Guitar test. A/B'ing the different woods...

[gitmo]

I don't see any reason why I can't run a simple A/B test with my T-160 & T-170 this weekend other than not receiving my Tusq saddle by tomorrow. The guitars are identical with the exception of the side and back wood. I would like to try a soft bone saddle, a hard bone saddle and a Tusq saddle in both. I'll use Audacity and my Blue Snowball mic.

 

If I get the Tusq saddle tomorrow and perform the test, other than using the same microphone at the same height and distance from the guitar in the same location in the room any other reasonable controls? Should I set the guitars on a wooden chair instead of in my lap for instance. Do you think just resting the end of the lower bout on my thigh, away from my gu.......mid-section will distort the different resonances of the woods?

 

Suggestions?

[gitnoob]

So you plan to record 6 samples? 3 of each guitar for each of the 3 saddles?

 

I would add one more run. For samples 7 and 8, repeat samples 1 and 2. That will show the effect of stretching out the strings after 4 saddle changes.

 

Also, try to ensure that the saddles are all the same height if you're trying to demonstrate tone differences.

[Hudman]

The same exact model guitars rarely sound exactly the same.

 

I'm not sure what your test will prove.

[gitmo]

 

So you plan to record 6 samples? 3 of each guitar for each of the 3 saddles? I would add one more run. For samples 7 and 8, repeat samples 1 and 2. That will show the effect of stretching out the strings after 4 saddle changes. Also, try to ensure that the saddles are all the same height if you're trying to demonstrate tone differences.

 

 

I may do 12 runs. The guitars shipped with D'Addarios. I think I'll do 3 each with the old strings, get the setups perfect, change to new D'Addarios and then work my way throught the saddles again finishing up with the saddle I plan to keep on the guitars final setup.

[gitmo]

 

I'm not sure what your test will prove.

 

 

At the very least it will prove that I have Waaaay too much time on my hands.

 

Other than that, let's see.

[Greg.Coal]

Suggestions?

 

 

I think it's great of you to make this effort. However ....

 

I would not be surprised if you found that your recordings did not reveal the differences you thought you could hear while making them. It would take a great mic placed just right to detect saddle composition differences - unless you really think they're that dramatic. The wood variable has a better chance unless the bottlenecks to the recorded tone are too great to allow for the sensitivity required for the task.

 

Suggestion: play as you would normally play: if you had to place it in a special bracket to eliminate body contributions you would be attaining some precision but it would lose real world application. In fact, I would say that a diff in tone wood is also felt while paying. That's important to me.

 

Someone mentioned string stretching: consider this, then, a test of string stretching and its effect on tone. What if there's no effect? We learned something. Good luck. Oh, I would also let these guitars get played in a couple months, whatever all effects that includes.

 

Greg

[gitmo]

 

I would not be surprised if you found that your recordings did not reveal the differences you thought you could hear while making them. It would take a great mic placed just right to detect saddle composition differences - unless you really think they're that dramatic. The wood variable has a better chance unless the bottlenecks to the recorded tone are too great to allow for the sensitivity required for the task. Suggestion: play as you would normally play: if you had to place it in a special bracket to eliminate body contributions you would be attaining some precision but it would lose real world application. Someone mentioned string stretching: consider this Greg

 

 

I think I'm going to rest it on my thigh and keep everything else as consistent as possible.

 

I may try a string stretch test by starting with the saddle I want to end up with first after changing to a new set of strings, and rotate all the way through the group ending up with the one I keep as the final test, a second for that saddle with the new strings.

[Opa John]

At the very least it will prove that I have Waaaay too much time on my hands.

 

 

Yeah......this is what I was thinking too. If nothing else it'll keep you off the streets for a couple hours. (just kidding.....go for it.)

[Freeman Keller]

Gitmo, I'm really looking forward to this. When I did the String and Pin tests here was my protocol -

I tied a piece of string to my SM57 and used that to place the mic the same distance from the guitar - in each case aiming it at the 12th fret. I left all the settings on the recorder completely flat and didn't change the gain. Tuned before each session with a StoboFlip.

I identified each test at the beginning "Martin D18, Strings #1, day 3", then played the same sequence of notes and chords. I chose to play each string open, a couple of big fat cowboy chords all with both pick and flesh and nails. I used the same pick (and nails LOL). I tried to pick with the same force and speed. If you want to add some little riffs I think that would be good - I would suggest that you use the same ones and try to showcase the guitars more than your playing.

The pin test was done in one long rainy day. Five different recordings in one guitar with the same strings, then another guitar with the same gauge and composition strings. I simply recorded the wav files and published them as mp3's.

