Members Stackabones Posted September 11, 2007 Members Share Posted September 11, 2007 Is it when it stops being able to be played acoustically? I know that every guitar, even solid body electrics, has some sort of acoustic presence (even a Les Paul has some acoustic sound), but at what point do you say ... nope, that ain't gonna cut it! Are these still acoustic guitars? Or how about these two? Does the pup make one less of an acoustic? Or what about thin line acoustics? How about electric guitars with piezos in the bridge ... does it make them acoustics? Just curious about what you think ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members drnihili Posted September 11, 2007 Members Share Posted September 11, 2007 Of course the right answer is that there is no clear and distinct line between acoustic and electric guitars, despite the fact that there are clear example of each category. With that caveat, I would say that an acoustic guitar is one in which the sound is substantially generated by the soundboard and sound box. To the extent that large pieces of the body are not required for the sound, the guitar is not acoustic. So if the pickup is picking up the vibration of the soundboard, it's acoustic, but if it's picking up the vibration of the string, then not. Of the ones you've posted, I'd say the bottom two are acoustic, thought the blonde less so than the burst. (assuming there's some second pup in it) I'm thinking the top two are primarily electric, though I'm not exactly sure how they generate their sound - whether the body plays an active role in it. ETA: Or try this approach. If a microphone with sufficient gain and amplification could be used to get the desired sound, it's an acoustic. Otherwise not. If someone play a Les Paul using just a microphone, I guess that would be an acoustic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Svaj Posted September 11, 2007 Members Share Posted September 11, 2007 In my opinion, a real acoustic should be possible to use in front of a small crowd with no electric power. For instance, a teacher shall be able to play for a class of about 20-25 children, without having to bring an amplifier. (Of course, this is also depending on the discipline of the children.) If this requirement is broken down into pieces, it will all be a matter of performed dB.I don't know the average volume level for a std acoustic, but use that value and maybe allow -5dB. -10dB would mean half the volume, and that would probably not be enough. It is of course possible to make recordings even with a disconnected Les Paul, but it is also possible to record the hammering on a powerless Keyboard and that would still not make it to a Piano. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stackabones Posted September 11, 2007 Author Members Share Posted September 11, 2007 In my opinion, a real acoustic should be possible to use in front of a small crowd with no electric power. For instance, a teacher shall be able to play for a class of about 20-25 children, without having to bring an amplifier. (Of course, this is also depending on the discipline of the children.) If this requirement is broken down into pieces, it will all be a matter of performed dB. I don't know the average volume level for a std acoustic, but use that value and maybe allow -5dB. -10dB would mean half the volume, and that would probably not be enough. It is of course possible to make recordings even with a disconnected Les Paul, but it is also possible to record the hammering on a powerless Keyboard and that would still not make it to a Piano. Great first post, Svaj! Volume is an issue, yes. That's why I was also wondering about thinline acoustics ... are they loud enough? Acoustic enough?Loudness can be misleading, too. In a large hall, an acoustic guitar doesn't seem very acoustic next to an "acoustic" violin! Welcome to the forums! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Funderbunk Posted September 11, 2007 Members Share Posted September 11, 2007 My rule would be - it's an acoustic as long as the bridge is resting on a relatively thin top over a hollow body section, instead of on a solid block of wood (or on studs in a solid block of wood). Once you eliminate the air space under the bridge, it could only be a semi-hollow at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dhoenisch Posted September 11, 2007 Members Share Posted September 11, 2007 Loudness can be misleading, too. In a large hall, an acoustic guitar doesn't seem very acoustic next to an "acoustic" violin! I'll have to agree with you on that. Our poor guitar player in our bluegrass band. When playing fast and loud songs such as Foggy Mt. Breakdown, he can only do rhythm. Between the banjo and fiddle, his flatpickin' solo can't be heard (we don't play with mics or anything). Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cripes Posted September 11, 2007 Members Share Posted September 11, 2007 Acoustic is a retronym. I have learned something new today.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustic_guitar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tele like it is Posted September 11, 2007 Members Share Posted September 11, 2007 My rule would be - it's an acoustic as long as the bridge is resting on a relatively thin top over a hollow body section, instead of on a solid block of wood (or on studs in a solid block of wood). Once you eliminate the air space under the bridge, it could only be a semi-hollow at best. In general I agree with that statement. The wood of an acoustic guitar is actually amplifiyng the sound of the plucked strings. Once you take that away it becomes a different sub class of guitar. The ones above seem to be acoustic/electrics. To me an acoustic/electric is more of an electric guitar emulating the sound of an amplified acoustic guitar, which is what the ones pictured above seem to be. I've never been wild about how they sound although for strumming in a live band situation it probably doen't make a difference. For solo work and music that features the acoustic sound I'd stick with a well amplified actual acoustic guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stackabones Posted September 12, 2007 Author Members Share Posted September 12, 2007 Acoustic is a retronym. I have learned something new today.