Members Shask Posted June 25, 2011 Members Share Posted June 25, 2011 I still think if they ever get to about $100 I will buy one just to gut and rewire. These came out when the Nomad amps came out, and sound similar to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BryanMichael Posted June 25, 2011 Author Members Share Posted June 25, 2011 Thanks for the responses, but I'm still interested. Actually everything you guys are saying makes it sound MORE attractive to me, not less. I like clean amps, I like slightly dirty amps, I like "pushed" sounds. I don't need a ton of saturation or gain... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted June 25, 2011 Members Share Posted June 25, 2011 You'll find lots to like there. I think it's best in stereo with stereo FX in the loop but like most Boogie products it's a chameleon of versatility. What's the price? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sleewell Posted June 25, 2011 Members Share Posted June 25, 2011 what poweramp will you be using with it? i love mesa amps and i dont play the brootz either. i think their cleans and ODs get overlooked many times. i used to have a subway rocket reverb that had a great bluesy tone and the nomad 55 i used have was just a great all around rock amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BryanMichael Posted June 27, 2011 Author Members Share Posted June 27, 2011 I'm buying both a Formula and Studio Preamp and I will try them both out. My fear is that the Studio will sound only "marginally" better than the Formula and I will have wasted my time and money sorting this out, but I'm interested enough to give it a shot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cougar Hunter Posted June 27, 2011 Members Share Posted June 27, 2011 I'm buying both a Formula and Studio Preamp and I will try them both out. My fear is that the Studio will sound only "marginally" better than the Formula and I will have wasted my time and money sorting this out, but I'm interested enough to give it a shot... Trust me, the studio will sound DRASTICALLY better than the Formula. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shask Posted June 27, 2011 Members Share Posted June 27, 2011 They sound a lot different. I personally think the Studio sounds worse than a good Mark III or similar, but it is not a bad preamp. It has the basic Mark series sounds in it. It has a good clean, and the good fat, fluid lead channel. You can get the high gain Metallica/Dream Theater tones for the most part. The Formula on the other hand will have a good clean, but then the gain will be super flubby/bassy/mushy. It is really not possible to get the tight, dry tones the Studio can hit. I think that is why people hate the Formula so much. People expected an updated Studio pre (good setup on channels, knobs, options, etc...) but the tone is nothing alike. You really cant get the classic Mark series tones out of them... You may like it though. My dad has a mark IV and a Formula/50-50 rig. He likes them both equally... but, he also only plays clean... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members George Djentson Posted June 27, 2011 Members Share Posted June 27, 2011 Trust me, the studio will sound DRASTICALLY better than the Formula. this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BryanMichael Posted July 8, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 8, 2011 this. Well, after a couple of days with both...and comparing them to where I started, which is my Hughes & Kettner Tubeman Plus - I must say that I am disappointed and I disagree with the conclusions in this thread. First of all, IMO, the Tubeman is probably still my choice after spending all that money on acquiring these- secondly would be the Formula, then the Studio. Why? Well- as I said, I like clean sounds, I like PUSHED sounds, I like overdrive and for one thing, the EQ on the H&K is VERY dynamic, you can really sculpt with it and there is a transparency and definition (and yes, compressed type of overdrive sound) to the overdrive on the H&K. It is the most versatile of these IMO - Clean, Crunch, and Lead channels as well as a mid boost switch and a second "lead" switch for a different sound. The EQ is really what sets it apart though- 4 bands (Lo/Mid/High/Presence) and very musical. Second I would pick the Formula - Overall I find BOTH of the Mesa preamps a bit underwhelming compared to what I expected- the drive is wooly on them, but that is probably their character- but the EQ is just so "non responsive" IMO, especially on the Studio! The drive channel on the Studio seems to be a little bit better than the Formula, but really, the formula is much more versatile - the EQ is much more dynamic on the Formula than the Studio and the clean channel kicks the Studios ASS, but the studio has a cool spring reverb. Anyway, thanks for the responses, but it was as I feared, the Studio was only marginally better than the formula, and the formula is much more versatile. Anyone want to buy a stunningly good condition studio pre? It's ULTRA clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members eudaimonia02912 