New Jumbo Cutaway

[Etienne Rambert]

Yesterday, I picked up a new jumbo cutaway I ordered six weeks ago.

I used a different Saigon luthier than I normally buy from. They're

both on the same street though.

 

Here it is.

 

This luthier doesn't speak English. Nobody in his shop speaks English.

I thought I'd made clear what I wanted in Vietnamese.

I did make it clear, in fact. But it didn't matter.

 

What matters over here is the flow.

You go with the flow and you don't say "no".

 

Soooo....

 

I ordered sunburst. I got a big blonde.

I ordered this shop's trademark Ebony do-nut wood

thing around the soundhole. I got Abalone.

 

I think when I changed my order from Spruce top to

Cedar top - they felt free to change it from sunburst to

blonde. Why they dropped the Ebony wood do-nut thing

from my order though, I don't know. That's why I chose

this shop in the first place. They put these Ebony wood do-nut

things around the soundholes of their guitars.

 

I shouldn't complain though.

I like this guitar.

 

It weighs a ton. I was stunned at heavy this is.

If I perform with this, it'll throw my back out for sure.

Is it the bling weighing it down?

 

Dunno. I'm Year of the Dragon. So I'll always take

dragons on my guitars over here.

 

The jumbo has made me appreciate how special my

Maple Dragon dreadnought is. I bought it from

a different luthier. But it's the best-sounding guitar

overall I've ever owned.

 

Fingerpicking - the Maple/Spruce dread blows the IR/Cedar Jumbo away.

It blows my 35 year old Guild Mahogany away.

 

It is only in strumming & leads that the Jumbo betters the Maple.

The Maple sounds better strumming than the old Guild.

 

The old Guild sounds best of all 3 though, playing lead runs.

 

The IR/Cedar has a velvet strum sound. That's why I'm not so

disappointed. I always wanted a guitar that sounded like this

when I strummed it. Never owned one until now.

 

Tale of the Tape:

 

A. Fingerpicking -

 

1st - Maple

2nd - IR/Cedar

3rd - Mahogany

 

B. Strumming

 

1st IR/Cedar

2nd Maple

3rd Mahogany

 

C. Lead runs

 

1st Mahogany

2nd IR/Cedar

3rd Maple.

[Terry Allan Hall]

Very nice!

[Fred Fartboski]

Are the dragon inlays mother of pearl? All hand done?

 

I can't believe the prices!

[Sarms58]

 

Abalone & Ebony wood are used on the inlays. Real Abalone. Fretboard & bridge are Ebony wood, BTW. Labor is cheap here. They've been doing lacquer work for millenia over here. Western inlay art is amateurish compared to what they've been doing over here for centuries. Original price was $265. Then I added a Cedar top & a pickup. Maple neck looks really nice, I think. But the guitar weighs a ton. I don't know if all Jumbos are this heavy.

 

 

There's a guy who sells stuff on e-bay that looks similar...I'll see if I can find some of his stuff and compare...

[Sarms58]

Guy on e-bay is "Bruceweiart Musical Instrument Shop"

 

He's in Vietnam and has similar stuff. I've never bought anything but his stuff looks really cool...

[Etienne Rambert]

Congratulations on your 1977 D-25. Mine is a 1972. I had it restored over here in Vietnam. It's 35 years old this year. After the restoration, it will be good for another 35 years.

 

I'd heard Bruce Wei was in Taiwan. If he is in Vietnam, I don't know about him. "Wei" is not a Vietnamese name. It's Chinese.

 

He has no shop on luthier street (Nguyen Thien Thuat). He has no shop anywhere in Saigon that I know of.

 

I don't know of any shop in Saigon that exports to him. It's possible. But I know the owners of the two biggest shops in Saigon. One exports to France. The shop where I bought most of my guitars exports to California. Neither sell on EBay.

 

But the Saigon shops may be middlemen. I know that some of these guitars are built in Hue & Can Tho. My jumbo was built in Can Tho and finished in Saigon. But it was built by a junior luthier from the shop on Nguyen Thien Thuat. My Maple dread was built in Hue. It's possible Bruce Wei buys directly from builders outside Saigon.

 

He has no shop in Saigon though. And no shop on Nguyen Thien Thuat Street (Luthier Street) exports to him, to my knowledge. At least the best shops on the street don't. There are a lot of luthiers on Nguyen Thien Thuat Street.

[Sarms58]

 

Congratulations on your 1977 D-25. Mine is a 1972. I had it restored over here in Vietnam. It's 35 years old this year. After the restoration, it will be good for another 35 years.

 

 

I thought I would trade the Guild after I picked up the Taylor 710 but I'm just gonna have to keep 'em both...

 

It appears there are a number of sellers on e-bay that feature guitars (supposedly) from Vietnam but several of them have bad reviews on the user reviews here on harmony central. You in a good spot to actually lay hands on the guitars. I'm nervous about buying a guitar, especially an acoustic, sight unseen.

 

Steve

[Etienne Rambert]

He says his guitars are made at his shop in Kaosiung, Taiwan. They may be very nice guitars. The inlay is gorgeous.

 

Oops! I was wrong. Further on down the page, he says he has a shop in Vietnam also.

This is the first I'd heard of it though.

 

In my experience, the fundamental problem with buying these types of guitars is setup. The luthiers here build beautiful instruments. But they haven't a clue about setup. Also - the accessories like tuners, pickups, are extremely limited. Tuners are all Korean. When I go to the States, I stock up on tuners and strings. It's hard to buy decent strings in Saigon too. No Elixirs, or other brands of coated strings.

