Members Gammelpeter Posted January 17, 2011 Members Share Posted January 17, 2011 I have an old Hughes & Kettner ATS 120 1x12 combo at home. One of the first hybrid amps ever made.I had some spare Mesa tubes (one spax and a regular 12ax7) and decided to put them in. sound got fuller with slightly more gain and more bass. not a dramatic change soundwise.I'm not sure if I keep the Mesas in the amp or put the old ones back in. did you experience the same or did you get a totally different sound after changing the preamp tubes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sixtonoize Posted January 17, 2011 Members Share Posted January 17, 2011 That sounds about right.Changing tubes changes the tone...not dramatically, but noticeably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OverDriven Posted January 17, 2011 Members Share Posted January 17, 2011 As sixtonoise said, tubes don't make a major difference. They can add a little gain, high end or "grind", but they're never going to completely change the sound of the amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members iNx Posted January 17, 2011 Members Share Posted January 17, 2011 I disagree. Swap a Sovtek 12AX7 for a NOS Mullard long plate and the difference will be more than noticeable. It will be dramatic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BeëlzeM Posted January 17, 2011 Members Share Posted January 17, 2011 I'll have to agree. In my presonal experience pre tubes don't change the tone dramatically. All they vary in is a little high end as mentioned, gain or noise. They're all made from more or less the same materials and standard blueprints made ages ago. Powertubes are a different story though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Razsan Posted January 17, 2011 Members Share Posted January 17, 2011 I disagree. Swap a Sovtek 12AX7 for a NOS Mullard long plate and the difference will be more than noticeable. It will be dramatic. Can you illustrate this with a clip? Part of my problem is dropping big bucks for a tube when I have no real example of the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OverDriven Posted January 17, 2011 Members Share Posted January 17, 2011 I disagree. Swap a Sovtek 12AX7 for a NOS Mullard long plate and the difference will be more than noticeable. It will be dramatic. I've done the NOS thing. While there are some good sounding NOS tubes (like RFT for example), they still don't make the difference that some people claim. It's hype. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members iNx Posted January 17, 2011 Members Share Posted January 17, 2011 Can you illustrate this with a clip? Part of my problem is dropping big bucks for a tube when I have no real example of the difference. Don't have any, sorry. Price of initiation is about $60 +/- on ebay. It's worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Razsan Posted January 17, 2011 Members Share Posted January 17, 2011 Don't have any, sorry. Price of initiation is about $60 +/- on ebay. It's worth it. I wish I could go there...but the limited amount of clips available say this is hype and not truth. I watched 1 video of the Tone King, who while not the greatest player, is at least making comparisons. There was no difference between an EL34 new or NOS.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gammelpeter Posted January 17, 2011 Author Members Share Posted January 17, 2011 thing is I was expecting a bigger difference in tone because the original tubes were cheap non-labeled 12ax7s and the MESAs are special selected expensive ones. I also changed tubes in my other amp where the tonal difference was hardly noticeable. I tried 5 different tubes in the V1 position and also tried different cobinations in V1 and V2. No real difference. but maybe it's only my amp and there might be a more striking difference in amps with a simpler circuit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members eudaimonia02912 Posted January 17, 2011 Members Share Posted January 17, 2011 Some amps respond more than others. (Gosh, what a boring thing to say.) My XXX responded more to preamp tube changes than my Mark V does now, while my Mark V responds more to power tube changes than the XXX or my 5150s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hecticone Posted January 17, 2011 Members Share Posted January 17, 2011 thing is I was expecting a bigger difference in tone because the original tubes were cheap non-labeled 12ax7s and the MESAs are special selected expensive ones. I also changed tubes in my other amp where the tonal difference was hardly noticeable. I tried 5 different tubes in the V1 position and also tried different cobinations in V1 and V2. No real difference. but maybe it's only my amp and there might be a more striking difference in amps with a simpler circuit. Just because they are nonlabeled doesn't mean they are cheap tubes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sixtonoize Posted January 17, 2011 Members Share Posted January 17, 2011 ...and just because they're labeled MESA doesn't mean that they're guaranteed to sound better - only that they've been verified to fit within Mesa's electrical specs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gammelpeter Posted January 18, 2011 Author Members Share Posted January 18, 2011 yeah maybe I was expecting too much.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gatelyne Posted January 18, 2011 Members Share Posted January 18, 2011 The biggest difference Ive noticed doing a tube swap was switching preamp tubes from all sovtek to all jj. It wasnt a huge difference but it was equivalent to putting a thick blanket over the speakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members diocide Posted January 18, 2011 Members Share Posted January 18, 2011 thing is I was expecting a bigger difference in tone because the original tubes were cheap non-labeled 12ax7s and the MESAs are special selected expensive ones. I also changed tubes in my other amp where the tonal difference was hardly noticeable. I tried 5 different tubes in the V1 position and also tried different cobinations in V1 and V2. No real difference. but maybe it's only my amp and there might be a more striking difference in amps with a simpler circuit. Mesa tubes aren't specially selected or high end. According to my amp tech ( who's been working on amps for more than 35 years) they are usually one of two makes, either sovteks or shuangangs. Neither one are anything great. My amp has 4 Mesa labeled 12ax7s and they're sovteks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BeëlzeM Posted January 18, 2011 Members Share Posted January 18, 2011 Mesa tubes aren't specially selected or high end. According to my amp tech ( who's been working on amps for more than 35 