Posted July 8, 2011 Members Share Posted July 8, 2011 Well, after a couple of days with both...and comparing them to where I started, which is my Hughes & Kettner Tubeman Plus - I must say that I am disappointed and I disagree with the conclusions in this thread. First of all, IMO, the Tubeman is probably still my choice after spending all that money on acquiring these- secondly would be the Formula, then the Studio.Why? Well- as I said, I like clean sounds, I like PUSHED sounds, I like overdrive and for one thing, the EQ on the H&K is VERY dynamic, you can really sculpt with it and there is a transparency and definition (and yes, compressed type of overdrive sound) to the overdrive on the H&K. It is the most versatile of these IMO - Clean, Crunch, and Lead channels as well as a mid boost switch and a second "lead" switch for a different sound. The EQ is really what sets it apart though- 4 bands (Lo/Mid/High/Presence) and very musical.Second I would pick the Formula - Overall I find BOTH of the Mesa preamps a bit underwhelming compared to what I expected- the drive is wooly on them, but that is probably their character- but the EQ is just so "non responsive" IMO, especially on the Studio! The drive channel on the Studio seems to be a little bit better than the Formula, but really, the formula is much more versatile - the EQ is much more dynamic on the Formula than the Studio and the clean channel kicks the Studios ASS, but the studio has a cool spring reverb. Anyway, thanks for the responses, but it was as I feared, the Studio was only marginally better than the formula, and the formula is much more versatile. Anyone want to buy a stunningly good condition studio pre? It's ULTRA clean. How much for the studio? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cougar Hunter Posted July 8, 2011 Members Share Posted July 8, 2011 How much for the studio? If he backs out, tell me how much for the studio. I could kick myself for selling my Quad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members primeholy Posted July 8, 2011 Members Share Posted July 8, 2011 If he backs out, tell me how much for the studio. I could kick myself for selling my Quad. Kick yoself in da nuts mufucha!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cougar Hunter Posted July 8, 2011 Members Share Posted July 8, 2011 Kick yoself in da nuts mufucha!!!!!! done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members primeholy Posted July 8, 2011 Members Share Posted July 8, 2011 done! My man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BryanMichael Posted July 8, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 8, 2011 $495 shipped. its what ive got in it. Its super clean i can provide pics pm me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tech21man Posted July 8, 2011 Members Share Posted July 8, 2011 Dude, with all honesty, a couple of days is nothing to understand how the studio works, or even the formula. You come from a semi solid state preamp which is the tube man plus to a preamp (studio) which is the epitome of high gain lead tones. What is really different and confusing though is this: EQ on the tubeman is, indeed after all the distortion effects. Which makes it comparable to the graphic on the mesa as far as position goes. Pressence is nothing really. Pressence control circuits is attenuations of some highs in the power amp. It also stops working when negative feedback is taken out of the circuit for example when you push the {censored} out of a small wattage amp. I don't really mind that small amps don't have pressence controls, I find it natural. So in the tubeman plus it is just a band. What is real interesting is the "bass mid treble" on the mesa. They are pre distortion. The closest thing is putting a three band tube screamer or booster in front of the amp: Bass------the more you boost the more it distorts. It becomes wooly like a fuzz pedal. Mids------the more you distort the more you focus on certain frequencies. Can make the sound a bit fuller can also make it boxier. Treble is where it is with the marks-------It is the first in line and it takes and distrubutes signal to the rest. You have got to keep it above 5-6 in my oppinion. It adds gain as a result. All of the above are fed from the vol 1 control, if it is lower than 7 you usually don't get super high gain tones. Forget the bass mid treble labels, replace them with flub, body, saturation. Settings like treble at 10/10 and the others at 0/10 will actually give you a pretty goog tone. Optimum settings are treble 6-7, mids 0-3 or 4, bass 0 to 2/10. lead drive accordingly. Fat or bright on or off. Then you go to your graphic. THIS is your eq. As you know it from hughes and kettner. Your 6,6 khz slider is your "pressence". The sliders follow a sort of logarithmic increase. At the end of the move they provide the most prominent result. Scoop those mids, cranck the other accordingly and play some vintage DT or metallica riffs. Final trick> The A,B outs are a full gain stage. They do squash and drown the sound a bit along with the recording out circuit. If you don't go stereo, bypass them and feed your