either JJ's or Penta Labs 12at7's

[panther_king]

Yeah, I use 12AT7 as a PI in my amp too.

 

I'd recommend maybe looking into a JJ.

[Matt Howell]

I would try a 5751, or a 12AY7 will make a big difference. A 12AT7 is best for a PI, they can be a little harsh. In my 5e3 Deluxe style amps I use a 12AT7 in the PI, and a 12AY7. I prefer Amperex Bugle Boy made in Holland if you can find them. The JAN Phillips 5751 can still be found reasonably priced.

[guitarcapo]

Going down a step in the gain factor dept is o.k....but doing it too much doesn't usually provide eye-opening performance.

These amps were voiced by their designers with certain tubes in mind...and while in the early days of amp design there were some crazy events ("Hey this BASS-man amp sounds like {censored} for bass guitar...but check it out...I just plugged my 6 string in and it sounds like GOD!")....usually the amp designers are in the right ballpark. If anything, using tubes with HIGHER gain factor seem to provide better results (like substituting that 12AY7 in a Deluxe for something with more gain)

 

Lower gain preamp tubes do give you headroom...but you lose all that sparkle and it sounds kind of sterile and solid state that way. At least with the vintage blackface and tweed Fender designs I've tried it on.

[pioneerprogress]

I came in here to recommend the JAN Phillips, but I see you've already done that.

It's too bad you didn't like them, as they are VERY reasonable.

[Casey4s]

 

I would try a 5751, or a 12AY7 will make a big difference. A 12AT7 is best for a PI, they can be a little harsh. In my 5e3 Deluxe style amps I use a 12AT7 in the PI, and a 12AY7. I prefer Amperex Bugle Boy made in Holland if you can find them. The JAN Phillips 5751 can still be found reasonably priced.

 

 

I agree with Matt on this one. Try a nice 5751 in that audio slot instead of the 12AT. The 12AT7's desig was intended as a utility tube like a driver for reverb or othe inductor circuits or as a PI. That does not mean that in a guitar amplifier if you like the sound better anyway then it's still cool.

 

The gain is the same on the 5751 as it is on the 12AT7. The 5751 was intended as an audio 9 pin replacement for the 6SL7 octal that had a gain of 70 in a lot of government circuits.

[turnitto11]

Hmmmm, 5751 sounds interesting...

[K-Bizzle]

Another vote for the 5751.

Get the gain drop of the AT7 without the thin harshness.

 

Though I do love the 12at7 for the pi position on every amp I've tried it on.

[FXR]

Get a 5751. The 12at7 can draw 10 times the current of a 12ax7. That can let the smoke out.

 

Lot's of people say they do it and get away with it. But lot's of people smoke crack too. At least know there can be serious consequences.

[strtdv]

 

I honestly don't have a frame of reference for comparison purposes, but you can get a NOS Mullard CV4024 (12AT7) from most tube dealers for about $30. I used it to clean up an Orange.

 

 

This.

 

You can get an unlabelled Mullard from the first production run (mottled as well as seamed), for under $30 easily.

[JBTubehead]

 

...the 5751....gain drop of the AT7 without the thin harshness...

100%.

 

Also highly recommend 12DW7/ECC832 for slight gain reduction.

[FastRedPonyCar]

I use both a GE 5751 and a nos mullard AT7 in the TITAN with excellent results.

 

The differences when dealing with tons of brootz is slight but noticable with dynamics and gives a little extra wiggle room with the gain knob.

[Casey4s]

 

100%. Also highly recommend 12DW7/ECC832 for slight gain reduction.

 

 

But one side of this tube has a gain of 20 like a 12AU7 and the other triode is like a 12AX7 with a gain of 100. It does not work well in all amps depending on the intended use in the circuit.

[JBTubehead]

Exactly. If using a 12AU7 (which reduces the gain equally with both triodes) is too much of a reduction, then just reduce one of the gain stages with a 12DW7. It really works slick.

[Mudder1310]

You'll find a lot of tube people find 12at7s a bit sterile. It would be just as easy, and probably sound better, to use a 12ay7, which tend to be more musical sounding tubes. If you needed more gain then a 5157 would fit the bill too.