Brands: What do they matter anyway???

[bjorn-fjord]

 

Originally posted by Cldplytkmn not refuting your entire post, but it should be pointed out that almost any guitar can be set up to meet your needs... before or after the sale... (not directed at you)- i really like reading threads where people dismiss martin as having 'bad action's... couple truss turns, some sanding on the saddle, and you can fix i'd say 90% of the action 'problems' with guitars on a showroom floor... to the original poster- if you find a guitar that sounds good, and has no structural issues, it can almost be guaranteed that you can make it play the way you want it to... aside from something like the neck profile just not suiting your hand...

 

 

Yup. As long as the neck has sufficient relief and the neck angle is correct (this corresponds to saddle height) any guitar can be made to play like butter.

 

BTW, I love the song, "{censored}bird". Lynyrd {censored}yrd is the best.

[markmann]

Question:

 

I hope I'm not stepping on this thread but I'm also in the market for a new acoustic. My old Yamaha FG300 (circa 1970) is getting a bit war torn so I'm thinking about retiring the old girl. I really do like the Yammi for it's chimey and lively sound, and it plays like a dream but it's time for a new one. My Yammi has a K&K Pure Western pup so it also has a great electrfied tone.

 

Can you guys give some recommendations in the 1k range give or take a couple hundie?

 

What I'm after is a great player with a full but somewhat brite tone. I like an acoustic that responds well to light strumming but doesn't get too flabby when dug into a bit. I'm generally not a hard strummer but I do need to dig in occasionally.

 

If possible I would prefer a comfortable body style (not real big unless the payoff is great) with a cutaway and good electronics. The natural tone should be excellent as well as the electrified tone. I'm not fussy about neck profile but the neck must have easy action and a nice feel.

 

Is it possible to get what I'm after in my price range? If not how high will I ned to go?

 

Thanks.

[bwalker]

Originally posted by markmann Question: I hope I'm not stepping on this thread but I'm also in the market for a new acoustic. My old Yamaha FG300 (circa 1970) is getting a bit war torn so I'm thinking about retiring the old girl. I really do like the Yammi for it's chimey and lively sound, and it plays like a dream but it's time for a new one. My Yammi has a K&K Pure Western pup so it also has a great electrfied tone. Can you guys give some recommendations in the 1k range give or take a couple hundie? What I'm after is a great player with a full but somewhat brite tone. I like an acoustic that responds well to light strumming but doesn't get too flabby when dug into a bit. I'm generally not a hard strummer but I do need to dig in occasionally. If possible I would prefer a comfortable body style (not real big unless the payoff is great) with a cutaway and good electronics. The natural tone should be excellent as well as the electrified tone. I'm not fussy about neck profile but the neck must have easy action and a nice feel. Is it possible to get what I'm after in my price range? If not how high will I ned to go? Thanks.

 

I'm not sure what specific tone you're looking for, but I would definitely check out the Larrivee guitar that I've been eyeing (LV-03E; L=body style, V=cutaway, 03=line, E=B-Band Electronics). Or the LV-03RE (R=rosewood). From the comments that I've heard and the limited testing that I've done, Larrivee is equal or better to the highend guitars out there for significantly less $$$. Check out their website for sure (www.larrivee.com).

 

At notableguitars.com, you can get the 03 series guitars for about $1000, more or less.

[t60 fan]

I agree with bwalker's assessment: the L-series Larrivee is both versatile enough to do what you've asked and comfortable enough (for me at least) to want to do it. They have awesome build quality and materials - and are priced very competitively for what they offer.

[markmann]

Thanks guys, much appreciated.

 

I've had the idea of getting a new acoustic in the back of mind for a while but I'm starting to get more serious. This past weekend I got a chance to play a fancy Taylor that an acuaintance of mine bought recently. I don't recall the model but he said it cost $4k. It was a nice guitar but for that price I was definitely not impressed.

 

I guess I need to get out and test drive some guitars, I just need a starting point. Maybe it would be better to ask for recommendations of what NOT to buy because I don't know which guitar makers have good or bad reputation for quality and service.

[Cldplytkmn]

hey bwalker... before you order one online, go back to the local place and make sure you're asking them if the price you're looking at is the best they can do... i doubt that it is... normally they've got some wiggle room under the display price...

 

another thing to ask is if they set up the guitar for you and all that jazz... if the price gets down close, and they will take real good care of you there local, it wouldn't hurt to buy it local.

