tele wiring - humbucker(split) in neck, standard bridge, standard 5 wy switch

[motele]

Can anyone point me to a good wiring diagram for the above setup. I have a splittable GFS Retrotron pickup in the neck and a standard bridge pup. I'd like to use a standard 5 way switch (that I already have on a complete control plate). I went to the Seymour Duncan site and wasn't able to find one there(which surprised me) Their diagrams are so clear, even I can understand them. Any help is appreciated.

[SomeoneYouKnew]

It's not common to use a standard Fender style 5-way in a two pickup configuration. Unlike a 5-way superswitch, the standard 5-way bridges contacts in the #2 and #4 positions. This limits the possibilities and forces you to make some choices that don't always allow the selections to occur in switch positions that you might prefer.

 

For the pickups you have, one possibility would be to have a sequence that looks like this:

 

Neck (split)

Neck (split) // Bridge

Bridge

Bridge // Neck (full)

Neck (full)

 

If that suits you, I can draw something up for you.

[WRGKMC]

I would test the split coil before even bothering with it. Humbuckers need to be very high impediance of 10K+ to sound any good split. If the HB is say 8K, a split coil would be 4K with a weak magnet which will likely sound pathetically weak.

 

You also have to decide on which strat type 5 way switch you're going to use. Imports are different from Standard strat and super strat wiring configurations. You need a diagram that matches the switch.

 

Next you have the physical size of the strat switch which is larger than a tele. It may be nessasary to route the cavity out for it to physically fit in the guitar.

 

So step one is to split the coil and see if it sounds OK with the other single coil. Only one coild will sound right. The other may hum or be out of phase with the other single coil pickup.

 

Next you can use a standard strat wiring diagram with some variations. Strats run the pickups in parallel. In your case the two coils of the HP would need to be in series with themselves, then in parallel with the other single coil.

 

You could definately just wire it like the strat though and see how it sounds with them all in Parallel. Having a parallel series option for the HB could be done with a push pull pot as well.

 

I'm not an expert on rotary switches. I always have to sketch out my diagrams depending on the switch type. For your mod you likely need a start super switch. I couldnt find an exact diagram on the net for you, but heres something close that can be adapted. Instead of having an Single Single Double, You can wire it for Single Single Single, the HB being two singles. I believe it will work. The coils would need to be reversed in the diagram though. The coil on the left and center would be the HB and the coil on the right the single coil. Then just flip the switch 180 degrees. http://www.guitartechcraig.com/techwire/tech18.jpg

 

You can also check here

http://www.fender.com/support/wiring_diagrams_parts_lists.php

 

I think the absolute simplest solution is to Just leave the 3 way and use the tone knob to short the one coil on the HB to get split tone. Its a very nice way of doing it because you can blend "How Much" coil split you want. If you still need a tone control then using a dual concentric would be needed.

[Belva]

The split vs. parallel concern is very real as described by WRG. I have GFS lil killers that sound great series and very weak split. Running parallel with both coils gives much more output and a similar sound as the split configuration.

[SomeoneYouKnew]

Next you have the physical size of the strat switch which is larger than a tele. It may be nessasary to route the cavity out for it to physically fit in the guitar.

A standard strat switch is exactly the same size as a standard tele switch.

 

While there might be a slight difference between manufacturers, there is no difference between a 3-way and a 5-way made by the same manufacturer.

 

The only difference between a CRL 3-way or a CRL 5-way is the commutator. It has a wider tab on the 5-way.

 

3-way

 

5-way

[motele]

thanks one and all for taking the time to address my questions. I am new to messing around with perfectly good instruments to "improve" their availabler choices. my electronics knowledge is miniscule, so I must go by rote from diagrams.

 

all in all, I think staying with the three way switch and using the tone control as a variable splitter sounds like a good choice for someone at my level. I also have a four way switch that I had considered using in this pickup arrangement. is that a workable approach or am I just gilding the lilly being that I have a humbucker in the mix. again thanks for your effort and input.