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustic_guitar Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members D For Kate Posted September 12, 2007 Members Share Posted September 12, 2007 okay, a guitar (in protest to the retronymical 'acoustic' term) came to being as a solo instrument, perhaps suited as a vocal accompaniment. therefore its not meant to be in an ensemble, its only fair to not compare a guitar to a violin or a freakin banjo. now that Ive got my definition of the purpose of a guitar out of the way.... A guitar can have pickups and yet be categorically termed as an acoustic guitar. However, if the specific instrument is wholly dependent on the pickup to serve its purpose, then it is not a acoustic guitar. this is how i see it: a proper concert classical guitar performs its duty to fill up a fairly decent hall - for the same purpose, a thinline may need to bbe plugged in. therefore, in relative terms based on its application, the thinline is not an acoustic guitar. on the flipside - an unplugged, conventional dreadnaught loaded with pickups is still an acoustic guitar if if can fill a room, unplugged (it should bloody well could!). however, it is still an bona-fide acoustic guitar if the guitarist has to plug in to perform in a stadium in front of 30,000 choice hunnies and 30,000 ugly guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cripes Posted September 12, 2007 Members Share Posted September 12, 2007 This question was posed some time ago and there was much debate. One can arguably state that an acoustic guitar is an instrument that produces sound without any sort of electronic amplification. Throw in a microphone - on or off the guitar - and the guitar, due to the actual electronically imparted audible downstream signal, loses its purely acoustic status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stackabones Posted September 12, 2007 Author Members Share Posted September 12, 2007 My rule would be - it's an acoustic as long as the bridge is resting on a relatively thin top over a hollow body section, instead of on a solid block of wood (or on studs in a solid block of wood). Once you eliminate the air space under the bridge, it could only be a semi-hollow at best.Hmmm ... that's pretty good.So, the inside of this Godin ...Looks like this ...Thus making it an acoustic, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members d03nut Posted September 12, 2007 Members Share Posted September 12, 2007 If it gets you "laid"....it's not an acoustic..... That said, for me, if it's loud enough "au naturel" to accompany my singing.......acoustic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stackabones Posted September 12, 2007 Author Members Share Posted September 12, 2007 If it gets you "laid"....it's not an acoustic..... I guess I haven't been playing acoustic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarist21 Posted September 12, 2007 Members Share Posted September 12, 2007 Looks like this ... Thus making it an acoustic, no? I would say no because I'm squarely in the camp of "If you have to plug it in to hear it more than a little bit it isn't an acoustic." Which would make any hollowbody jazz boxes acoustic but would not make, say, the Michael Kelly thing an acoustic.Ellen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hudman Posted September 12, 2007 Members Share Posted September 12, 2007 Easy. If you need an amp to be heard, you don't have an acoustic. I think the 20-25 kids example above was a great benchmark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarist21 Posted September 12, 2007 Members Share Posted September 12, 2007 Easy. If you need an amp to be heard, you don't have an acoustic. Exactly. Ellen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarcapo Posted September 12, 2007 Members Share Posted September 12, 2007 Semantics is really boring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members D For Kate Posted September 12, 2007 Members Share Posted September 12, 2007 Easy.If you need an amp to be heard, you don't have an acoustic. What if I have to plug in my dreadnaught to perform for a world tour in stadiums in front of 30,000 choice hunnies and 30,000 ugly guys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cripes Posted September 12, 2007 Members Share Posted September 12, 2007 What if I have to plug in my dreadnaught to perform for a world tour in stadiums in front of 30,000 choice hunnies and 30,000 ugly guys? I'm guessing biker conventions so you'd better not even show up with some sissy acoustic guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Krash Posted September 12, 2007 Members Share Posted September 12, 2007 An acoustic produces sound acoustically - the string vibrations drive the top. An electric produces sound electronically - the strings vibrate thru a magnetic field, inducing a current in the pickup coils. Two completely different processes. How the sound is delivered to the audience (i.e., using a mic or amp) doesn't change this basic difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hudman Posted September 12, 2007 Members Share Posted September 12, 2007 I checked out a couple online retailers. Here's what I discovered: Hollowbodies and Semi-hollowbodies are usually lumped together. Then you have: Solid body electrics (6 &12) Hybrid or specialized guitars (acoustic simulators / extended range / travel guitars / 7 string guitars / double neck guitars, etc). Acoustics (6 & 12) and acoustics (6&12) with built in pickup(s). Excellent topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hudman Posted September 12, 2007 Members Share Posted September 12, 2007 An acoustic produces sound acoustically - the string vibrations drive the top. An electric produces sound electronically - the strings vibrate thru a magnetic field, inducing a current in the pickup coils. Two completely different processes. How the sound is delivered to the audience (i.e., using a mic or amp) doesn't change this basic difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fingerpicker Posted September 12, 2007 Members Share Posted September 12, 2007 Well you have to say "does it matter?" The instrument is a tool to convey some message. The rest is you. That said, you can lump most of the thinlines, like the Michael Kelly, as a Hybrid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members drnihili Posted September 12, 2007 Members Share Posted September 12, 2007 My rule would be - it's an acoustic as long as the bridge is resting on a relatively thin top over a hollow body section, instead of on a solid block of wood (or on studs in a solid block of wood). Once you eliminate the air space under the bridge, it could only be a semi-hollow at best. If I understand the construction correctly, this would entail that spider bridge resonators are not acoustic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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