 

Finally - Saigon is 80% average annual relative humidity. The wood is kilned for 3 years at that humidity. Unless a buyer lives in a place like Houston, South Louisiana or Southern Florida, he or she should buy a humidifier to protect the wood. That goes for instruments made in Kaosiung Taiwan too.

 

Last but not least is shipping cost. It would cost me $300-400 to ship this guitar back 3 day UPS or DHL. Add that to the cost of the instrument, and they're not so cheap. Smart buyers come here on vacation, buy a guitar and fly back with it. That's the way to do it.

[Verne Andru]

 

Guy on e-bay is "Bruceweiart Musical Instrument Shop" He's in Vietnam and has similar stuff. I've never bought anything but his stuff looks really cool...

 

 

Edit: I checked my records and the guy I got ripped of from was Antonio Tsai, not Bruceweiart. The rest of this applies to him but I'd still suggest caution with these guys.

 

I got hosed on one of his 7-string inlaid necks. He claimed he was in Taiwan in the auction then changed it to Vietnam when it came time to send him the money. The neck arrived with the nut removed before shipping, the fret-ends are sharp enough to kill a horse and most of the frets are either in the wrong place or visibly crooked. After a month of haggling he finally agreed to take it back and give me a new one. It cost me $60 to ship it back [to the same address I sent the money] and he refused to claim it from the post office, so back it came. In the mean time he cashed the check and stopped returning emails.

 

Other people claim their guitars literally explode and/or fall apart after a while.

 

Buyer beware!

[Etienne Rambert]

I'm not selling anything.

 

I live in Saigon. I visit the shops. I know which shops put out good instruments and which ones don't. I refuse to sell guitars. I have a job that pays better and my personality is not suitable for retail sales to guitar players.

 

Sometimes people ask me to help them buy. My first advice for them is always, "Buy a plane ticket,". If he or she insists, I'll give out a few email addresses & phone numbers for various luthiers. It's a lose-lose proposition as far as I'm concerned.

 

I am happy to buy some of these instruments for myself, clients & family though.That's it. Anyone else can buy a plane ticket. And there are a lot of smart, satisfied Brit, French, Aussie and American guitarists who do that. They fly here on vacation. They fly home with a new guitar made of woods they couldn't afford back home.

 

But those buyers know the shops too, because they've all been here before & bought guitars. I know one guy from the Pacific Northwest who buys 6-7 every year from one shop. His profit pays for his vacation.

 

I looked at Weiart's EBay site. He sells a lot of inlay, purfling & Ebony wood parts separately. That's probably a real money-maker for him. Western inlay artists can't compete in quality or price with what these people are doing. That would seem more profitable than selling guitars.

 

East Asia is aglut with high-quality guitars. GAD's are made in China. Yamahas are made in Taiwan. Korea is the #1 producer of guitars in the world.

 

As cheap as these guitars are, they really don't reflect market realities. They should be cheaper. And that tells me that US & European instruments are extremely over-priced.

 

Weiart doesn't retail in Saigon. I know that much. The retail market here consists mainly of locals, tourists and expats like myself.

[Verne Andru]

His address is:

 

Tsai Fen Fun

80/9 Cay Tram street ,C5, 11 Ward,Go Vap District

Ho Chi Minh City, 848

Vietnam

 

When I did a trace on the Money Order it was cashed in a bank in Philadelphia. He dragged the thing out so long it was too late to put a negative on his eBay account - which is probably why there are not that many negatives.

 

I was optimistic going in [naive some have said] - live and learn.

[Verne Andru]

Thanks - I'm interested to hear what you find. He identified himself as "Paul" in the emails and claimed that address was his shop/factory. I have no doubt Vietnamese luthiers can build as well as anybody, but guys like this can give you a black-eye just when you're trying to establish credibility on the world market. He was selling under the name Inlaidartist on ebay.

[Etienne Rambert]

Well, I went out to Duong Cay Tram (C.T. Street) today. I couldn't find the place. That doesn't mean it's not there. It just means I couldn't find it.

 

These addresses make no sense. There is a street number, 80, then an alley or side-street number. The side streets here have the same names as the main streets. They just have different numbers.

 

Anyway I found 77 Cay Tram Street. But we found no addresses in the 80's. The next closest building to 77 was numbered 43 or something. I tell you - these addresses may have made sense to the French. But they make no sense to me or to my Vietnamese GF who was driving me around.

 

Cay Tram is not a long street. It's quite short, maybe a mile long. It connects two major Go Vap thoroughfares. There are several side streets named "Cay Tram" running off it. But we could not find any address in the 80's.

 

But it has to be there. They got your money order. So I would not assume that simply because we couldn't find it - that it isn't there.

 

BTW, Go Vap is friggin' huge! If it's not the largest district of Saigon - I don't know what is. I know there are at least a million people in that district.

 

It's big and it's poor. It's mostly residential with some commercial streets. There are some nice new houses going up on the side streets. Some of them are very affluent-looking. But most of Go Vap is very poor.

[Verne Andru]

Interesting and thanks for looking. I cut and pasted that address from his email, and it is where I sent the money order which he cashed, so it's either there or the mailperson is in on it. He did ship a neck, it's just he represented himself as a luthier and no reputable luthier would want to be associated with the quality or lack thereof of that piece. I'm out around $250 and consider it the price I paid for a lesson learned.