I guess pickups do matter in woods after all...

[satannica]

So I recently ordered up a set of bare knuckle war pigs for my Gibson v. Rushed to the door to meet the nice ups man with my new toys and ripped into my v to give its new lessee of life.

 

Well after two days of working with it, was sorely disappointed. Mud city, population me. Couldn't get anything nice out of it, either in concert pitch or in b tuning that wasn't just desperately bad, despite checking measurements of pickup heights, action and everything several times.

 

So I set about beating a hasty retreat and fitting back up the emg pickups that came out of it - only really changed them out to try a new flavour. So, the guitar I had the emg pickups destined for, the ltd michael amott v, was pickup-less. So I though, what the hey, I'll try the war pigs in that, seeing as I didn't like the Duncan jb/59 set that it came with.

 

Holy he'll it sings. The war pigs just work in that guitar. It's awesome. Meanwhile the Gibson has the emgs back in and is back to being my brutal workhorse and singing like a champ.

 

Cool story bro, but thinking about it. Both are 24 3/4 scale, both are tune-o-matic bridges, both are mahogany set neck guitars, both have ebony fretboards. Two different pickup sets, two very different results. I was set to send the war pigs back but nope, definitely found a good home in the ltd. And the Gibson can stay with what works best, a pair of 18v emg pickups.

 

I also bought a new bass... Just in case you were wondering what the other toys were. It's a 70s Japanese p bass and it's the best neck I ever felt on a bass. Tasty.

[yourguitarhero]

What wood was each guitar body?

 

Jap Fender basses play real nice

[satannica]

Both mahogany.

 

The only real difference is the Amott has a Maple top to it, which of course makes a difference, but being a LTD I'm not sure exactly how deep that goes. It could just be a thin veneer. Both guitars tuned to B with Ernie Ball 12-56 (which I think are too heavy for me, may go down a gauge).

 

With the warpigs, the gibson sounded like arse, but with the EMGs, it shines and does what it should, no overly heavy bass frequencies. In the Amott, the Warpigs are just the reverse, instead of sounding overly bassy and undefined, they sound clear, crisp and exactly what the BK site said they would do.

 

I'm discounting wiring errors too; ignoring that I've been wielding a solder pen since I was 14, the same circuit was put straight into the Amott V with no wiring mods, other than unsoldering the warpigs to route the wiring through the channels. Also, that's one thing I double checked when trying to make it work for me.

 

All I can say is it's just another tale of one guitar not liking a certain pickup. Not a bad reflection on BK bear in mind, I have an Ibanez with a Dimarzio Super Distortion that I can't wait to change out, despite Super Ds sounding awesome in three other guitars I have (including another Ibanez). It just doesn't work with that guitar.

[timmyfirst]

it also depends on where the mahogany is from! Indian mahogany is a lot different to Honduran.

 

I've gone Bare Knuckle in my Vanquish guitars, purely because i trust the guys at Vanquish and they said their guitars sound best with them. I've used Seymours for years but i do sometimes find them a little brittle.

[satannica]

True. I've always heralded the fact that woods matter more to the guitar tone than all else, and I guess this was just a very direct example.

[LA-Ü-RA]

The one thing I hate about passives...it is challenging at times to find the right pickups for each guitar. I pulled EMG's out of all of my guitars but then struggled to find the right pickups for each guitar. Took a while but I got things where I want them. I should have left EMG's in a few but once I started, I couldn't stop. Really diggin' the dynamics that I get with passives although I really loved 85's in the bridge of most of my guitars also.

[yourguitarhero]

Can you mix EMGs and passives in the same guitar?

Like.. put an EMG in the bridge and a P90 in the neck?

[Pepi]

This is why I stick with Seymour pups. Their webpage pretty much tells you what you need. I took their advice on the SH11 for a bright sounding guitar and this is one of the best pickups I've ever owned.

[satannica]

I bought something based of the SD site's advice before too. It didn't work. TBH I think the only thing that works is educated guesses and asking people who own similar guitars. But even I did that with the BKs and it was totally wrong.

[mhr74]

Great success on the swap!

[Krank'N]

That maple veneer makes all the difference in retaining some highs. If you have a V67 then that big plastic pickguard sucks up some highs. Ive found very few pups that sound good in a v67. You could use 1 meg pots if you try passive pups with it in the future.

[les_paul]

I still prefer passives because I feel like actives remove the character from the guitar. The thing about actives, though, is that you know what you're going to get no matter what they go in. They're like the "safe bet" of pickups.

[nakedzen]

 

Can you mix EMGs and passives in the same guitar? Like.. put an EMG in the bridge and a P90 in the neck?

 

 

Afaik it's not possible since EMGs use 25k pots and passives use 250k to 1M pots.

[mamberg]

back to the pots thing - could the difference between the 2 guitars be the pots and caps?