[motele]

dang. another issue I forgot to ask about. in the diagrams for teles with a four way switch there is mention of ungrounding the neck pup and running a seperate ground for the cover. is this something I have to contend with on a humbucker and/or with a 3 way switching approach?

[SomeoneYouKnew]

I also have a four way switch that I had considered using in this pickup arrangement. is that a workable approach or am I just gilding the lilly being that I have a humbucker in the mix. again thanks for your effort and input.

This will give you more tonal choices. Worth doing, imho.

[WRGKMC]

4 and 5 way switches made by the manufacturer may be the same physical size but that doesnt mean they will fit a tele cavity. Teles like the one I have has practically no clearence. Its mainly the terminals for most of them that make them a tight fit. Wiring a strat type config often requires wiring terminals from both sides of the disk. You need to be sure the terminals are gently bent to a right angle to the disk so they dont bottom out in the cavity, especially if you have shielding added. Some of these switches definately will not fit like the contained switched. The contacts are on the bottom and the switches are just too deep. Some others like the mega switch, though I havent used one in a Tele, is pretty wide, and the tele cavity is very narrow. You may not be able to bend the connectors to a right angle and easily get the switch to fit. The contacts are also easily damaged. They are just rivited in and bending them can loosen their connection and make for intermittant connections.

 

[motele]

 

having a separate wire to the coil(s) from the baseplate/cover wire is not necessary for 3-way switching, but it is for 4-way to enable putting the two pickups in series with each other. The Retrotron is 4 wire plus ground. It can do whatever you need it to. This will give you more tonal choices. Worth doing, imho.

 

 

I used a 4 way tele diagram that I got off the SD site just a little while ago to try and just substitute the retrotron for the tele neck pup; used the black lead from the retroton in the location shown as black in the diagram; the green wire for the white; left the red and white together hanging in the air; and put the bare to the back of the vol pot. I made all the little loop de doos shown in black and the lugs on all the pots matched the ones on my setup. screwed up somewhere even though I checked and rechecked to the point where I was verging on launching of tools airborne etc. I used their 3 way telecaster 1 single coil, 1 humbucker diagram and its working just fine. I hate settling for the plain vanilla, but I can't get the 4 way to work and not able to see where I went wrong. Any suggestions on likely newbie screwups will be welcome.

[SomeoneYouKnew]

 

I used a 4 way tele diagram that I got off the SD site just a little while ago to try and just substitute the retrotron for the tele neck pup; used the black lead from the retroton in the location shown as black in the diagram; the green wire for the white; left the red and white together hanging in the air; and put the bare to the back of the vol pot. I made all the little loop de doos shown in black and the lugs on all the pots matched the ones on my setup. screwed up somewhere even though I checked and rechecked to the point where I was verging on launching of tools airborne etc. I used their 3 way telecaster 1 single coil, 1 humbucker diagram and its working just fine. I hate settling for the plain vanilla, but I can't get the 4 way to work and not able to see where I went wrong. Any suggestions on likely newbie screwups will be welcome.

The 4way wiring allows for both pickups in series. Because of this, you can't have the "bottom end" of the pickup that ends up on the top of the series stack connected directly to the cover/baseplate of the pickup, the string ground/bridge, etc.

 

Can you link to both the 3-way and (unsuccessful) 4-way wiring diagrams?

[SomeoneYouKnew]

4 and 5 way switches made by the manufacturer may be the same physical size but that doesnt mean they will fit a tele cavity. Teles like the one I have has practically no clearence. Its mainly the terminals for most of them that make them a tight fit. Wiring a strat type config often requires wiring terminals from both sides of the disk.

Standard Telecaster wiring using a 3-way requires using terminals on both sides of the wafer.

 

[motele]

I'll go to the SD site later today and try to post a copy to this thread for the 4 wy diagram(which was intended for standard tele pickup configuration and I tried to adapt it to the GFS retrotron that I have in the neck of this guitar). I ended up using what I think is an identical depiction as the one you show for the standard 3 wy and it is working fine; would be great to figure out how to use a 4 wy switch with the hum pup and standard bridge that I have in the guitar. Thanks for the help.

