Members Eye_Of_The_Liger Posted January 3, 2006 Members Share Posted January 3, 2006 just got an acoustic, and I'm loving it, but I'm trying to figure out how to fix a problem myself before finally breaking down and taking it to ye ole guitar shoppe. Every time I play notes on the 7th fret, I get some pretty bad buzzing. I took a close look and noticed that the string is nearly touching the 9th fret when I press down on the 7th fret. When I eye-ball the neck I notice that there's also a slight bowing that seems to start at the neck joint. Is there any way I can just adjust the truss rod to fix the problem? If so, how? If not, would it be fixable by a guitar tech? I sure as hell hope so, it was a Christmas gift from my g/f and it's a really great looking/sounding guitar. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cldplytkmn Posted January 3, 2006 Members Share Posted January 3, 2006 the slight bow, assuming its a forward bow, is a good thing... there's a chance your 9th fret is a bit high and could need a smidge of filing... you could increase the bow in the neck a quarter turn or less as well i suppose, but you probably wanna just leave the truss alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eye_Of_The_Liger Posted January 3, 2006 Author Members Share Posted January 3, 2006 Originally posted by Cldplytkmn ... you could increase the bow in the neck a quarter turn or less as well i suppose, but you probably wanna just leave the truss alone. Would it {censored} up my intonation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cldplytkmn Posted January 3, 2006 Members Share Posted January 3, 2006 it'll change it slightly... could make it better, could make it worse. truss rods are not in the guitar for action adjustments... you generally wanna get a gentle curve in it and leave it like that... adjust intonation and action height at the nut and saddle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JasmineTea Posted January 3, 2006 Members Share Posted January 3, 2006 Originally posted by Eye_Of_The_Liger Would it {censored} up my intonation? If it's buzzing at the 7th fret there's a good chance you can fix it by loosening the truss. Just loosen it 1/4 turn or less a day. 1/4 might be all it needs, if that. If it does'nt get any better, take it to the shop, or exchange it. No, it won't {censored} up the intonation, but it will change the way it plays a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eye_Of_The_Liger Posted January 3, 2006 Author Members Share Posted January 3, 2006 Which way do I turn the truss to loosen or tighten? Thanks for the help btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JasmineTea Posted January 3, 2006 Members Share Posted January 3, 2006 Originally posted by Eye_Of_The_Liger Which way do I turn the truss to loosen or tighten? Thanks for the help btw. Loosen. righty-tighty, lefty-loosey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JasmineTea Posted January 3, 2006 Members Share Posted January 3, 2006 Originally posted by Eye_Of_The_Liger Which way do I turn the truss to loosen or tighten? Thanks for the help btw. Loosen. righty-tighty, lefty-loosey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted January 4, 2006 Members Share Posted January 4, 2006 Frets.com - Chasing the mystery buzz Frets.com - adjusting the truss rod Taylor guitars - string breakage and buzz If the guitar is new I would take it to the shop and ask them to set it up the way YOU want it. If the guitar is not new or you are committed to "fixing" it yourself read every one of the frets articles, get a good straight edge (or use the strings) and go slowly. The "slight bowing" at the neck joint (14th fret) could be a more serious problem - particularly if the guitar is some years old. If it is new I would have a tech look at that before you do anything. The truss rod will not fix it. Again, read the frets articles. Tell your GF how wonderful she is and that you are just getting it perfect so you can play beautifully for her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eye_Of_The_Liger Posted January 4, 2006 Author Members Share Posted January 4, 2006 Originally posted by Freeman Keller The "slight bowing" at the neck joint (14th fret) could be a more serious problem... I asked about that when I went to a local guitar shop (not where I got the guitar) today and the guy I talked to said that it's normal for acoustics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted January 4, 2006 Members Share Posted January 4, 2006 Originally posted by Eye_Of_The_Liger I asked about that when I went to a local guitar shop (not where I got the guitar) today and the guy I talked to said that it's normal for acoustics. This is a direct quote from Frank Ford's page - the article about neck angle"Often, guitars with neck angle problems may show no such bend, because the end of the fingerboard may dip downward at the soundhole, either as part of the original construction or as a result of the neck pulling forward and taking the fingerboard and top along with it. But the appearance of a bend right at the body is frequently a sign of neck angle trouble." Ford goes on to say "I can't use the straightedge if the fingerboard bends because it won't "read" the tops of the frets accurately to give me a sense of the neck angle." Both my old Martins had developed slight humps at the neck joint (14th fret) and I paid a bunch of money to have it corrected. Get some feeler guages and a 24 inch straight edge and check yours before you do anything else. Maybe consider a different guitar tech. I also think it is interesting that you only have a buzz at the 7th fret - if it is neck relief I would expect other frets to buzz too. It is possible that the 7th is low, 9th high or some other problem with the frets and not the neck relief. I know that others screw with their truss rods all the time but in 30 years of playing I've never adjusted one. One more thing that really affects playability is humidity (or lack of it). Is your new guitar and it's environment sufficiently humid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eye_Of_The_Liger Posted January 4, 2006 Author Members Share Posted January 4, 2006 Well, I got it as a gift in Houston, but then I flew up to VA (winter time, much colder, not as humid). That's when I noticed the buzzing. I'm back in Houston now, so now I'm thinking it's possible that the problem may fix itself...? I was able to get rid of most of the buzzing by fiddling with the truss rod. I'm also wondering if I'm not just strumming chords too hard anyway, since it's been years since I've played acoustic (sure I've picked one up and noodled around once in a blue moon but I'm mainly an electric guy). I find that there's not buzzing if I strum hard enough for it to be loud without really digging into the strings. Another thing to consider is that it's an Art & Lutherie guitar, so while it's a great guitar, it