[bwalker]

 

Originally posted by markmann Thanks guys, much appreciated. I've had the idea of getting a new acoustic in the back of mind for a while but I'm starting to get more serious. This past weekend I got a chance to play a fancy Taylor that an acuaintance of mine bought recently. I don't recall the model but he said it cost $4k. It was a nice guitar but for that price I was definitely not impressed. I guess I need to get out and test drive some guitars, I just need a starting point. Maybe it would be better to ask for recommendations of what NOT to buy because I don't know which guitar makers have good or bad reputation for quality and service.

 

 

I don't have a recommendation of a starting point, but there was 2 things that I learned over the past 2-3 weeks.

 

1) Base model guitars (from reputable manuf.) USUALLY sound and are of of the same quality as higher end guitars. The only difference is the "decorations" (sometimes over $1000 additional). Wood is the same, quality is the same, etc. I'm sure this isn't the case with ALL guitars, but if you don't care about "pretty-ness", make sure you're not paying for it.

 

2) Maritn and Taylors are great guitars, but a portion of what you are paying for is the name. Even the guy at the guitar shop said that they are overpriced. If you want people to know that you own a Taylor/Martin, you're going to pay for it. However, I heard the Taylor electronics are un-rivaled (I haven't tested this myself though).

 

Cldplytkmn: I will, in fairness to the local shop, give them the opportunity to match or beat the price. I will need it adjusted for my style of play anyway. I was just making the point that it sucks for them (good for us) that the internet is so much easier and cheaper than visiting your local music store.

[Dave W.]

 

Originally posted by bwalker Cldplytkmn: I will, in fairness to the local shop, give them the opportunity to match or beat the price. I will need it adjusted for my style of play anyway. I was just making the point that it sucks for them (good for us) that the internet is so much easier and cheaper than visiting your local music store.

 

 

Yes, it sucks for them, but I think most are prepared to deal with it as much as they can, but you need to talk with them about it. Just be honest, try to let them make a few bucks, if they get arrogant, what can you do, you didn't invent the internet...Al Gore did:)

 

Another thing, if tone between guitars is a tough decision, grab that teacher or bring a friend, so you can sit in front and just listen with your eyes closed. It's a much better perspective for comparing tone.

[Cldplytkmn]

here's the thing... if they sell at what the online guys sell at, they'd still make money... they can probably have the same model guitar back in stock within 4-5 days anyway, especially the larrivee's and martins and taylors... so yeah, give them a chance to make a few bucks, but i don't like when they tell me some sob story about how they 'just can't' discount like the online guys do... we all know they get away with charging more for accessories simply because of the impulse buy and convenience factors...

 

if i'm in guitar sales and my normal price discount is 35% off list, and the max discount anybody is doing is 40%... and somebody walks in and wants to buy a guitar THAT I CAN REORDER THE SAME DAY (thats the key here), and i lose that sale cause i won't eat another 5%... then i'm an idiot and i don't deserve to be in business.

[Dave W.]

 

Originally posted by Cldplytkmn here's the thing... if they sell at what the online guys sell at, they'd still make money... they can probably have the same model guitar back in stock within 4-5 days anyway, especially the larrivee's and martins and taylors... so yeah, give them a chance to make a few bucks, but i don't like when they tell me some sob story about how they 'just can't' discount like the online guys do... we all know they get away with charging more for accessories simply because of the impulse buy and convenience factors... if i'm in guitar sales and my normal price discount is 35% off list, and the max discount anybody is doing is 40%... and somebody walks in and wants to buy a guitar THAT I CAN REORDER THE SAME DAY (thats the key here), and i lose that sale cause i won't eat another 5%... then i'm an idiot and i don't deserve to be in business.

 

 

 

agreed, one thing I don't think is fair is that the store front guys have to collect sales tax while the online guys get to skate it for the most part. Since most online sources ship free, that puts the locals at a disadvantage.

[fingerstyleman]

I don't see any votes here for Tacoma.

 

Here in the Uk most 'stores' stock a wide range of Asian made product alongside North American output.

 

I've never been a fan of Martin or Taylor, they sound and play like low end Hohner Laminate guitars when new, and though most guitarists who started out on a cheap beater have fond memories of that bright jangly sound, it can grate after a while.

 

I love the Seagull/Norman/Art&Lutherie branded guitars from La Patrie in Quebec, project really well, respond well to a 'light' touch, but I find the neck profiles a little on the thin side.

 

But really do love Tacoma's, very 'earthy' tone, bass responds beatifully played from the flesh of the thumb, great guitar for fingerstyle. We pat through the nose in taxes over here aswell, I'd wager the

[Cldplytkmn]

the last thing i would call a D28 is bright and jangly... but ok, opinions are opinions.