[WRGKMC]

Keep in mind he's got a Humbucker in the bridge position. Using a 4 way would put all three coils in series if its done right. He does need to have 4~5 conductor wire to to this and not have hum.

[motele]

http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=tele_4ws

 

Here's where I got the diagram I was attempting to use. The Retrotron GFS pup that I have in the neck has four wires (red, white, black, and green) and a bare shielded wire. Hope this is enough info to be useful.

[WRGKMC]

You need the wiring diagram for the pickup itself. Different manufacturers use different color codes. I can draw you up a diagram in 5 seconds But I'd only be guessing at which wires connect to which of the two coils. Theres a minimum if like 16 different combinations of those wires and 15 of them would be wrong. Contact GFS and see if they have a color code diagram of the pickup you're using and post it. From there your other diagram should be a snap.

 

The way it will be wired will be with the two coils in series. The braded shield wire will be independant from the others and provide shielding.

[SomeoneYouKnew]

 

I used a 4 way tele diagram that I got off the SD site just a little while ago to try and just substitute the retrotron for the tele neck pup; used the black lead from the retroton in the location shown as black in the diagram; the green wire for the white; left the red and white together hanging in the air; and put the bare to the back of the vol pot. I made all the little loop de doos shown in black and the lugs on all the pots matched the ones on my setup. screwed up somewhere even though I checked and rechecked to the point where I was verging on launching of tools airborne etc.

 

 

This looks correct. From the information I have, GFS pickups were intended to have the same wiring as Seymour Duncan, but the magnets are flipped. So the wiring you described should put the Retrotron correctly in-phase with the bridge pickup.

 

Where did you get your 4-way switch?

 

It's worth taking a look at the lugs on your switch to insure the pattern matches the lugs in the diagram. The top right lug is one of the poles. As you move through the 4 positions of the switch, it connects to the each of the throws (the 4 remaining lugs) on that side of the switch. The lower left lug is the other pole.

 

You can verify this by looking at how the lugs connect to the wafer. The tab for a pole will be longer and stay in contact with the commutator in all positions of the switch.

 

Other than a problem with the lugs not being in the same pattern, I can't see why this wouldn't work. It looks good on paper.

[Belva]

GFS, black is north in. Red & white are north out, south in. Green is south out and bare, if equipped and I think all GFS pups are, is ground. Their diagram says you can use SD color codes. But that's only if you're using all GFS pups. It sounds like you may have used the SD colors and you'd be out of phase.

[SomeoneYouKnew]

GFS, black is north in. Red & white are north out, south in. Green is south out and bare, if equipped and I think all GFS pups are, is ground. Their diagram says you can use SD color codes. But that's only if you're using all GFS pups. It sounds like you may have used the SD colors and you'd be out of phase .

Read his description. He already compensated for the phase issue.

[motele]

My 4 way switch is an Oaks Grigsby (sp?) if that's of any help. I bought it from Mojotone, if I remember correctly.

[SomeoneYouKnew]

 

My 4 way switch is an Oaks Grigsby (sp?) if that's of any help. I bought it from Mojotone, if I remember correctly.

Oak Grigsby uses almost the same layout as CRL. But the pattern is slightly offset. The pole in the upper right will be farther up than the lugs on the left side.

 

Maybe check your switch with an ohmmeter to make sure it works.

[motele]

Good idea. I rarely think of parts being defective right off the bat, but it's certainly a possibility.

[motele]

Okay -- believe it or not someone with as meager a grasp of electronics as I have, owns a pretty good Fluke meter which I picked up at a guitar show years ago; doesn't mean I've ever had any need for it until now -- as I may have stated, just getting started here. Anyway, tried to intuit the checking of the 4 way switch; comical to watch, I'm sure. Set in on the ohm (inverted horseshoe thing) and used the probes to span between pairs of lugs on both sides of the switch as well as on one side at a time. Uneventful -- readings were zero, except that some combinations caused the display to strobe and disappear. A bit of guidance would no doubt be helpful here. Not sure what I should expect. Thanks for the patience and info