didn't cost me all that much, so I'm wondering if it would even be worth dumping a whole bunch of money into having set up when it already sounds good anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nylon rock Posted January 4, 2006 Members Share Posted January 4, 2006 I had my New OM-21 set up by a Martin Authorized Repairman at the end of the summer. He found a couple of high frets which he hammered down (I thought at the time, "Hey, easy on my guitar, there!") then he did the set up after watching me play. Everything took about an hour and cost me $35. Funny thing is, he lowered the action so low that I then raised it back up with another bone saddle. I've found I like the action a little higher; my finger kept slipping over the strings when I'd go for a note bend when the action was lower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted January 4, 2006 Members Share Posted January 4, 2006 Some interesting points here and this is my take on it. First, if I am buying a new guitar I would not expect either loose frets or a "slightly bowed" neck. I would consider those defects to be fixed under warranty. To me this would be like buying a new car with a rattle in the motor or a dent in the side. I would expect the truss rod to be correctly adjusted in the store for the guage strings and conditions in the store (I would assume that it is stored with good humidity and would have fairly fresh strings - but I know this is a big assumption). I would expect playable action, but maybe a little on the high side. Strings are cheap - a good shop should throw in a new set of the guage and brand I like. To continue the car analogy it aught to be tuned to specifications, with a full tank, and washed. Now, if I had taken that new guitar half way across the country and hadn't paid attention to the dry air, and had taken a turn to the truss rod because someone on an internet forum said to - I would think that is like taking a screw driver to the fuel injection on that new car and running a different grade of fuel - I would say it is out of warrenty now and the owner is responsible. To me a professional setup is one of the best things you can do - particularly if he watches you play and sets it for your strings. A setup should include the saddle height and neck relief, and I would expect to pay for that ($35 is very reasonable) plus materials like strings, saddle, nut, pins, etc. The luthier that set up my 12 string cut each nut slot to fit the strings I use ($60 for the nut and work) and intonated each string individually (included in the $300 neck reset). A setup would be like changing the tires and wheels on that new car for the kind of perfomance you want - you should pay for it but it shouldn't affect the warranty. Last, and far from least, I've had some modifications made to a couple of my guitars - bridge plates and brace work - which totally voids any warranty (they weren't anyway) - and are considered "hot rod" modifications. A bit like dropping a supercharger on that new car. Used guitars are like used cars - you get what you get, but I think you can and should buy wisely. Most of my cars and guitars have been purchased used. Sorry about the thread drift.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cldplytkmn Posted January 4, 2006 Members Share Posted January 4, 2006 a slight forward bow in the neck is normal and desireable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JasmineTea Posted January 4, 2006 Members Share Posted January 4, 2006 I like it when they forward bow a little more on the bass side than on the treble. It gives the bass strings more room to vibe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cldplytkmn Posted January 4, 2006 Members Share Posted January 4, 2006 i especially like when the A or low E string is kinda... its hard to explain... like on the back of the neck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted January 4, 2006 Members Share Posted January 4, 2006 Originally posted by JasmineTea I like it when they forward bow a little more on the bass side than on the treble. It gives the bass strings more room to vibe. so how do you do that without a dual adjustable truss rod, planing the neck or serious fret dressing? The original poster said "When I eye-ball the neck I notice that there's also a slight bowing that seems to start at the neck joint. " That implied to me a kink at the joint which I had on guitars needing neck resets and is gone now. That is why I referenced the Ford article - it not only shows a picture but says it is not "normal". The truss rod, of course, only changes from the neck block to the nut - from the neck block to the end of the fret board it is supported by the top and any bracing under the upper bout. I suggested he take some actual measurements before changing anything - if for no other reason to know if he is making it better or worse. If I missunderstood his intent I'm sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JasmineTea Posted January 4, 2006 Members Share Posted January 4, 2006 Originally posted by Freeman Keller so how do you do that without a dual adjustable truss rod, planing the neck or serious fret dressing? You can find them new at the shop. I specificaly look for guitars that bow a little more on the bass side. All three of my flattops are that way, some of my electrics too. I'm thinking about buying a D-35 I saw the other day that sounded great and had a nicely "twisted" neck. Originally posted by Freeman Keller The original poster said"When I eye-ball the neck I notice that there's also a slight bowing that seems to start at the neck joint. "That implied to me a kink at the joint which I had on guitars needing neck resets and is gone now. That is why I referenced the Ford article - it not only shows a picture but says it is not "normal". The truss rod, of course, only changes from the neck block to the nut - from the neck block to the end of the fret board it is supported by the top and any bracing under the upper bout. I suggested he take some actual measurements before changing anything - if for no other reason to know if he is making it better or worse.If I missunderstood his intent I'm sorry. I'm not exactly clear as to what he was saying either. I thought the problem was in the middle of the neck, 7th fret, and therefore could be easy to fix. But I still think he should bring it back to the shop for an exchange, or see if they can fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eye_Of_The_Liger Posted January 5, 2006 Author Members Share Posted January 5, 2006 Thanks for all your help. Just found out that I get a free set-up with a guitar purchase at the guitar shop anyway, so I'm pretty sure I'll get this fixed once and for all. Don't know why I didn't think of that to begin with, but all this info is good to know anyway so thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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