[Freeman Keller]

 

Originally posted by Cldplytkmn here's the thing... if they sell at what the online guys sell at, they'd still make money... if i'm in guitar sales and my normal price discount is 35% off list, and the max discount anybody is doing is 40%... and somebody walks in and wants to buy a guitar THAT I CAN REORDER THE SAME DAY (thats the key here), and i lose that sale cause i won't eat another 5%... then i'm an idiot and i don't deserve to be in business.

 

 

My little mom and pop music store has an HD-28, a D-28 and a bunch of other money tied up in inventory - I can walk in and try each. Sure, I can walk out and say "I'm going to think about it" and order it form MF or one of the other internet stores - and probably get a better discount. But there aren't too many internet stores (other than Maury's) that actually will let me hear the guitar I'm going to buy. That to me is worth some money.

 

In the last year they have brought Richard Starkey and Buster Jones and other seminars to this town of 50,000 - not only put on the program for free but gave out cool swag (including a guitar). Do I get that from MF or Elderly or ...? They told me that the night Starkey was here it cost them $120 to rent the hd tv to show the Martin movie, but they sold a total of $60 that night. And then they asked my about my projects. That is worth my little purchase of picks and strings and sheet music...

 

These wonderful people have earned my business and I vote with my check book. If I was to order a guitar that wasn't in stock I would ask them to try to match the mail order prices, all they have to do is move it thru their store - but if they have it in stock and I can A/B and they will set it up and put new strings on it and know me by name, well I don't mind paying the premium

 

My wife used to work in a outdoor store and she would spend hours fitting someone with boots, only to have them go shopping on the internet. Someday the little mom and pop stores will all be out of business and we will be buying everything on the web. What a sad day that will be...

[Freeman Keller]

 

Originally posted by markmann I guess I need to get out and test drive some guitars, I just need a starting point. Maybe it would be better to ask for recommendations of what NOT to buy because I don't know which guitar makers have good or bad reputation for quality and service.

 

 

You are going to get more opinions than you know what to do with on this forum - and every one is correct for the person posting it. My little advice, and people who have heard me rant know I say this a lot, is that while you are test driving take a little cheapie cassette recorder with you and set it down if front of the guitars as you play them. Dictate into it "this is an Acme Model BZ-69, price is way out of my range, blah blah blah, " then play it. Any comments, impressions etc go on the tape. Ideally you'll bring the same pick with you and in a real ideal world all the gits would be strung the same. You probably have some favorite songs play them. Retune if necessary - play that little DADGAD number or wail away with a slide. Ask people in the store to shut up or take it to a soundproof room.

 

Then as you narrow your choices down don't be afraid to ask forumites what their experience are - but filter what they say. The journey is almost as fun as the final purchase.

[JasmineTea]

 

Originally posted by bwalker about 30 mins. from me

That's not very far to travel to try some guitars.

Originally posted by bwalker 1) Are Larivee's really better (quality, value, etc.) then the more-mainstream Taylors or Martin's?

No.

 

 

Originally posted by bwalker 2) One thing that I'm REALLY looking for is play-ability. My current guitars beat the crap out of my fingers. They almost feel bruised. The Martin/Taylors felt like a Lay-Z-boy for my fingertips. Are there certain guitars that focus on that? ~Brian

Any guitar can play well if set up by a good luthier. Larrivees are fine guitars and come with a multi-radius fretboard, yes they play well. Mine plays exceptionaly well because of the multi radius AND I had it set up by the guy who invented the multi radius fretboard, Denny Rauen.

[Cldplytkmn]

 

Originally posted by Freeman Keller My little mom and pop music store has an HD-28, a D-28 and a bunch of other money tied up in inventory - I can walk in and try each. Sure, I can walk out and say "I'm going to think about it" and order it form MF or one of the other internet stores - and probably get a better discount. But there aren't too many internet stores (other than Maury's) that actually will let me hear the guitar I'm going to buy. That to me is worth some money. In the last year they have brought Richard Starkey and Buster Jones and other seminars to this town of 50,000 - not only put on the program for free but gave out cool swag (including a guitar). Do I get that from MF or Elderly or ...? They told me that the night Starkey was here it cost them $120 to rent the hd tv to show the Martin movie, but they sold a total of $60 that night. And then they asked my about my projects. That is worth my little purchase of picks and strings and sheet music... These wonderful people have earned my business and I vote with my check book. If I was to order a guitar that wasn't in stock I would ask them to try to match the mail order prices, all they have to do is move it thru their store - but if they have it in stock and I can A/B and they will set it up and put new strings on it and know me by name, well I don't mind paying the premium My wife used to work in a outdoor store and she would spend hours fitting someone with boots, only to have them go shopping on the internet. Someday the little mom and pop stores will all be out of business and we will be buying everything on the web. What a sad day that will be...