[madryan]

I think BKP are more sensitive than any other pickup I've ever used to guitar/pickup pairing. If you get the wrong pair it's mediocre at best but most likely bad. If you get the pairing right holy crap it's good.

 

My LP didn't jive all that well with the mules but the Holy Diver is amazing. The Holy Diver in my strat was too much but the Rebel Yell works perfectly.

[guitarcapo]

back to the pots thing - could the difference between the 2 guitars be the pots and caps?

 

 

That's what I'm thinking. The other day I was playing a guitar I built out of a cigar box with Johnson neck on it. (seriously) My wife was listening to me play it through a nice Magnatone amp clean. She knows nothing about guitars but she said this: "This whole business about wood and how the guitar is built must be bull{censored}." I basically told her yea it's all in the electronics.

[madryan]

 

back to the pots thing - could the difference between the 2 guitars be the pots and caps?

 

 

EMG's have a buffer built in to each pickup. It converts the high impedance signal from the relatively weak magnetic pickup coils into a low impedance signal and boosts it a bit. That's why you use the lower value pots. If their buffer is transparent you won't get any coloration from the pots or electronic circuitry. A high impedance signal running through a 25k pot would sound really different.

[jlb32]

I still prefer passives because I feel like actives remove the character from the guitar. The thing about actives, though, is that you know what you're going to get no matter what they go in. They're like the "safe bet" of pickups.

 

 

I've heard alot of people say that about actives but personally I have never experienced it. I've had actives in alot of guitars and all of them have sounded different. Some sounded great and others sounded like ass. Same with passives. I personally like both actives and passives.

[tech21man]

So I recently ordered up a set of bare knuckle war pigs for my Gibson v. Rushed to the door to meet the nice ups man with my new toys and ripped into my v to give its new lessee of life. Well after two days of working with it, was sorely disappointed. Mud city, population me. Couldn't get anything nice out of it, either in concert pitch or in b tuning that wasn't just desperately bad, despite checking measurements of pickup heights, action and everything several times. So I set about beating a hasty retreat and fitting back up the emg pickups that came out of it - only really changed them out to try a new flavour. So, the guitar I had the emg pickups destined for, the ltd michael amott v, was pickup-less. So I though, what the hey, I'll try the war pigs in that, seeing as I didn't like the Duncan jb/59 set that it came with. Holy he'll it sings. The war pigs just work in that guitar. It's awesome. Meanwhile the Gibson has the emgs back in and is back to being my brutal workhorse and singing like a champ. Cool story bro, but thinking about it. Both are 24 3/4 scale, both are tune-o-matic bridges, both are mahogany set neck guitars, both have ebony fretboards. Two different pickup sets, two very different results. I was set to send the war pigs back but nope, definitely found a good home in the ltd. And the Gibson can stay with what works best, a pair of 18v emg pickups. I also bought a new bass... Just in case you were wondering what the other toys were. It's a 70s Japanese p bass and it's the best neck I ever felt on a bass. Tasty.

 

 

Silly question: did you change the pots from 25 K (EMGs) to 500K when you put the bks in?

[kmanick]

I agree with the BKs being picky.
I have Holydivers in my BRJ 7 string now and absoluely love them.
I went thru a Painkiller, an Aftermath, and a JB.
All sounded completely different. I know peole who have Aftermaths in guitars with the exact same woods as my BRJ and they sound thick and mean.
In My BRJ it was treble city and "clacky" sounding.
You would think a Holy Diver in an all mahogany neck thru (neck is Mahogany too) with a maple cap would be dark or muddy.
Not so. It sounds great:thu:
I have a Rebel Yell in my RG7CT, it sounded great ,but I recently swapeed the neck to a maple one (from ET guitars) and now the Rebel Yell is really bright? I didn't think changing the neck would make such a bid difference in the tone of a bolt on? Wrong.
CT in it's Original state

in it's new state


BTW Ernie makes a killer 7 string neck, I love the feel of this neck.

[satannica]

I would say in my experience of doing guitar repair that the tone is very dependant on the tone wood used. Pickups matter, as does bridge, build quality, scale length... To me all make significant differences.

 

As far as I can make out, the maple on the amott v is incredibly thin. And yes, crucial point there, the Gibson v is front routed with a pick guard as opposed to rear routed... Never thought of that. And yes to whoever asked, I most certain,y switched out the pots when changing around emgs.

 

One of my first warmoth builds had a mahogany body and maple neck and no matter what pickup I had it just didn't sound great, just overly bassy and no mids. Eventually I bought an alder body and mahogany/ebony neck and made two by breaking these apart and had far far better results. I still have one of those and it's great.

 

Mahogany guitars, to me, consistently have much more low end presence than alder and ash which are a lot more mid to high end intensive, and usually with sharper attack.