For the string test I recorded each set of strings as soon as I put them on, then tried to play that guitar at least 1-2 hours per day for the next three days, then re-recorded it. That was an attempt to verify that "X strings go dead after a couple of days...." That test took several weeks, but since things were held constant I think it is valid.

I found the graphical display in Audacity very helpful for looking at intensity and duration of single notes. You can start two or three Audacity sessions and compare one note from each for say a bone vs plastic vs brass pin - very interesting. "Tone" is objective, "sustain" can be measured.

I would suggest posting the clips "blind" - let us discuss them before you tell us which is rose, which is hog. I'll also offer to archive the results at the Annex for future reference - this could be a very valuable study.

I'll add at two years ago I attended the GAL conference and they had a "Listening Session" for steel, nylon and bass guitars built by luthiers in attendence. I got to hear Mark Swanson play 35 hand built guitars in exactly the same way, then the builder describe the guitar - wood, bracing, finish, her philosophy - a totally amazing session. I had taken two of my guitars to the conference but couldn't bring myself to let Mark play them - now I'm sorry I didn't.

Anyway, really looking forward and thanks for taking the effort.

[gitmo]

 

Gitmo, I'm really looking forward to this. When I did the String and Pin tests here was my protocol - I tied a piece of string to my SM57 and used that to place the mic the same distance from the guitar - in each case aiming it at the 12th fret. I left all the settings on the recorder completely flat and didn't change the gain. Tuned before each session with a StoboFlip. I identified each test at the beginning "Martin D18, Strings #1, day 3", then played the same sequence of notes and chords. I chose to play each string open, a couple of big fat cowboy chords all with both pick and flesh and nails. I used the same pick (and nails LOL). I tried to pick with the same force and speed. If you want to add some little riffs I think that would be good - I would suggest that you use the same ones and try to showcase the guitars more than your playing. The pin test was done in one long rainy day. Five different recordings in one guitar with the same strings, then another guitar with the same gauge and composition strings. I simply recorded the wav files and published them as mp3's. For the string test I recorded each set of strings as soon as I put them on, then tried to play that guitar at least 1-2 hours per day for the next three days, then re-recorded it. That was an attempt to verify that "X strings go dead after a couple of days...." That test took several weeks, but since things were held constant I think it is valid. I found the graphical display in Audacity very helpful for looking at intensity and duration of single notes. You can start two or three Audacity sessions and compare one note from each for say a bone vs plastic vs brass pin - very interesting. "Tone" is objective, "sustain" can be measured. I would suggest posting the clips "blind" - let us discuss them before you tell us which is rose, which is hog. I'll also offer to archive the results at the Annex for future reference - this could be a very valuable study. I'll add at two years ago I attended the GAL conference and they had a "Listening Session" for steel, nylon and bass guitars built by luthiers in attendence. I got to hear Mark Swanson play 35 hand built guitars in exactly the same way, then the builder describe the guitar - wood, bracing, finish, her philosophy - a totally amazing session. I had taken two of my guitars to the conference but couldn't bring myself to let Mark play them - now I'm sorry I didn't. Anyway, really looking forward and thanks for taking the effort.

 

 

Freeman,

 

The only microphone I have at my house is a USB Blue Snowball. I have a stand for it so that should help to keep the distance consistent. As mentioned, I will use Audacity so the visual waveform will be available for viewing. I'll take suggestions on the mic. setting, cardioid or omnidirectional. I'm thinking omnidirectional to pull in the most sound, I can elimate most external sounds.

 

I want to conclude it in one day so I'm just going to test saddles and probably a new set of strings. I'll note all changes precisely and if the test is deemed to be of value it will become public domain.

 

I have a strap button on the lower bout but not on the neck. I want to isolate the body as a control but haven't come to a conclusion as to how I'm going to do it.

 

I'm going to use the same pick with two series of open string strums and then three chords. I'll try to be consistent with the strum but that will be a variable.

 

Definately blind post for discussion.

 

Lon

[Freeman Keller]

Here is an A/B/C/D test that is kind of interesting

http://pickinparlor.nationalguitar.com/_NRP-vs-Triolian-Tone-Comparison/video/1102019/51645.html

and I wish that I could find the one that was posted on UMGF a couple of years ago between a D18, D18GE and D18A. Convinced me that hide makes a difference.

[gitmo]

Tusq saddle has arrived, the test is on!

[gitmo]

The Tusq saddle that came today is a Martin 3/32" width. It is too thin for the Silvercreek slot; I thought this was a Martin copy?

 

The bone saddle that came with it is perfectly snug at .120, the Tusq Martin saddle is .110.

 

I have another new Tusq saddle that is compensated and measures .130 so I'll spend some time thinning and lowering it and start with the recording. I also have two identical sets of D'Addario PB lights for a string change.