 

 

i understand your position, and i have no problem with it... we all have to shop in ways that we're comfortable with.

 

i understand that they have money tied up in inventory, but it would be more sympathetic to your viewpoint to mention that they have other costs, overhead, etc... i realize they have money tied up in inventory, but its LESS money than you'd be giving them yes? so the money tied up in inventory thing doesn't do it for me... i don't think they'd have a problem replacing the D28 thats hanging on the wall in short order...

 

i just have a hard time feeling sorry for shops that refuse to do what a hell of alot of other places are doing, and succeeding in doing so. I'm almost positive that Elderly will do 40 off, and i'm sure its the same if you walked into their store... and i'm sure their overhead is proportionally similar to many mom n pops... but they sell more guitars... hmm wonder why.

[Sweb]

What / how do you play? Big factor with setup. Martins come set high. Larrivees are low and quick right out of the box. But, if you are expecting to do some aggressive flatpicking there might be fret-out issues with the Larrivees. I find the Larrivee guitar great for fingerstyle. The Martin will give similar performance but not without some work. Last one I had the bridge needed shaving down to suit my needs. I find both makers produce great instruments.

 

Whatever you do, don't be spontaneously combustible about it. GAS does that sometimes.

[DenverDave]

Actually, most Christian artists that I know play either Taylors or McPhersons. I would favor the Larrivee over a Taylor sound wise (in the long run - Larrivees open up wonderfully), though a Taylor plays better. Martin - a good one - will sound better than a Taylor to, but playability wise wil not be as smooth.

 

Ranking wise..

 

Playability

1. Taylor

2. Larrivee

3. Martin

 

Sound

1. Martin

2. Larrivee

3. Taylor

 

All of those varibles will vary model to model.

[Andrewrg]

 

Originally posted by fingerstyleman I don't see any votes here for Tacoma.   Here in the Uk most 'stores' stock a wide range of Asian made product alongside North American output.   I've never been a fan of Martin or Taylor, they sound and play like low end Hohner Laminate guitars when new, and though most guitarists who started out on a cheap beater have fond memories of that bright jangly sound, it can grate after a while.   I love the Seagull/Norman/Art&Lutherie branded guitars from La Patrie in Quebec, project really well, respond well to a 'light' touch, but I find the neck profiles a little on the thin side.   But really do love Tacoma's, very 'earthy' tone, bass responds beatifully played from the flesh of the thumb, great guitar for fingerstyle. We pat through the nose in taxes over here aswell, I'd wager the

[markmann]

 

Originally posted by fingerstyleman I don't see any votes here for Tacoma.   Here in the Uk most 'stores' stock a wide range of Asian made product alongside North American output.   I love the Seagull/Norman/Art&Lutherie branded guitars from La Patrie in Quebec, project really well, respond well to a 'light' touch, but I find the neck profiles a little on the thin side.   But really do love Tacoma's, very 'earthy' tone, bass responds beatifully played from the flesh of the thumb, great guitar for fingerstyle. We pat through the nose in taxes over here aswell, I'd wager the

[markmann]

 

Originally posted by Freeman Keller You are going to get more opinions than you know what to do with on this forum - and every one is correct for the person posting it. My little advice, and people who have heard me rant know I say this a lot, is that while you are test driving take a little cheapie cassette recorder with you and set it down if front of the guitars as you play them. Dictate into it "this is an Acme Model BZ-69, price is way out of my range, blah blah blah, " then play it. Any comments, impressions etc go on the tape. Ideally you'll bring the same pick with you and in a real ideal world all the gits would be strung the same. You probably have some favorite songs play them. Retune if necessary - play that little DADGAD number or wail away with a slide. Ask people in the store to shut up or take it to a soundproof room. Then as you narrow your choices down don't be afraid to ask forumites what their experience are - but filter what they say. The journey is almost as fun as the final purchase.

Yes, I agree, searching and testing gear can be very fun. I'm primarily an electric guitarist and in the past I used to get frustrated with all the variety of guitars and effects and never knew what to buy to achieve particular results. I've leaned to just take my time and enjoy the experience.

 

I didn't think about taking a portable recorder with me while auditioning guitars but that's not a bad idea. My thought was to take my current guitar with me to use as a benchmark and take notes.

 

The thing that worries me is guitars not having the same strings, or more importantly, not having the correct strings for that particular model. The reason I say that is because different strings make a HUGE difference on my current guitar. Too light and the tone is thin and cheap sounding, too heavy and it's hard to play and boomy, and when I tried Elyxr's the tone was generally bad and string to string balance was uneven. I don't know how to compensate for the string factor.

 

Thanks.