power amp with the effects send set on low or hi whichever sounds best. Much more open direct and transparent sound. You can use the A out in the guitar input (one of the two I think) as a boost with a trick, I can't remember correctly. If these are done correctly, you will get a great mesa sound, totally different than the usual and from the Hughes and kettner. Though their "colour" will not be the same, the "quality" if you can imagine responsiveness, sound dimensions, "loudness", push and projection in the studio in my oppinion bury the hughes and kettner. But it is a matter of taste: if you do like what the hughes and kettner does then this is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cron Posted July 8, 2011 Members Share Posted July 8, 2011 My studio pre sounds sexy through my 2:100. Thats all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BryanMichael Posted July 10, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 10, 2011 Dude, with all honesty, a couple of days is nothing to understand how the studio works, or even the formula. You come from a semi solid state preamp which is the tube man plus to a preamp (studio) which is the epitome of high gain lead tones. What is really different and confusing though is this: EQ on the tubeman is, indeed after all the distortion effects. Which makes it comparable to the graphic on the mesa as far as position goes. Pressence is nothing really. Pressence control circuits is attenuations of some highs in the power amp. It also stops working when negative feedback is taken out of the circuit for example when you push the shit out of a small wattage amp. I don't really mind that small amps don't have pressence controls, I find it natural. So in the tubeman plus it is just a band. What is real interesting is the "bass mid treble" on the mesa. They are pre distortion. The closest thing is putting a three band tube screamer or booster in front of the amp: Bass------the more you boost the more it distorts. It becomes wooly like a fuzz pedal. Mids------the more you distort the more you focus on certain frequencies. Can make the sound a bit fuller can also make it boxier. Treble is where it is with the marks-------It is the first in line and it takes and distrubutes signal to the rest. You have got to keep it above 5-6 in my oppinion. It adds gain as a result. All of the above are fed from the vol 1 control, if it is lower than 7 you usually don't get super high gain tones. Forget the bass mid treble labels, replace them with flub, body, saturation. Settings like treble at 10/10 and the others at 0/10 will actually give you a pretty goog tone. Optimum settings are treble 6-7, mids 0-3 or 4, bass 0 to 2/10. lead drive accordingly. Fat or bright on or off. Then you go to your graphic. THIS is your eq. As you know it from hughes and kettner. Your 6,6 khz slider is your "pressence". The sliders follow a sort of logarithmic increase. At the end of the move they provide the most prominent result. Scoop those mids, cranck the other accordingly and play some vintage DT or metallica riffs. Final trick> The A,B outs are a full gain stage. They do squash and drown the sound a bit along with the recording out circuit. If you don't go stereo, bypass them and feed your power amp with the effects send set on low or hi whichever sounds best. Much more open direct and transparent sound. You can use the A out in the guitar input (one of the two I think) as a boost with a trick, I can't remember correctly. If these are done correctly, you will get a great mesa sound, totally different than the usual and from the Hughes and kettner. Though their "colour" will not be the same, the "quality" if you can imagine responsiveness, sound dimensions, "loudness", push and projection in the studio in my oppinion bury the hughes and kettner. But it is a matter of taste: if you do like what the hughes and kettner does then this is it. Dude, thanks a lot for this post. Your info is right on, and I spent more time with both preamps and while the overdrive channel of the Studio DOES sound better overall than the Formula, I'm afraid that my application is probably different than most people. I am recoding at home exclusively, not playing out, not even running a power amp and cab, just recording direct. I have a POD HD 500, and I like it, but I always liked it better when I ran the Tubeman preamp right into the pod, mostly on a slightly pushed clean sound (on the Tubeman) - it gave me some additional give and feel (like...a tube ) - but I know the Tubeman is a hybrid circuit, in fact it's pretty obvious when you open the thing up and see two clipping diodes (LED's no less!) working with the lead channel - the clean and crunch channels seem to be using the tube alone though... Anyway, the bottom line is that I had a bunch of OD/Distortion boxes and I thought that if I liked the Tubeman, I could probably get rid of several things and just get one kick ass preamp- hence the Boogie experiment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kelly Jackson Posted September 30, 2014 Members Share Posted September 30, 2014 In what ways? I don't play metal or Teh Brootz. Do you like the solid state clipping of the V Twin over the Formula's overdriven tube sound? I've heard them both but haven't played them both. The Formula seems less "focused" and "tubey" (which makes sense because it has 5 tubes in it for the various gain stages as opposed to the V Twin's single tube per channel plus clipping diodes for the distortion) ? I don't play brootz. I owned the v-twin rack' date=' and it sounded "pretty good". I played a Formula at the store, and HATED it. Weird, flubby, bizzarre dirty channel. dreadful. The studio just sounds awesome. Awe-inspiring, really. [/quote'] So you would give this preamp a bad review because you spent 5 minutes playing one at your local music store? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members klinejp Posted May 17, 2015 Members Share Posted May 17, 2015 I purchased one a few months ago and liked it so much that I bought a backup. The tones are phenomenal, and it is very simple to use. I particularly love the "liquid gain" and "black face" channels, but the alternate lead channel is awesome... I set it couple with the scooped graphic EQ. Here is a a take from band rehearsal the other night illustrating the liquid gain tone (lead channel full gain). Ibanez Jem 7V through BK Butler Tube Driver, Joyo Phaser, Formula Pre, Deluxe Memory Man, modded Mesa 20/20, and Carvin 2X12 cabinet recorded with a pair of SM57s. http://www.reverbnation.com/musictherapyexperiment/song/23386812-new-friends-live-from-guitardis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted May 19, 2015 Members Share Posted May 19, 2015 I purchased one a few months ago and liked it so much that I bought a backup. The tones are phenomenal, and it is very simple to use. I particularly love the "liquid gain" and "black face" channels, but the alternate lead channel is awesome... I set it couple with the scooped graphic EQ. Here is a a take from band rehearsal the other night illustrating the liquid gain tone (lead channel full gain). Ibanez Jem 7V through BK Butler Tube Driver, Joyo Phaser, Formula Pre, Deluxe Memory Man, modded Mesa 20/20, and Carvin 2X12 cabinet recorded with a pair of SM57s. http://www.reverbnation.com/musictherapyexperiment/song/23386812-new-friends-live-from-guitardis Nice tones you got there. Those are speakers? Sounds like the recording outs. Regardless, I found it impossible to get good crunchy stuff out of the lead channels. The graphic was a complete necessity just to make the tones listenable. I eventually abandoned those for another pre and pedals. The one killer on my Formula is Lead 2 with the full V scoop. That one is truly monstrous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members klinejp Posted December 30, 2015 Members Share Posted December 30, 2015 I record and perform with these all of the time. I own two of them. They are amazing units. One of the gain channels is much like a Marshall Plexi, while the other is much like a Mesa Rectifier. When I cascade my BK Butler Tube Driver into the "liquid gain" channel, I get a violin tone much like Eric Johnson's. The Black Face channel sounds like a Fender Twin... nice cleans.. The Mesa lead channel with a Boss DS-1 cascaded in it is nice and tight for Metal. Channel switching is nice and smooth too.... Beautiful piece of engineering, and records great. IMHO, if you can't get good tones out of this, a Mesa power amp, and a good speaker cab, you're doing it wrong. I used the Mesa FormulaPre on all of the tracks of our new album, and you can listen to it here. It's a great piece of equipment, and I can't recommend it highly enough. Getting a lot of sustain / gain and tight picking attack requires cascading gain in my experience, and too much saturation at one gain stage sounds undefined. The preamp has plenty of gain, but for heavily distorted tones you have to cascade pedals into it... All of my favorite players use cascading gain to get their tones, and don't rely solely on the amp or preamp to get it. A germanium fuzz face and Tube Driver are awesome, and the Boss DS-1 works great with this thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Andrew_B13 Posted March 20, 2020 Members Share Posted March 20, 2020 Don't want to waste your time with the argument for or against the formula. A few steps need to be done: 1. Change tubes (read the manual about different gain stages, and install tubes according to the gain stage). Best tubes to my taste is 12ax7 short plate Tungsol. I have tested them for gain (Orange Vt1000 tester) and used lower gain tubes on clean chanel and higher gain on drive chanel. 2. Use overdrive in front of drive chanel. This is changes everything. (I use mainly Boss SD-1 or Fulltone Full-drive2). If to get into details, it will push your tubes, like on any tube amp and give you EQ curve before distortion. 3. Use Recording(hi gain / low gain) or Normal outputs at the back according to the situation and setup. P. S. Clean chanel will sound marvelous no matter what you do, but drive depends on above steps. Best Regards Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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