years) they are usually one of two makes, either sovteks or shuangangs. Neither one are anything great. My amp has 4 Mesa labeled 12ax7s and they're sovteks. I like the Chinese Shuguangs because they're high gain and low noise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zozobra Posted January 18, 2011 Members Share Posted January 18, 2011 I have a bunch of old mullard, philips, brimar and other NOS preamp tubes and not one of them is in any of my amps. Sure they sound good but not appreciably better than anything else I have. In an old marshall it might (might) just make the difference but I wouldnt spend the cash to get there as tube rolling is an expensive business and you might get one that isnt great. I'm currently rocking shuguangs, tung-sol reissue, JJs and a sovtek LPS in the PI. You can pretty much buy all of those for the cost of 1 NOS mullard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fretout Posted January 18, 2011 Members Share Posted January 18, 2011 I finally changed the Power Tubes out in my early Dual Recto. I switched from EL-34s to 6L6GCs, both quartets are Mesa-branded tubes. I also noticed that the previous owner had purchased two separate pairs of EL-34s (different ratings from Mesa), but they had installed them correctly (one set on the outside sockets, the other pair on the inside sockets). The 6L6GCs I picked up might as well have been a quartet. They had the same identical ratings. The difference in tone was extremely different (obviously due to the change in tube type), but the response in the amp was much different than it was before. The amp feels much tighter (almost stiff), even compared to my other 6L6GC loaded Rectos. In short, it seems like the old tubes had a "tired" type of response, while the new power tubes seem really aggressive (not tone-wise, attack-wise). It made a HUGE difference in my amp, but again, there were several variables going on. In my Mark IVs, the tube changes didn't seem nearly as drastic, but had similar results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the_bleeding Posted January 18, 2011 Members Share Posted January 18, 2011 when i replaced the 7 dead preamp tubes in my marshall, the buzzing and popping stopped on the distortion channels. Other than that, they sounded hte same. And i put one of those nos Jan 5751's in the Clean channel, and it made it sound quite different. But thats expected going from a dying chinese 12ax7 to a fresh NOS 5751. It got brighter and warmer AT THE SAME TIME. It was just an all together good decision Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gammelpeter Posted January 18, 2011 Author Members Share Posted January 18, 2011 I finally changed the Power Tubes out in my early Dual Recto. I switched from EL-34s to 6L6GCs, both quartets are Mesa-branded tubes. I also noticed that the previous owner had purchased two separate pairs of EL-34s (different ratings from Mesa), but they had installed them correctly (one set on the outside sockets, the other pair on the inside sockets). The 6L6GCs I picked up might as well have been a quartet. They had the same identical ratings. The difference in tone was extremely different (obviously due to the change in tube type), but the response in the amp was much different than it was before. The amp feels much tighter (almost stiff), even compared to my other 6L6GC loaded Rectos. that's not a fair comparison since the new tubes are from a different kind.but I'm also considering changing some of the 12ax7s in my other amp to 12at7s or 12au7s to see what happens. I expect a drastic loss of gain and I hope the amp will get quieter.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarman967 Posted January 28, 2011 Members Share Posted January 28, 2011 that's not a fair comparison since the new tubes are from a different kind.but I'm also considering changing some of the 12ax7s in my other amp to 12at7s or 12au7s to see what happens. I expect a drastic loss of gain and I hope the amp will get quieter.... Here's my two cents on the subject.First of all, saying MESA tubes means nothing. Dig deeper, get into the tube thing a bit more, you won't be disapointed IMO.They don't make tubes but do test the ones the re-label fairly well for noise and microphonics.The sure fire way to know what tube you've got is to look at the plate structure. Dead give away. As far as a 12AT7 goes... I wouldnt put them in a high gain preamps gain stage if a gun was to my head. You can try it, but in my experience it will only castrate your sound. Noise can be a bad tube, dirty sockets or the maybe an retensioning is in order.Now a AT7 in the Phase inverter? Different story. Althought those tubes have less gain they usually have more output to drive the Power tubes. I really don't understand the comment about preamp tubes not making a big difference. In a high gain head they make ALL the difference.Power tubes? Not so much.Lower gain amps like Fender combo's for example will benefit considerately more from a power tube swap and a higher dissapation of the tube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarman967 Posted January 28, 2011 Members Share Posted January 28, 2011 I'll have to agree. In my presonal experience pre tubes don't change the tone dramatically. All they vary in is a little high end as mentioned, gain or noise. They're all made from more or less the same materials and standard blueprints made ages ago. Powertubes are a different story though. Every single tube swap I've ever done tells me otherwise.Not only does the gain and high end change with a tube swap, the EQ curve of particular brand tubes can impact the amp greatly.Only second to speakers swaps in my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members seth-ep Posted January 28, 2011 Members Share Posted January 28, 2011 i have mesa preamp tubes on my 5150, and let me tell you i need to get rid of them quick, i a/b my 5150 to another one and mine had alot more gain and it was darker sounding, which i dont really like, not sure what the other amp had but it wasnt something awesome sounding either if you ask me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarman967 Posted January 31, 2011 Members Share Posted January 31, 2011 i have mesa preamp tubes on my 5150, and let me tell you i need to get rid of them quick, i a/b my 5150 to another one and mine had alot more gain and it was darker sounding, which i dont really like, not sure what the other amp had but it wasnt something awesome sounding either if you ask me Once again, mesa doesn't make tubes.So basically until you actually look and see what type of tube is actually in the amp u may not be able to effectively.fix the problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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